Harassed in PA

[rjwmorrell]

If you are being harassed by the same neighbor. I would remind the Police what you are doing is perfectly legal and your neighbors calling the police on you( more than once) is a misuse of public service, and is a crime.
I would also nicely remind the Police dept. -That if they continue to waste manpower on this neighbors repeated and unnecessary calls They MUST go to court and show cause. Otherwise you would prefer to fly alone BUT don't forget to thank them for their Service.

While it may be true that OP is flying completely legally, the police receiving a report of unlawful drone activity would of course be a reason to investigate. This is the minimum expectation of police when reporting something that might potentially be u lawful.

I'm not a lawyer, and not particularly versed in US law, but my understanding is that anything more than a simple conversation requires probable cause. And while speaking to police is generally optional in most circumstances, it certainly isn't helpful to simply refuse to speak entirely. Polite limited cooperation ("I wish I could help you officer, I was not the drone pilot who flew in/near that person's property, I am aware of the FAA rules and have only flown lawfully") is probably wise, similar to your suggestion.

I don't fault the police, they're required to follow up. OP might be frustrated but they're in the right and I'm not sure what further action would assist them.

 

[Cafguy]

Your just not trying very hard

Try standing there while they're arresting someone for which you're entirely uninvolved, screaming "pig" at them, going out of your way to make it clear you're videotaping their every move, holding a sign that says, "racist pig" on one side, "Defund the Police" on the other... do I need to go on?

You don't get cited because what you think is irritating on your part is a relaxing day of minor citizen encounters to the cops.

Just reading your postings here, I'm sure you dont have what it takes to push an LEO to the point of "fed up".

I know i don't. I just couldn't do and say the things necessary, and live with myself.

YA no way- Im a yes sir officer! kinda guy but the police around here are 98% very cool, BUT In your scenario I could see myself in cuffs and maybe a slip and fall ( wink wink) injury or two.

 

[GFields]

Folks, stay on topic and stay civil. Thanks

 

[shb]

It seems I have been hovering at some ones window and even entered their barn with my drone.

The way you phrased it sounds almost like you did do it. You should say you've been accused of doing this. If you're not guilty, just be honest with the police, and don't worry about it.

 

[Cafguy]

In my neck of the woods you cannot hover at someones window thats a big no-no and you will be taking a ride for Harassment. BUT It is not necessarily illegal for your drone to enter a barn. I would like to know how they would arrest ones Drone for trespassing!

 

[orionshooter]

Law Enforcement Officers cannot ARREST anyone in the United States of America just because the officer(s) are 'fed up'... that's ludicrous. And why would you not talk to them or even offer to show them your logs? You clamming up and starting to quote constitutional rights would definitely raise suspicion.

No the police cannot arrest for “felony fed upness” - but they do. Such an arrest is commonly known in the officers locker room as POP - pissing off the police. I know, I spent a career in that locker room.

Then I spent another career as a criminal defense lawyer and offer this advice.
- Be polite and gracious but firm.
- Do NOT ever offer up evidence beyond a general denial.
- Ask them for evidence - like a photo of the offending drone
- Do NOT consent to a search of any kind
- Keep all conversations outside of your home.
- Never have a conversation with LE without an audio recorder in hand. An audio recorder is an essential piece of equipment for your flight bag. (It’s a devastating weapon against Kens and Karens too). You can use your mobile phone for this purpose.

WARNING: PA is one of the few remaining two party consent states. This means it is unlawful to record a private conversation without the knowledge and consent of the participants. (As a side note, I would argue that a conversation initiated by a police officer in the performance of his duties is not private but I suggest not taking the chance). Instead, politely inform the officer of your intention to record the conversation. This will tactfully put the officer on notice that a POP or any other unsubstantiated charge or will end very badly.

Recorders are like rattlesnakes - policemen fear and hate them but give them great respect and wide deference.

Fly safe.

 

[MARK (LI)]

In my neck of the woods you cannot hover at someones window thats a big no-no and you will be taking a ride for Harassment. BUT It is not necessarily illegal for your drone to enter a barn. I would like to know how they would arrest ones Drone for trespassing!

Flying above someone's barn would be OK...whether the property owner likes it or not....flying inside? No way legal, forget about the part about flying BVLOS .....as far as locking up the drone? C'mon ...but they can take action against whoever was operating that drone.

 

[Cafguy]

"No the police cannot arrest for “felony fed upness” - but they do. Such an arrest is commonly known in the officers locker room as POP - pissing off the police. I know, I spent a career in that locker room."

