Jitter when yawing

tezdrone · Feb 25, 2017

Hey everyone, this video is my first flight. Just wanted to get your opinion on the jittering in some parts of the video.

It was pretty windy, not too crazy, but I did get the warning couple of times.

Is this normal? I'm still happy with the drone as my first DJI haha.

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Wacker2611 · Feb 25, 2017

I could be v wrong, but it looks to me like your shutter speed was very high, which will cause that jitter on yaw. As has been discussed in scores of threads you can reduce that by yawing slowly, but the best way to reduce your shutter speed on this thing is with am nd filter. Were you using a filter on that footage, and can you remember what shutter speed you were at?

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Kilrah · Feb 25, 2017

Some bits seem to have a framerate mismatch between shooting and editing.

tezdrone · Feb 25, 2017

Wacker2611 said:
I could be v wrong, but it looks to me like your shutter speed was very high, which will cause that jitter on yaw. As has been discussed in scores of threads you can reduce that by yawing slowly, but the best way to reduce your shutter speed on this thing is with am nd filter. Were you using a filter on that footage, and can you remember what shutter speed you were at?

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Thanks for the reply! Ah interestin.

I was not using any filters and didn't set the shutter speed! So it's at automatic/default at 4k 30fps.

Newbie question: what's a shutter speed for video? I do hobby photography and know shutter speed for photos obviously but not for video...

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tezdrone · Feb 25, 2017

Kilrah said:
Some bits seem to have a framerate mismatch between shooting and editing.

I'm not a pro in editing so quite possibly I've done mismatches in that regard, but, all the jittering I'm referring to (eg 0:55 to 1:00) is present in raw output too.

For further ref I did 4k 30 fps, and default for everything else. It was quite windy, so my theory was that gust like wind makes the drone "jump"...

But I'd love to learn anything in video settings if I can mitigate or avoid that.

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Robbyg · Feb 25, 2017

Follow the 180 rule for shooting video.
If your shooting at 30fps then the proper shutter speed will be 1/60
SS=1/(2xfps)

The problem is that in daylight the mavics fixed wide open aperture will give you a completly white screen so you need the ND filters to darken the images if not you will end up having to speed up the shutter speed to cut back the light to take semi usable video.

Rob

tezdrone · Feb 25, 2017

Robbyg said:
Follow the 180 rule for shooting video.
If your shooting at 30fps then the proper shutter speed will be 1/60
SS=1/(2xfps)

The problem is that in daylight the mavics fixed wide open aperture will give you a completly white screen so you need the ND filters to darken the images if not you will end up having to speed up the shutter speed to cut back the light to take semi usable video.

Rob

I see, very useful tip; thanks Rob!

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Wacker2611 · Feb 25, 2017

I'm a relatively recent convert to manual settings on the Mavic. A few years ago when I first got my Phantom I got really in to the image quality side of things and went manual from day one. However I quickly realised that with that camera you could get away with mostly auto settings and have fantastic footage (because, unlike the Mavic, it had a very useable 60fps option)which could be sorted in post. With the Mavic, I started off in auto, and quickly realised that this wasn't good enough for this tiny camera. So I got myself some taco rc filters and haven't looked back. People over complicate this, but for me it's quite simple as I don't get bogged down in the minutiae. All I do is set the shutter speed to 1/60 (shooting in 2.7k/30), initially set the ISO to 100, leave white balance on auto, and usually slap an nd16 filter on, which is the sweet spot for me. I then make an adjustment to the ISO if required to brighten the image a bit( if slightly cloudy) And that's it. No more jitters.

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rb14 · Feb 25, 2017

Robbyg said:
Follow the 180 rule for shooting video.
If your shooting at 30fps then the proper shutter speed will be 1/60
SS=1/(2xfps)

The problem is that in daylight the mavics fixed wide open aperture will give you a completly white screen so you need the ND filters to darken the images if not you will end up having to speed up the shutter speed to cut back the light to take semi usable video.

Rob

Rob. You were doing OK until the second paragraph! I'm very very noob when it comes to video shutter speeds and GPS, so to read your "rule of 180" is very helpful; even I can take that in. But then you confused me. Are you saying that using the 180 rule will result in a completely white screen unless I have ND filters? Or are you saying that the rule of 180 will resolve the white screen issue?

And then you go on to say "if not, «you have to» speed up the shutter speed". If not what? If you don't have filters, or if you don't use the rule of 180?

I don't have filters (I'm beginning to think I should) so should I disregard the 180 rule or use it? And finally, if I get some, how does the rule of 180 affect my choice of which to use?

razors · Feb 25, 2017

Not saying you have this issue but see this thread.

I recommend reading it all.

Not a smooth video while turning.

Robbyg · Feb 25, 2017

rb14 said:
Rob. You were doing OK until the second paragraph! I'm very very noob when it comes to video shutter speeds and GPS, so to read your "rule of 180" is very helpful; even I can take that in. But then you confused me. Are you saying that using the 180 rule will result in a completely white screen unless I have ND filters? Or are you saying that the rule of 180 will resolve the white screen issue?

