Help for RID compliance, PLEASE

[vindibona1]

Good thoughts there vindibona, as always. I fly a mini2 commercially once or twice a month and I honestly don’t know how I’m going to comply with RID. I think DJI should design a compact unit which plugs into the C-port to be powered by the onboard flight battery, in case that’s possible.

After the deadline, how in the world is FAA going to enforce all this? It will take a few years for it all to settle in. I don’t mind complying. I just want to know how. I suspect that legacy drones won’t be fined, for awhile anyway.

I suspect that if those who do not comply or who are unable to comply don't do anything stupid there will never be an issue with FAA involvement. Being an owner of a M2P as well, I'm not certain what I'm going to do. My Mini 3 Pro at some point will have RID turned on and I suspect when I purchase a Mavic 3 variant in the spring it will come with upated firmware with RID already functioning. I always try to fly within the rules, so I'd like to believe that whatever risk is limited. And if there is an inadvertant issue I have to think there would be an administrative warning before any penalties are imposed for just failing to renew.

While not kosher, in an attempt to have pseudo compliance with registration so it can't be said that there is gross non-compliance, a Part 107 could probably register as recreational and use that registration number. I don't know. I haven't tried it, though I still have a registration number from before I got my Part 107.

As I mentioned in other threads and drew a parallel in my previous reply, I think there that there are going to be unintended consequences of the bad kind that (IMO) exceed the benefits of RID (and regs in other subject areas). I hope not, but you know how things are these days.

 

[quadCOPimaging]

This last Monday I renewed registration for 5 non-RID drones under Pt. 107 reg for my employer. No problem.

Look at the top of the renewal screen - you must answer “No” to the question “…is your UAS supplied with RID…”
Then, the RID serial number box will be grayed out, and you can complete your renewal, getting you to September 2023. I hold out some hope that the Mavic 2 series may yet receive a firmware update for RID. We’ll see. Otherwise, it will mean adding an external Broadcast Module for drones over 250g or any drone for Pt. 107 operations.

This last Monday I renewed registration for 5 non-RID drones under Pt. 107 reg for my employer. No problem.

Look at the top of the renewal screen - you must answer “No” to the question “…is your UAS supplied with RID…”
Then, the RID serial number box will be grayed out, and you can complete your renewal, getting you to September 2023. I hold out some hope that the Mavic 2 series may yet receive a firmware update for RID. We’ll see. Otherwise, it will mean adding an external Broadcast Module for drones over 250g or any drone for Pt. 107 operations.

SethB,

Thank you for the heads up!!! Much appreciated.

 

[BrianH]

I just went twenty fruitless rounds with DJI customer support. They do not have a firmware update for the Mavic Mini and no information if that will ever change. I fly commercially (for home inspections), so I need RID even if the drone is less than 250g. I asked DJI if they are developing a broadcast module product... "no." I asked them if they had tested any third-party broadcast modules with the Mavic Mini... "no." I asked them if they had any plans to integrate with any third party products... "no." At present (May 2023), the only broadcast module that might work costs over $200, weighs about 20 grams, and requires its own separate battery power and software app. At this point, I am throwing up my arms. I am prepared to comply. I just hope someone somewhere comes up with an affordable practical solution or FAA provides more time for compliance.

 

[Droning on and on...]

At present (May 2023), the only broadcast module that might work costs over $200, weighs 21 grams, and requires its own separate battery power and software app. At this point, I am throwing up my arms. I am prepared to comply. I just hope someone somewhere comes up with an affordable practical solution or FAA provides more time for compliance.

Dronetag BS

 

[mavic3usa]

So are we all lining up to buy the Dronetag on Monday? Will we be able to actually use these for the various DJI models that won't be getting RID?

 

[SethB]

So are we all lining up to buy the Dronetag on Monday? Will we be able to actually use these for the various DJI models that won't be getting RID?

Nope. I plan to come back to modules around Aug. 15 to have plenty of time to be compliant by Sept. 16. I speculate that there will be plenty of supply, with more choices. And perhaps more RID firmware updates for different drones.

Yes, one should be able to rubber band, velcro, zip tie, and/or glue a RID broadcast module to any drone with the needed payload capacity. There is nothing special about a DJI drone when it comes to a module.

 

[66427cobra]

To be more accurate it is my understanding that for recreational flights with sun 250 g drones RID is not required, but that it would be required for commercial part 107 operation.

