Night Flying Myths

[NorthEastJohn]

OK, so I am confused. I have my 107 Cert and it say that I can fly up and through twilight as long as my UAS has lights visible from 3 miles and is in line of sight. I was interested in obtaining my CFR Part 107, Subpart D ... 107.29 Daylight operation waiver. I did a quick search on this site and found where some folks refer to fact that you can fly at night without a waiver of any kind if you are a member of AMA and abide by the FAA guidelines for night flight. Can someone please clarify and reference documentation that is not 4 years old please....thanks

 

[Strafe1]

OK, so I am confused. I have my 107 Cert and it say that I can fly up and through twilight as long as my UAS has lights visible from 3 miles and is in line of sight. I was interested in obtaining my CFR Part 107, Subpart D ... 107.29 Daylight operation waiver. I did a quick search on this site and found where some folks refer to fact that you can fly at night without a waiver of any kind if you are a member of AMA and abide by the FAA guidelines for night flight. Can someone please clarify and reference documentation that is not 4 years old please....thanks

The 4 year old stuff is current. I'm not sure that any of the night flying applies to you since you are 107 cert. I believe you will need to apply for a waiver to fly after the 30 minute sunrise/sunset rule. Hobby fliers can fly at night, however, that's probably what you have been reading. You don't need to be an AMA member, nor are there separate FAA guidelines for night flight as it pertains to recreational fliers. VLOS applies regardless. I don't know what the rules are if your flight is a recreational one even though you are 107 certified. Having your certification, you probably already know the answer to that. Below is current from the FAA.

 

[Skyler]

First, let's be clear that we're talking specifically about the United States and FAA regulations in this thread.

Second, just because you have your 107 UAS certification, it doesn't mean you lose the ability to fly recreational (non-commercial) flights under the hobbyist rules. Each time you takeoff, you must make a decision whether that flight is under the Part 101 hobbyist (Fly for Fun) rules or the Part 107 commercial (Fly for Work) rules. If your flight is for commercial purposes, then obviously you must fly under the Part 107 rules. However, if your flight is for recreational purposes AND if you have 107 UAS certification, then you can choose to operate that flight under either the Part 101 rules or the Part 107 rules.

If you want to fly a recreational, non-commercial flight at night, you can under the Part 101 rules because they do not specifically forbid night flying. However, you still have to follow the rest of the Part 101 rules like keeping the aircraft in visual line-of-sight and notifying all airports within 5 miles.

 

[halley]

the Part 101 rules ... do not specifically forbid night flying

Correct, not forbidden. Just be aware...

The "Fly for Fun" rules also state "MUST follow community-based safety guidelines" (which turns guidelines into rules); the un-named community based guidelines is widely understood to mean the Academy of Model Aeronautics, not just your apartment building manager's so-called community.

Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Aircraft Safety Code

> RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems are inadequate for night flying operations.

 

[iflymydrone.com]

Okay, follow me on this: I am Part 107 certified, though, I have never taken flight for a client. However, as a career photographer, I have been repped by several stock agencies for decades. Today, stock footage is more lucrative than still images as stock. I fly frequently and when I get footage that I consider of commercial value, I upload it to my stock agency.

So, if I make a legal nighttime flight, is the footage that I capture under Part 101 for eternity? Very often, I cannot assign stock value to my footage until I later evaluate it on my computer. If at the time that I take off, I have not identified a specific buyer, have not set a price, and do not know when or if the footage will ever sell, is the footage Part 101 or Part 107? In other words, can the footage created under Part 101 EVER be sold commercially if it has commercial value? Heck, as a career photographer ANY an ALL imagery that I create can be subject to being sold. That is the way I am wired.

My question is not a hypothetical one. This is precisely my situation. I believe that current law does not address my situation. I am less than comfortable with the sometimes Part 101, sometimes Part 103 thing. FAA does not issue postdated waivers.

However, with the exception of flying at night, I feel covered for commercial use because I have Part 107. What say you?