And then you go on to say "if not, «you have to» speed up the shutter speed". If not what? If you don't have filters, or if you don't use the rule of 180?

I don't have filters (I'm beginning to think I should) so should I disregard the 180 rule or use it? And finally, if I get some, how does the rule of 180 affect my choice of which to use?

The 180 rule is what videographers use to get natural looking video.
The problem with the Mavic is the Aperature is not adjustable. So in most cases if you follow the 180 rule the picture will be washed out and white. You need ND filters to cut back the light levels so that you can use the 180 rule settings and not have a washed out recording.

If you have no filters then you just have to work with whatever shutter speed gives you a proper exposure or leave it in automode until you get some ND filters. ND 8 / ND16 are the two most useful filters for daylight video shooting with the Mavic.

Grey Wolf · Feb 25, 2017

Never use auto WB or exposure.
Set shutter to 60th for 30p or 48th for 24p.
Use ND filters in daylight and always shoot 4K for maximum resolution and quality.
You can always downgrade in post!

Wacker2611 · Feb 25, 2017

Grey Wolf said:
Never use auto WB or exposure.
Set shutter to 60th for 30p or 48th for 24p.
Use ND filters in daylight and always shoot 4K for maximum resolution and quality.
You can always downgrade in post!

Sorry, don't agree with your rather full stop statement. Agree on the exposure, but, unless you're an absolute top notch pixel peeper, there is no discernible benefit to not using auto WB. I realise that's not common wisdom among the pro's but seriously, there's no real difference.

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rb14 · Feb 26, 2017

Robbyg said:
The 180 rule is what videographers use to get natural looking video.
The problem with the Mavic is the Aperature is not adjustable. So in most cases if you follow the 180 rule the picture will be washed out and white. You need ND filters to cut back the light levels so that you can use the 180 rule settings and not have a washed out recording.

If you have no filters then you just have to work with whatever shutter speed gives you a proper exposure or leave it in automode until you get some ND filters. ND 8 / ND16 are the two most useful filters for daylight video shooting with the Mavic.

Thanks Rob, that helps hugely. And apologies for the typo in my post which autocorrected fps to GPS.

tezdrone · Feb 26, 2017

Btw (I posted the original question) I flew again today, reduce gimbal movement speeds and tried to yaw very slowly (which results in more cinematic and professional shots anyway) and the issue is completely resolved.

I know that the reason (and ultimate solution for fast yaw) could still be in the shutter speed, etc... But for anyone out there who just wants to easily avoid the problem for normal cinematic videos... Just yaw very slowly and reduce gimbal speeds and you're good to go

Thank yiu everyone for awesome answers and guidelines

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Vadar007 · May 6, 2017

So I ran a couple tests to see what settings work best to reduce the jitter I was seeing while panning. I ran through 4 scenarios, one in NTSC mode, one in PAL mode. All panning videos shown were with Tripod mode enabled. It was a bright, clear day in the afternoon. Base settings were: AWB=SUNNY, Color = NONE, Style = 0,0,0, ISO=100, Shutter=60, ND16 Polar Pro Filter applied. As you can tell from the videos FPS=30 gave the smoothest pan in NTSC. None of the PAL runs provided smooth panning (24FPS or 25FPS). I also did a similar test using an ND8 Polar Pro Filter and Shutter=100 with similar results. Next test will be to drive the Shutter down to 50 to see if the PAL panning improves.

NTSC 2K FPS24 (2720x1530)

NTSC 2K FPS30 (2720x1530)

NTSC 4K 24FPS (3840x2160)

NTSC 4K 30FPS (3840x2160)

Grey Wolf · May 6, 2017

No such thing as 24p in PAL mode.
It only works in NTSC!
In PAL, you have 25p, 50i or 50p. Dji priductcts only produce progressive signals in native 24 or 25 or 30 depending on format you choose.

Vadar007 · May 6, 2017

Interesting, DJI GO 4 App says to the contrary. I can select PAL and select 24FPS or 25FPS at 2K and 4K with no error messages. The question is whether it's really doing the 24FPS.

Vadar007 · May 6, 2017

Vadar007 said:
Interesting, DJI GO 4 App says to the contrary. I can select PAL and select 24FPS or 25FPS at 2K and 4K with no error messages. The question is whether it's really doing the 24FPS.

When I look at the properties for the videos I shot in PAL is does look like the frames rates do change in PAL mode.

Vadar007 · May 7, 2017

I ran the same series of tests as in Post #16. Everything was the same but set to PAL and Shutter=50. Similar time of day and lighting conditions. While jitter was a little less at 25FPS, it was still evident. Seems NTSC 2K or 4K @ 30FPS gives the smoothest panning.

PAL 2K FPS24 (2720x1530)

PAL 2K FPS25 (2720x1530)

PAL 4K 24FPS (3840x2160)

PAL 4K 25FPS (3840x2160)