It seems to me that this was covered by Greg at Pilot Institute in one of his weekly briefings.

I reached out to the FAA about this because I fly both recreationally and under Part 107.

You do not need RID if your non-compliant sub-250g drone is flown for recreational purposes. If that drone is also flown for Part 107 it requires RID when flying for commercial purposes. That non-compliant drone would need an add-on RID module that would need to be attached and active for Part 107 flights.

Here's the rub...That non-compliant drone must have both a commercial and a recreational registration. If it doesn't have a recreational registration then you must fly that commercially registered drone with the RID active, even when flying strictly for recreational purposes.

I had a back and forth email conversation with [email protected] during which we covered these scenarios. The entire post can be accessed here:

Remote ID sub 250g used for rec and 107

Sorry if this has been addressed before. I searched the forum and could not find any related responses. I fly a Mini 2 for both recreation and Part 107. The drone is registered because of Part 107 use. I haven't heard if the Mini 2 will offer internal Remote ID or if an addon device will be...

mavicpilots.com

 

[mavic3usa]

Nope. I plan to come back to modules around Aug. 15 to have plenty of time to be compliant by Sept. 16. I speculate that there will be plenty of supply, with more choices. And perhaps more RID firmware updates for different drones.

Yes, one should be able to rubber band, velcro, zip tie, and/or glue a RID broadcast module to any drone with the needed payload capacity. There is nothing special about a DJI drone when it comes to a module.

That's what I though for a long time and then I started to realize that you can simply strap on one of these external modules, never turn it on, and take off and fly and nobody would know otherwise; correct? The pilot is not responsible for the correct details to be transmitted or if, right?

 

[Wreckhunter]

So, I'm assuming then that DJI will not be providing firmware updates for my Mavic 2 pro and SC? I have not idea as to where to buy an RID module either, or hasn't anything been built yet? If not, I hope DJI gets on this asap. I'd rather buy one from DJI to make sure it's compatible with my specific drone that go to a 3rd party and take the chance it won't work. All of a sudden, flying my drone doesn't seem like as much fun anymore with all this compliance and update stuff happening. :-( THANKS for your help.

No need to hurry,,not sure there is anybody in a big hurry for this mess.I know I am not sitting on pins and needles,
and I am pretty sure their are a lot of pilots here that are not thinking about RID at all.As far as modules I would not
do anything until right before Sept.if it starts up when it is suppose to. I have my doubts about that even.
Modules will be the cheapest the longer you hold off getting one.

 

[66427cobra]

That's what I though for a long time and then I started to realize that you can simply strap on one of these external modules, never turn it on, and take off and fly and nobody would know otherwise; correct? The pilot is not responsible for the correct details to be transmitted or if, right?

The answer to your first question is, yes.

The second one, no. You are responsible for entering the correct data and turning on the module.

There are many requirements associated with being a drone pilot; maintain VLOS, fly in control, no sustained flight over people, max 400 AGL, etc. Can you fly and ignore the rules/laws? Sure, just like you can speed, run stop lights and maybe not get caught.

Is that being a responsible drone pilot?

 

[mavic3usa]

The answer to your first question is, yes.

The second one, no. You are responsible for entering the correct data and turning on the module.

There are many requirements associated with being a drone pilot; maintain VLOS, fly in control, no sustained flight over people, max 400 AGL, etc. Can you fly and ignore the rules/laws? Sure, just like you can speed, run stop lights and maybe not get caught.

Is that being a responsible drone pilot?

That's not what I meant. As the pilot, you are not responsible for the module functioning correctly. The module has received FAA approval so the pilot can assume the data that is transmitted is accurate and appropriate and proper range, etc. Meaning, the pilot never has to check to verify what is being transmitted and that others can retrieve and read it. When you say "entering the correct data" I assume you mean into the FAA portal; otherwise there is no other data entry to be performed, right?

I could be wrong but I thought the FAA said to manufacturers who provide built-in RID to not allow the drone to lift off unless RID was turned on. For my RID-ready drones, I never have to ensure I turn on RID before I fly because I cannot fly unless it is "turned on." So today, I have no RID-responsibility on site. Does this change when remote ID external modules arrive on the scene and go into use after September?

This isn't me talking; this is the vast majority of rule breakers: What is going to stop them from saying they turned on the certified device, not my problem it doesn't transmit properly. The FAA is never going to hold the pilot responsible for the range, operation, and content of a certified module, how can they?

