"Can you fly a drone over railroad tracks?"

[MA2 317]

It is 100% legal to fly over railroad tracks. Period. End of story. The FAA (who controls the airspace) does not consider railroads Critical Infrastructure.

Thank you for the information.

Keep rockin' Vic.

 

[Dbez1]

If you have questions like this, why not go to the horse’s mouth and email [email protected]. I would also trust the advice of a few on this forum that really do know, unlike the opinions of others like myself.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

I've addressed this article before.

It's pure garbage. I would use stronger language, but it's unadvisable in this forum.

It is 100% legal to fly over railroad tracks. Period. End of story. The FAA (who controls the airspace) does not consider railroads Critical Infrastructure. There are some railroad badged authorities who REALLY like their jobs and would do it for free if you gave them two badges and a gun.

And before anyone goes off on me again about being unfair to them, this is directly from someone who used to fly 107 ops for BNSF. This is NOT an indictment of all RR security.

As long as you're obeying FAA regulations (airspace, not over people, etc.), it is 100% legal to fly there. They can tell you whatever they want, but it's up to you if you want to listen to them or not.

So know the rules, and be prepared to stand your ground. It's 100% up to you to decide if you want to land or not unless you're flying from their property. If you're on their property, you're under their rules. And odds are you're trespassing. So don't fly from their property.

On one of my trips to Mexico I asked my BNSF drone pilot friend about their Barstow yard. He said they guy there isn't very friendly, but if he says anything, tell him you know the rules and you're not violating them. In that case, he'll leave you alone. And that isn't uncommon.

If I was afraid of what they may do, I wouldn't have been able to shoot these:

Vic Moss on Instagram: "BNSF rail yard. #thedroneu #bhdronecontest"

43 likes, 1 comments - vicmossphotography on November 17, 2018: "BNSF rail yard. #thedroneu #bhdronecontest".

www.instagram.com

Vic, If I remember correctly, when discussing Critical Infrastructures, the FAA website actually listed specific locations that were considered to be a critical infrastructure. i.e. It named specific dams vs all dams. And the same for other areas. Heading out the door, so I don't have times to research it now. But maybe you know right where to go and point to it for the group.

 

[Vic Moss]

Vic, If I remember correctly, when discussing Critical Infrastructures, the FAA website actually listed specific locations that were considered to be a critical infrastructure. i.e. It named specific dams vs all dams. And the same for other areas. Heading out the door, so I don't have times to research it now. But maybe you know right where to go and point to it for the group.

If it's not listed on this map (FAA's ArcGIS map), there are no standing airspace restriction.

ArcGIS Web Application

www.arcgis.com

But always check tfr.faa.gov as well.

 

[RedBaron2]

If you have questions like this, why not go to the horse’s mouth and email [email protected]. I would also trust the advice of a few on this forum that really do know, unlike the opinions of others like myself.

Great suggestion Dbez1. Just sent an inquiry to [email protected].
I have been a long-time, amateur rail photographer. As you know, drone photography adds a new dimension when you can include more scenery. Thank you.

 

[Vic Moss]

If you have questions like this, why not go to the horse’s mouth and email [email protected]. I would also trust the advice of a few on this forum that really do know, unlike the opinions of others like myself.

Great group of guys there. It seems Steve always answers my questions. And usually has a smart aleck comment to go along with it. All in fun of course. Last week he answered one of my emails with "Can I give you a quick call". So they really do want to help drone owners. That's their job.

Thanks for sharing that email. The FAA UAS Support Center is a very under utilized FAA resource. They also have a phone number, 844 FLY MY UA (844-359-6982)

 

[Dbez1]

Great group of guys there. It seems Steve always answers my questions. And usually has a smart aleck comment to go along with it. All in fun of course. Last week he answered one of my emails with "Can I give you a quick call". So they really do want to help drone owners. That's their job.

Thanks for sharing that email. The FAA UAS Support Center is a very under utilized FAA resource. They also have a phone number, 844 FLY MY UA (844-359-6982)

Vic, thanks for the phone number, somehow I’d lost it. Steve once told me that most of the people working for the UASHelp are UA pilots themselves.

 

[Vic Moss]

Vic, thanks for the phone number, somehow I’d lost it. Steve once told me that most of the people working for the UASHelp are UA pilots themselves.

Yep, they are.

 

[Robert Prior]

Once I receive the railroad's response, I will share that information in this post.

Looking forward to that.

Reading comments above, it appears that part of the confusion may stem from people's differing interpretations of "certain critical infrastructure". To someone interpreting that as meaning almost all critical infrastructure, that would mean you couldn't legally cross a highway!

