Flying with line of sight

[Jaysjob]

Agree with you generally but as long as this is the pilot qualification for most drone users the FAA will keep things contained. At least you're not in the dictatorship of Canada.

Alan. I think you better check that link fast. It's not going to the right image.

 

[AlanTheBeast]

Alan. I think you better check that link fast. It's not going to the right image.

It most definitely is.

 

[msinger]

No one is saying do what you feel like. The FAA guidelines do NOT say "community based ORGANIZATION" Organization being the key word here. It says "community based safety guidelines".

If you're looking for a direct quote, you should pull it directly from Public Law 112-95, Section 336. Here's exactly what it states:

"the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization"

 

[Jaysjob]

It most definitely is.

Credit card?

 

[AyeYo]

Well, the FAA has the final say, but personally I think that they are behind the times and perhaps still living in an age when drones didn't have high-quality air-to-ground video links and the only way to gain situational awareness of what one's drone is doing is by visually sighting it in the sky. I think that a strong argument can be made that an operator has better situational awareness of their drone by looking down at their controller and the in-flight video display on their smartphone than looking up and spotting the drone in the sky.

That's not it at all. If the drone is out of your line of sight, then you have no idea what manned aircraft might be approaching it.

 

[Jaysjob]

Credit card?

Ah. A joke! I haven't seen one of those in awhile. Sorry for the mistake. [emoji23]

 

[AyeYo]

No one is saying do what you feel like. The FAA guidelines do NOT say "community based ORGANIZATION" Organization being the key word here. It says "community based safety guidelines". This is a direct quote. Nowhere does it say you have to follow any organizational guidelines.

Why does it matter? What's the effective difference? What set of community based guidelines are you following in lieu of the FAA guidelines?

 

[msinger]

What set of community based guidelines are you following in lieu of the FAA guidelines?

Can you show us where you're seeing it's okay to follow Public Law 112-95, Section 336 OR a set of community-based guidelines?

 

[Jaysjob]

If you're looking for a direct quote, you should pull it directly from Public Law 112-95, Section 336. Here's exactly what it states:

"the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization"

Is this for hobby or recreational fliers?

 

[msinger]

It's for hobby fliers.

 

[Andrew F]

That's not it at all. If the drone is out of your line of sight, then you have no idea what manned aircraft might be approaching it.

That's true, but if you are below the 400 feet and not in a restricted area, then you theoretically shouldn't have to worry about a manned flight. Having said that, I don't fly out of line of sight. But I can see his point. I personally prefer to look up and down and up and down . . . but I and EVERYONE take their eyes off of their bird. And in that instant, it can instantly disappear because of how small it is. Fortunately my kids can see it much better than I can. It's great when you have a spotter!

 

[AyeYo]

Can you show us where you're seeing it's okay to follow Public Law 112-95, Section 336 OR a set of community-based guidelines?

It's right in the wording you quoted if you take it in context with what is said before it:

(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;[/QUOTE]

i.e. - if you are NOT following the rules of a community-based organization you are NOT exempt from FAA sUAS rules... which are the rules listed on the registration site or the Part 107 rules.

 

[Andrew F]

That's true, but if you are below the 400 feet and not in a restricted area, then you theoretically shouldn't have to worry about a manned flight. Having said that, I don't fly out of line of sight. But I can see his point. I personally prefer to look up and down and up and down . . . but I and EVERYONE take their eyes off of their bird. And in that instant, it can instantly disappear because of how small it is. Fortunately my kids can see it much better than I can. It's great when you have a spotter!

Also, whenever I hear the thump-thump of a helicopter, I DIVE for cover (drop my elevation) because I have personally witnessed many helicopters ignoring their 500 foot floor - especially near transition zones (steep hills and mountains) where they fail to adjust their elevation in a timely manner.

 

[msinger]

if you are NOT following the rules of a community-based organization you are NOT exempt from FAA sUAS rules... which are the rules listed on the registration site or the Part 107 rules.

No hobby fliers are exempt from Public Law 112-95, Section 336 (including AMA members). I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly certain you cannot pick and choose which parts of that law you want to follow. Part 107 doesn't apply here since we're talking about hobbyists.

 

[iajetpilot]

I don't think helicopters have the same 500ft requirements that airplanes do especially over remote areas. Another altitude requirement for manned aircraft is the ability to make a safe landing should a power unit fail. That altitude is a lot different for a helicopter than it is for an airplane.

 

[AyeYo]

No hobby fliers are exempt from Public Law 112-95, Section 336 (including AMA members). I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly certain you cannot pick and choose which parts of that law you want to follow. Part 107 doesn't apply here since we're talking about hobbyists.

I didn't say anyone was exempt from section 336. Section 336 doesn't contain any regulations. It's a clarification of who is excluded from FAA regulations as a hobbyist operating a "model aircraft".

As I said before, what Section 336 means is that if you're not operating within a set of community guidelines, you're no longer operating a "model aircraft" as a "hobbyist" - you're outside of Section 336 and therefore fall under the FAA's scope of regulation. If you're flying out of line of sight ((2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and) you're not operating as a hobbyist flying a model aircraft because you're outside of the Section 336 definitions.

So what happens to you then?

Part 107 does not apply to model aircraft that satisfy all of the criteria specified in section 336 of Public Law 112-95. • The rule codifies the FAA’s enforcement authority in part 101 by prohibiting model aircraft operators from endangering the safety of the NAS

Part 107 has nothing to do with operating commercially. Operating commercial is simply ONE OF the many ways you can fall outside of Section 336 ((3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes). Part 107 regulates ALL sUAS that do not fall under Section 336.

 

[Strafe1]

It's right in the wording you quoted if you take it in context with what is said before it:



i.e. - if you are NOT following the rules of a community-based organization you are NOT exempt from FAA sUAS rules... which are the rules listed on the registration site or the Part 107 rules.

I think you're misunderstanding this. What you quoted from the Public Law actually means is that the FAA cannot make any new laws regarding recreational flying in regards to sUAS's. Existing laws remain in effect.
The FAA regulations incorporate community based safety guidelines, so it's not an either or situation.
So, for the hobbyist, the FAA basically requires flying BVLOS. There are sUAS weight restrictions. Flying at night is allowed. Flying over 400' is allowed. Informing airports of your intent to fly if within 5 miles is required.
If one were to use the AMA safety guidelines as a further set of safety precautions, then no flying over 400' within 3 miles of an airport, no flying over groups of people, etc, are the major points.

 

[AyeYo]

I think you're misunderstanding this. What you quoted from the Public Law is that the FAA cannot make any new laws regarding recreational flying in regards to sUAS's. Existing laws remain in effect.
The FAA regulations incorporate community based safety guidelines, so it's not an either or situation.

I'm just reading what's written in the actual law. Section 336 is about who is exempt from FAA regulation: hobbyists flying model aircraft - it then goes on to define what they mean by that. It's clear as crystal. It's not what people want to hear, but it couldn't be more black/white.

 

[msinger]

AyeYo, instead of trying to restate what you think Public Law 112-95, Section 336 means, it would be easiest just to refer to the summary here. It's an accurate summary of Public Law 112-95, Section 336. Unless someone has a waiver in hand, all hobbyists must follow everything in that table if they wish to operate under US law.

 

[Strafe1]

I'm just reading what's written in the actual law. Section 336 is about who is exempt from FAA regulation: hobbyists flying model aircraft - it then goes on to define what they mean by that. It's clear as crystal. It's not what people want to hear, but it couldn't be more black/white.

It doesn't say that. In black and white. Where does it say your exempt?