 

[anotherlab]

That's not what I meant. As the pilot, you are not responsible for the module functioning correctly.

That is not correct. That would be like saying because a drone can fly beyond the VLOS distance, the pilot is not responsible if he (or she) flies the drone beyond VLOS.

I could be wrong but I thought the FAA said to manufacturers who provide built-in RID to not allow the drone to lift off unless RID was turned on.

The FAA has not made this a requirement. Do you have a source for this? In any case, this is a moot point because any drone that comes with RID will always probably have it on, and turning it off will not be an option

What is going to stop them from saying they turned on the certified device, not my problem it doesn't transmit properly. The FAA is never going to hold the pilot responsible for the range, operation, and content of a certified module, how can they?

It comes down to law enforcement. If someone reports a drone and LE comes to check it out and they can't detect the RID signal, then it will be on you to prove that it was operational.

You are required to have working headlights on a car to drive at night. If a headlight fails, the car is still going to operate. But it's on you to verify that headlights work and that law is enforced when a law enforcement officer sees you driving in the dark with a headlight out.

 

[SethB]

That's not what I meant. As the pilot, you are not responsible for the module functioning correctly. The module has received FAA approval so the pilot can assume the data that is transmitted is accurate and appropriate and proper range, etc. Meaning, the pilot never has to check to verify what is being transmitted…

…This isn't me talking; this is the vast majority of rule breakers: What is going to stop them from saying they turned on the certified device, not my problem it doesn't transmit properly. The FAA is never going to hold the pilot responsible for the range, operation, and content of a certified module, how can they?

Adding to what @anotherlab wrote, there is a bad premise in the first statement:
As the pilot, you are not responsible…
That is incorrect. As the pilot, you are responsible. For everything you put up in the air.

The regs we fly under in the US are based on the experiences and practices of military aviation and general aviation. There is someone in command, for us that’s the Remote Pilot in Command (RPIC), and they are responsible for maintenance and condition of the aircraft and payload.

You can find the legislation here:

Federal Register :: Request Access

From takeoff to shutdown, the person operating the unmanned aircraft must ensure that the remote identification broadcast module broadcasts the remote identification message elements of § 89.315 directly from the unmanned aircraft.

I suppose one could argue about enforceability, but I agree with what @anotherlab wrote immediately above - if someone sees a drone in the sky that isn’t broadcasting RID that’s a solid reason for investigation and detention. What a hassle!

 

[GGehret]

I just went twenty fruitless rounds with DJI customer support. They do not have a firmware update for the Mavic Mini and no information if that will ever change. I fly commercially (for home inspections), so I need RID even if the drone is less than 250g. I asked DJI if they are developing a broadcast module product... "no." I asked them if they had tested any third-party broadcast modules with the Mavic Mini... "no." I asked them if they had any plans to integrate with any third party products... "no." At present (May 2023), the only broadcast module that might work costs over $200, weighs about 20 grams, and requires its own separate battery power and software app. At this point, I am throwing up my arms. I am prepared to comply. I just hope someone somewhere comes up with an affordable practical solution or FAA provides more time for compliance.

I pretty much gave up too. I contacted DJI to see if they were going to have a software update for my Mavic 2 pro. They said, "NO." So since I only fly for recreational purposes, I decided to give my Mavic mini to my brother to fly, and I sold my Mavic 2 pro and all the gear. I didn't want to purchase a 300 dollar module for an older, albeit awesome drone. I took the sale money and bought the mini 3 pro. I have found in the past year that when I wanted to go flying, I tended to grab my mini first before hauling out the 2 pro, sooo, the Mini 3 pro serves all I what and need and since it already has built in RID, I don't have to worry now about the regs coming up in September.

 

[Droning on and on...]

August is gonna be interesting in the US drone community...

 

[anotherlab]

I have the Mavic 2 Pro and I'm not expecting an update from DJI that will add Remote ID. I think it could be done, but I'm not expecting DJI to do it. I like my M2P and I'm not ready to unload it. The external modules are already below $150 USD and I expect it to drop even lower this Summer. After the cutoff date, the vendors will have a window of opportunity where everyone who wants to get one will do so.

After that, the demand will trend down because it's a fixed supply of drones that will need this. The Remote ID vendors will need to make their sales early to recoup their costs and make a profit. It's kind of like external satellite radio receivers for the car. 10 years ago few cars came with Sirius/XM radio and there were multiple options for getting one for your car. Now most new cars come with it and no additional hardware is required.