 

[RedBaron2]

Great suggestion Dbez1. Just sent an inquiry to [email protected].
I have been a long-time, amateur rail photographer. As you know, drone photography adds a new dimension when you can include more scenery. Thank you.

THE FAA RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED EARLIER TODAY:

Ron

Let me provide a few quick observations and then some general guidance.

Regarding the comments from the BNSF employee:

• There is no such thing as a "federal railway." BNSF is a commercial enterprise
• Shooting at a drone is a violation of 18 US Code § 32; punishable by 20 years imprisonment and/or a fine of $250,000
• BNSF has no authority over the US National Airspace System; that is the exclusive purview of the FAA
• BNSF does have the authority to restrict/prohibit drone operations on their property

As a recreational flyer you are regulated by § 44809 The Exception for Limited Recreational Ops. The Exception stipulates you must operate "in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization’s (CBO) set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the FAA."

Currently, since there are no formally FAA-recognized CBOs, the FAA provides interim safety & operating guidelines in Advisory Circular (AC) 91-57B (attached). The AC does not specifically address operating over moving vehicles or infrastructure such as rail yards. However, the AC does state, "The FAA assumes owners and operators of unmanned aircraft are generally concerned about safety and willing to exercise good judgment when flying their aircraft."

The AC goes on to state, "...recreational flyers must always remain aware that any operations endangering the safety of the NAS (particularly careless or reckless operations, those endangering persons or property, and/or those that interfere with or fail to give way to any manned aircraft) will be subject to FAA compliance action."

xxxxx

FAA UAS Support Center 844 FLY MY UA | 844-359-xxxx Send us your questions! Stay current on all things drone Learn about TRUST

 

[Vic Moss]

THE FAA RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED EARLIER TODAY:

Ron

Let me provide a few quick observations and then some general guidance.

Regarding the comments from the BNSF employee:

• There is no such thing as a "federal railway." BNSF is a commercial enterprise
• Shooting at a drone is a violation of 18 US Code § 32; punishable by 20 years imprisonment and/or a fine of $250,000
• BNSF has no authority over the US National Airspace System; that is the exclusive purview of the FAA
• BNSF does have the authority to restrict/prohibit drone operations on their property

As a recreational flyer you are regulated by § 44809 The Exception for Limited Recreational Ops. The Exception stipulates you must operate "in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization’s (CBO) set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the FAA."

Currently, since there are no formally FAA-recognized CBOs, the FAA provides interim safety & operating guidelines in Advisory Circular (AC) 91-57B (attached). The AC does not specifically address operating over moving vehicles or infrastructure such as rail yards. However, the AC does state, "The FAA assumes owners and operators of unmanned aircraft are generally concerned about safety and willing to exercise good judgment when flying their aircraft."

The AC goes on to state, "...recreational flyers must always remain aware that any operations endangering the safety of the NAS (particularly careless or reckless operations, those endangering persons or property, and/or those that interfere with or fail to give way to any manned aircraft) will be subject to FAA compliance action."

xxxxx

FAA UAS Support Center 844 FLY MY UA | 844-359-xxxx Send us your questions! Stay current on all things drone Learn about TRUST

That's a good answer, and straight from the horse's mouth.

Sounds like a Steve answer.

 

[DoomMeister]

THE FAA RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED EARLIER TODAY:

Ron

Let me provide a few quick observations and then some general guidance.

Regarding the comments from the BNSF employee:

• There is no such thing as a "federal railway." BNSF is a commercial enterprise
• Shooting at a drone is a violation of 18 US Code § 32; punishable by 20 years imprisonment and/or a fine of $250,000
• BNSF has no authority over the US National Airspace System; that is the exclusive purview of the FAA
• BNSF does have the authority to restrict/prohibit drone operations on their property

As a recreational flyer you are regulated by § 44809 The Exception for Limited Recreational Ops. The Exception stipulates you must operate "in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization’s (CBO) set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the FAA."

Currently, since there are no formally FAA-recognized CBOs, the FAA provides interim safety & operating guidelines in Advisory Circular (AC) 91-57B (attached). The AC does not specifically address operating over moving vehicles or infrastructure such as rail yards. However, the AC does state, "The FAA assumes owners and operators of unmanned aircraft are generally concerned about safety and willing to exercise good judgment when flying their aircraft."

The AC goes on to state, "...recreational flyers must always remain aware that any operations endangering the safety of the NAS (particularly careless or reckless operations, those endangering persons or property, and/or those that interfere with or fail to give way to any manned aircraft) will be subject to FAA compliance action."

xxxxx

FAA UAS Support Center 844 FLY MY UA | 844-359-xxxx Send us your questions! Stay current on all things drone Learn about TRUST

Thank you for sharing!