Excuse me! -BUT any police officer that would arrest someone because that person made that officer angry -Should have NEVER been a police officer in the first place, and should be put in prison.
Police officers ( I have a few in my family) are public servants, not- dictorial representatives of some obscure idea they may have of freedom.
ANY police officer making these types of arrest should be arrested themselves and sent away.
Of Coarse- you want to be polite, but you have the same rights while you are being questioned as you always had.
Your argument about recording the police is correct. Incidents involving the police are Public record , and you can record all day. any officer telling you different is in the same category as the arresting officer above.
Police officers today are monitored 24 hrs a day with body cams. These cameras were placed in the police Depts. to reduce the huge number of lawsuits brought about by people being arrested by these unprofessional angry Police officers.

 

[umanbean]

When I said that about being arrested because the officer was fed up I guess I was thinking of the incident thru my usual tunnel vision

I envisioned the OP having a civil conversation on his front porch, and I took fed up to mean they were just tired of coming to his house. Also, in post #1 the term PA State Police was used. In my GA county we have Police for inside the city limits, the Sheriff's Department for county-wide, and the GA State Patrol for patrolling and controlling the highways. I personally know all the Police, and the Sheriff and his deputies... and a GSP officer, whom I would not know, would never show up at my door investigating a lame citizen complaint.

 

[spamgnome]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advise. Both officers were very cordial which probably kept me from getting arrogant with them however what a waste of their manpower and taxpayers dollars it is. It won't deter me from flying at home and if I do receive a 3rd visit I'll be the one phoning 911.

If you call 911 just because the police showed up, then you WILL be the one abusing public resources. Someone said above that clamming up and "quoting your constitutional rights" will make things worse. Hogwash. If you don't want to talk to the police, you don't have to. Period. They will not arrest you unless they have really good suspicion of an actual crime.

 

[Torque]

Legally I don't have to show the police my ID or give them any information. We've all seen the auditor style videos on YouTube.
I refer to them as "How to Escalate" videos.

Myself, if approached by LEO for flying a drone? Cordial and respectful, ID myself, ask why they stopped, I'll explain what I'm doing, tell them I have flight logs that map my path and show telemetry if needed. Just like I'd show the investigating officer my dash cam video at the scene of an accident if I was in the right. I have no desire to prolong the interaction by being evasive and dodgy, just let me get back to flying and get him/her on back on patrol quickly, and neither of us upset with the other. No reason for a clash of egos, I'm doing my job and he is doing his.
I find I feel more powerful de escalating a situation than I do escalating it.

 

[umanbean]

I find I feel more powerful de escalating a situation than I do escalating it.

EXACTLY.... Very well said. Don't know why more people don't get that.

 

[Cymruflyer]

BTW, I don't blame the LEO for slapping an "interference" citation on some jerk who believes it's okay, because he has the right to, to stand there yelling crap at an LEO because "Black Lives Matter". And I'm making no statement here about the justification, politics, or anything else about the BLM movement.

I'm citing a well-known example for how an idea with merit is more often used as a cudgel against those someone hates, rather than actions that lead to improving the situation.

No one is helped by being nasty to an LEO. No one, ever. Talking with respect and a clear desire for mutual understanding goes a long way.

With a police officer, or your mechanic.

Or you wife!!!! .......Had to put that one in, she's standing over my shoulder...

 

[Cymruflyer]

In my neck of the woods you cannot hover at someones window thats a big no-no and you will be taking a ride for Harassment. BUT It is not necessarily illegal for your drone to enter a barn. I would like to know how they would arrest ones Drone for trespassing!

I think you have a right to the airspace that is from the top of your house or barn, down to the ground. So, someone flying that low would be sort of trespassing. Plus, that sort of flying activity goes well beyond recreational flying.

 

[Limewood]

I also live in rural NW PA (near Cambridge) and have never had a problem. Guess I don’t have any neighbors who think they look good enough to peek at.

 

[Cafguy]

Plus, that sort of flying activity goes well beyond recreational flying.

Have you flown FPV?

 

[hiflyer201]

You might have to use something like air data. That would dispel all doubt.

 

[FLDave]

I think you have a right to the airspace that is from the top of your house or barn, down to the ground. So, someone flying that low would be sort of trespassing. Plus, that sort of flying activity goes well beyond recreational flying.

What is your basis for that incorrect statement? What does "sort of" mean?

 

[Torque]

What is your basis for that incorrect statement? What does "sort of" mean?

That same scenario that was called "sort of trespassing" is an invasion of privacy, and can be charged as such in many locals. We recently had a situation here where a drone pilot was descending to 10 feet in a neighbor's back yard, and the neighbor claimed they had seen the drone trying to look in their windows. They were told by the police to get photos and they could charge the offender with "invasion of privacy".

 

[Droning on and on...]

Have you flown FPV?

Not through anyone's private structures, unless obviously abandoned, or with permission.

The interior of a barn is just like your living room, and you're just as liable for whatever laws that make it illegal to fly through the window of a house and wander around with your Avata. These laws don't say, "barns excepted"