 

[Qoncussion]

Okay, follow me on this: I am Part 107 certified, though, I have never taken flight for a client. However, as a career photographer, I have been repped by several stock agencies for decades. Today, stock footage is more lucrative than still images as stock. I fly frequently and when I get footage that I consider of commercial value, I upload it to my stock agency.

So, if I make a legal nighttime flight, is the footage that I capture under Part 101 for eternity? Very often, I cannot assign stock value to my footage until I later evaluate it on my computer. If at the time that I take off, I have not identified a specific buyer, have not set a price, and do not know when or if the footage will ever sell, is the footage Part 101 or Part 107? In other words, can the footage created under Part 101 EVER be sold commercially if it has commercial value? Heck, as a career photographer ANY an ALL imagery that I create can be subject to being sold. That is the way I am wired.

My question is not a hypothetical one. This is precisely my situation. I believe that current law does not address my situation. I am less than comfortable with the sometimes Part 101, sometimes Part 103 thing. FAA does not issue postdated waivers.

However, with the exception of flying at night, I feel covered for commercial use because I have Part 107. What say you?

The rules regarding your question are simple... If you make money from the flight - it becomes a 107 flight (period). Others may get into a long discussion about this, as they often do here - but the FAA has made this very clear. If you take images from a part 101 flight and convert them into cash ~it's now a 107 flight.

 

[iflymydrone.com]

The rules regarding your question are simple... If you make money from the flight - it becomes a 107 flight (period). Others may get into a long discussion about this, as they often do here - but the FAA has made this very clear. If you take images from a part 101 flight and convert them into cash ~it's now a 107 flight.

I don't disagree with you at all, Kevin. What I am speaking to is the inconsistencies in the regulation as it exist now. And, I do believe that in due time, the inconsistencies will be fixed and the regulations improved. So happens that the biggest area of inconsistency is the exact subject that we are discussing.

The very fact that a person could have received their first drone yesterday, on Christmas day, and legally fly tonight, makes my eyebrows raise. Yet, an experienced sUAS pilot flying under Part 107, who did not submit a waiver weeks ago is grounded 30 minutes after sunset.

I support the FAA's right to regulate commercial sUAS flights. I would like to see the waiver process fixed. And, I do believe that the process is already underway. The question is, how long will it take to fix it.

Best regards,
Tom Collins

 

[DJinCleveland]

Okay, follow me on this: I am Part 107 certified, though, I have never taken flight for a client. However, as a career photographer, I have been repped by several stock agencies for decades. Today, stock footage is more lucrative than still images as stock. I fly frequently and when I get footage that I consider of commercial value, I upload it to my stock agency.

So, if I make a legal nighttime flight, is the footage that I capture under Part 101 for eternity? Very often, I cannot assign stock value to my footage until I later evaluate it on my computer. If at the time that I take off, I have not identified a specific buyer, have not set a price, and do not know when or if the footage will ever sell, is the footage Part 101 or Part 107? In other words, can the footage created under Part 101 EVER be sold commercially if it has commercial value? Heck, as a career photographer ANY an ALL imagery that I create can be subject to being sold. That is the way I am wired.

My question is not a hypothetical one. This is precisely my situation. I believe that current law does not address my situation. I am less than comfortable with the sometimes Part 101, sometimes Part 103 thing. FAA does not issue postdated waivers.

However, with the exception of flying at night, I feel covered for commercial use because I have Part 107. What say you?

From my understanding, If you are flying with the purpose of possibly selling those photos, then it's 107. Even if the possibility is not likely. I don't believe it matters if you actually sell something or not. If something like this ever went to court(But it won't), I believe someone could argue that since you sell photographs for a living, it's logical to assume you were flying under 107.

If you are purely flying for hobby then it's 101. But I do believe it's probably splitting hairs, and I don't think they care that much as long as someone is not doing something dangerous. Kind of like doing 27mph in a 25 zone. Technically against the rules, but no one really cares.

I'm no lawyer or FAA expert. just my opinion.