 

[RedBaron2]

That's a good answer, and straight from the horse's mouth.

Sounds like a Steve answer.

Hmmmm. Thanks Vic.

 

[tlyons]

This is a follow-up to my recent encounter with an apparent XXXX employee. I was ordered to land immediately...

Are there dozens or hundreds of basically the same thread? All basically, "A bully said he/she was in charge and ordered me to do something." What would you do if they told you to give them $5? or hand over your car keys? Not from any legit authority but just because they wanted it?

I propose all these threads be answered the same way, at least for the USA.

1. We all agree the law is the law and in these cases the only opinion that matters (legally) once in the air is the FAA:

Under 49 U.S. Code § 40103, "The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States" and U.S. citizens have "a public right of transit through the navigable airspace."[49] The FAA is invested with the authority to control traffic in navigable airspace and create operational and safety regulations on aircraft in navigable airspace. According to the FAA, "[a] navigable airspace free from inconsistent state and local restrictions is essential to the maintenance of a safe and sound air transportation system."[50]: 2  With respect to navigable airspace and the aircraft operating in that airspace, federal regulations have preempted the field and the ability of state and local laws to regulate use of UAVs is limited.[50]: 2–3 

2. We all agree to only cite federal .gov web sites as sources of info for rules while in flight.

3. We all agree anyone who owns the land can restrict taking off and landing however they please. For public property, we all remember the great contribution of the US to world history is that only written laws count. If the community doesn't write a law, the local bullies don't get to write their own in their heads.

The only real discussion is how to deal with bullies; and how to understand Federal and local laws. We owe to our community and those who come after us to not passively allow every bully whether it be security guard, local police, self appointed expert or loud mouth to takes our rights away consistent with a prudent view of personal safety.

 

[Dynamic Learning Machine]

That’s how ya do it! Nice Vic Moss.

 

[christangey]

There are a lot of inaccurate statements in that linked article starting with this statement:

"The airspace refers to the air available for aircraft to fly in, and it is subject to the jurisdiction of a particular country. The airspace has two categories, the "Uncontrolled Airspace," this is the airspace 400 feet from the ground. The other category is the "Controlled Airspace," the airspace above 400 feet from the ground.

The controlled airspace is regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration, while the uncontrolled airspace as the name implies is not regulated, but different states and areas have regulations that control the uncontrolled airspace."

The FAA is the regulatory agency for all national the airspace both above and below 400' and local government agencies cannot regulate that airspace. They can forbid you from launching/landing/controlling your aircraft for areas under their jurisdiction but not the airspace above it.

The author appears to have done at least some homework on the topic and has some valid points within the article but seems to be lacking clue when it comes to airspace jurisdiction which is entirely assigned to the FAA by congress.

You have it absolutely correct and the situation is identical in Australia with CASA, and possibly in the UK with CAA. However before we even get to laws and regulations the pilot has to ask themseves: "is this a safe act, for me and everyone else?" Flying above a railway track at 100 feet with no train, fine, flying 2 feet above a track with a train coming? Stupid and illegal.

 

[AlanL]

You have it absolutely correct and the situation is identical in Australia with CASA, and possibly in the UK with CAA. However before we even get to laws and regulations the pilot has to ask themseves: "is this a safe act, for me and everyone else?" Flying above a railway track at 100 feet with no train, fine, flying 2 feet above a track with a train coming? Stupid and illegal.

Not sure I'd want to be flying at 100' above a train to begin with - there is a lot of turbulence that accompanies a moving train. They have a lot of inertia - we don't <queue up sound of splattering bug>

 

[Vic Moss]

Not sure I'd want to be flying at 100' above a train to begin with - there is a lot of turbulence that accompanies a moving train. They have a lot of inertia - we don't <queue up sound of splattering bug>

There would be little to no turbulence at 100' above a train.

 

[netling]

I was about to say, train tracks aren’t federal! If they were, where do I get my permit to start driving on them! ;-).

I see a lot of people make stuff up in their heads, especially “security guards” which is always funny because when the real police comes and I start quoting the actual laws, ol’rent a cop get puts in his place and sent home.

Know the truth, know the laws and BS your way from there. ;-) JK!

 

[AlanL]

There would be little to no turbulence at 100' above a train.

Out of curiosity how far out does the turbulence from a moving train extend? I have lots of opportunities to shoot images of trains in the Columbia River Gorge but since I was mostly shooting the overall scene with a train in it I wasn't all that close to the train itself.