Sydney Observatory Hill city park?

[KeithLa]

Any Sydneysiders here familiar with Observatory Hill city park? On CASA approved OpenSky map, it appears to be outside the Sydney Harbor no-fly zone, and City of Sydney customer service just told me by phone there's no restriction on small recreational drone piloting from there.

If so, this looks like possibly one of the only legal places to get an aerial view of Sydney harbor, bridge, skyline, etc. FYI, I also spoke with the management of Barangaroo Reserve this morning, who confirmed they do *not* permit drone flying there, even though it is also not in the CASA NFZ on OpenSky.

 

[deleted member 877]

Any Sydneysiders here familiar with Observatory Hill city park? On CASA approved OpenSky map, it appears to be outside the Sydney Harbor no-fly zone, and City of Sydney customer service just told me by phone there's no restriction on small recreational drone piloting from there.

If so, this looks like possibly one of the only legal places to get an aerial view of Sydney harbor, bridge, skyline, etc. FYI, I also spoke with the management of Barangaroo Reserve this morning, who confirmed they do *not* permit drone flying there, even though it is also not in the CASA NFZ on OpenSky.

I would expect that, provided that you don't launch or land within the boundaries of the Barangaroo Reserve, you're good to go. You should be able to legally fly over the Barangaroo Reserve because CASA controls the airspace which you indicate is not an NFZ in that location.

 

[skyrex]

I was recently in Sydney (parking in the opera house car park) and noted as per CASA/OpenSky our recreational drones launch from the steps of the Opera House - climb up to the AGL limit then come back down again.. given right time of day when foot traffic is low etc.
But that is just general observations and not likely to be that easy as similar for Observatory Hill or anywhere in the immediate city boundaries that is not already a CASA NFZ.

Probably pushing the envelope with an operation like that, and there are likely restrictions imposed from the "city of Sydney" as there are for the "city of Melbourne", etc... recently watching YT video someone in Melbourne walked through the application process to get a permit to fly in a park in Melbourne.
A lot of hoop jumping including having a RePL and access to an ReOC and other certifications/safety checklists etc.

EDIT: just re-read and saw OP had made contact with Customer Service for city of Sydney, although they have given you the green light it seems too easy to me.

 

[AnzacJack]

looks good as far as I can see. Just stay out of those NFZ, and be prepared to stay nice and calm if confronted. Id have a chart with you ready to show as well as a printout of rules. Always handy to have on hand as most people that may confront you have no idea of the regs, and if you demonstrate that you are all over them, you will normally be left alone. Stay aware of everything happening around you and be calm at all times.
ALso, always good to get a name when someone on the phone is letting you know that there is no issue.
Best of luck

 

[KeithLa]

FYI, here's today's email reply from the city:

----------------
"There are no specific restrictions although the city does not condone recreational drone use within the CBD as you are not permitted to fly within a populated area under the CASA regulations.

All use must abide by CASA restrictions which does not permit flights within 30m of another person at any time which would be very hard to manage in Observatory Hill Park as well as that area being close to a helicopter flight path."

Kind regards,

Events & Film Liaison
Venue Management

----------------

"Not permitted to fly within a populated area" is a bit ambiguous to me, and I'm unsure if that's actual CASA language, vs. the otherwise very objective 30m rule.

In the States, we have no specific distance rule, but guidance not to fly over "groups of people" (also somewhat vague) or "moving vehicles".

Either way, I do understand the intent for us to avoid any/all risk of our drones falling on people, roads, or buildings.

 

[deleted member 877]

FYI, here's today's email reply from the city:

----------------
"There are no specific restrictions although the city does not condone recreational drone use within the CBD as you are not permitted to fly within a populated area under the CASA regulations.

All use must abide by CASA restrictions which does not permit flights within 30m of another person at any time which would be very hard to manage in Observatory Hill Park as well as that area being close to a helicopter flight path."

Kind regards,

Events & Film Liaison
Venue Management

----------------

"Not permitted to fly within a populated area" is a bit ambiguous to me, and I'm unsure if that's actual CASA language, vs. the otherwise very objective 30m rule.

In the States, we have no specific distance rule, but guidance not to fly over "groups of people" (also somewhat vague) or "moving vehicles".

Either way, I do understand the intent for us to avoid any/all risk of our drones falling on people, roads, or buildings.

I think the CASA language pertaining to the 30m rule as published on the website is not crystal clear in terms of flying over people but it's cleared up with the specific rule about flying over people.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

There is nothing in CASA rules about not flying over populated areas.
There used to be mention of buildings and vehicles, but not in the new rules out for some time now.

The populous area thing is basically not flying over people.

 

[WithTheBirds]

There is nothing in CASA rules about not flying over populated areas.
There used to be mention of buildings and vehicles, but not in the new rules out for some time now.

The populous area thing is basically not flying over people.

It might be you haven’t got the full picture here.

CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY REGULATIONS 1998 - REG 101.025

Meaning of populous area
For this Part, an area is a populous area in relation to the operation of an unmanned aircraft or rocket if the area has a sufficient density of population for some aspect of the operation, or some event that might happen during the operation (in particular, a fault in, or failure of, the aircraft or rocket) to pose an unreasonable risk to the life, safety or property of somebody who is in the area but is not connected with the operation.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

It might be you haven’t got the full picture here.

CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY REGULATIONS 1998 - REG 101.025

Meaning of populous area
For this Part, an area is a populous area in relation to the operation of an unmanned aircraft or rocket if the area has a sufficient density of population for some aspect of the operation, or some event that might happen during the operation (in particular, a fault in, or failure of, the aircraft or rocket) to pose an unreasonable risk to the life, safety or property of somebody who is in the area but is not connected with the operation.

"the area has a sufficient density of population"

Yes, a crowd . . . but it's a moot point when it comes to Australian drone rules.

We know you aren't supposed to fly over even one person closer than 30m laterally, a cylinder of 60m dia to endless height . . . well, technically 120m height here.

Populous area isn't even mention in Australian drone rules.
I'm not sure where Pete got those diagrams.
The only things relating to flying near people, buildings, or anything else for that matter, is . . .

You must not fly your drone:

• closer than 30 m to people — other than those helping to fly or navigate your drone
• over or above people at any time or height
• in a way that creates a hazard to another person, aircraft or property

Drone safety rules

Learn the main set of rules you need to follow at all times when you fly.

www.casa.gov.au

 

[WithTheBirds]

"the area has a sufficient density of population"

Yes, a crowd . . . but it's a moot point when it comes to Australian drone rules.

We know you aren't supposed to fly over even one person closer than 30m laterally, a cylinder of 60m dia to endless height . . . well, technically 120m height here.

Populous area isn't even mention in Australian drone rules.
I'm not sure where Pete got those diagrams.
The only things relating to flying near people, buildings, or anything else for that matter, is . . .

You must not fly your drone:

• closer than 30 m to people — other than those helping to fly or navigate your drone
• over or above people at any time or height
• in a way that creates a hazard to another person, aircraft or property

Drone safety rules

Learn the main set of rules you need to follow at all times when you fly.

www.casa.gov.au

Moot point? LOL

I suspect you realise that the summary of points you linked to doesn't intended to be a detailed explanation of the relevant provisions. In any case in this context I think to suggest it might be limited specifically to crowd is incorrect. It is appealing however to go with your simplistic interpretation as it significantly increases the options of where I might choose to fly my toys.

 

[deleted member 877]

Populous area isn't even mention in Australian drone rules.
I'm not sure where Pete got those diagrams.
The only things relating to flying near people, buildings, or anything else for that matter, is . . .

Drone safety rules

Learn the main set of rules you need to follow at all times when you fly.

www.casa.gov.au

See below for where I found the diagrams - it’s another page on the official CASA URL and refers to “populous areas”:-

Drone rules

Australia’s recreational drone rules are designed to keep you and others safe, on the ground and in the air. Here are the rules you need to know now, before you take-off.

www.casa.gov.au

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

See below for where I found the diagrams - it’s another page on the official CASA URL and refers to “populous areas”:-

Drone rules

Australia’s recreational drone rules are designed to keep you and others safe, on the ground and in the air. Here are the rules you need to know now, before you take-off.

www.casa.gov.au

Drone flyer page makes this very confusing, doesn't it ?
They lead via the links to the

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/rpa_brochure_recreational_dl_150dpi.pdf

Moot point? LOL

I suspect you realise that the summary of points you linked to doesn't intended to be a detailed explanation of the relevant provisions. In any case in this context I think to suggest it might be limited specifically to crowd is incorrect. It is appealing however to go with your simplistic interpretation as it significantly increases the options of where I might choose to fly my toys.

Ok you stay grounded. LOL
You have no idea obviously to the actual facts, I have personally spoken to CASA reps about how I fly, where I fly, and they are all good.
YOU on theother hand have no idea as to how / where I fly.

Didn't I say in my previous reply "We know you aren't supposed to fly over even one person closer than 30m laterally, a cylinder of 60m dia to endless height . . . well, technically 120m height here. "

End of story.
.

 

[deleted member 877]

Drone flyer page makes this very confusing, doesn't it ?
They lead via the links to the

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/rpa_brochure_recreational_dl_150dpi.pdf

I agree - it's confusing. In the Business Intelligence and Analytics industry, there is a concept called "single source of the truth". CASA should be taking more care in this regard - it would seem that there may be a lack of effort in terms of website content governance.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I agree - it's confusing. In the Business Intelligence and Analytics industry, there is a concept called "single source of the truth". CASA should be taking more care in this regard - it would seem that there may be a lack of effort in terms of website content governance.

Absolutely, I recognise a lot of things on drone flyer pages that are so old, they are from years ago.

There really is no need for anything apart from what's on their main CASA drone rules website page now . . .

You must not fly your drone:

• closer than 30 m to people — other than those helping to fly or navigate your drone
• over or above people at any time or height
• in a way that creates a hazard to another person, aircraft or property

That covers populous, but of course it is a moot point because it's basically over ridden by this also covering even a single person.
An unnecessary expansion on the basic rule.

I fly remote landscapes normally, sometimes every flyer can impede on a rule, and correct, no body is perfect in that regard.
CASA reps have confirmed this doesn't bother them, it's about people breaking rules blatantly, probably unknowingly, but that's no excuse.

Take a look here first couple, make you cringe really good . . .

gold coast by dji spark - YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[KeithLa]

60m radius requirement effectively requires a large empty meadow, sports field, or body of water with no boats on it, so I'm concluding as others here have that the whole of Sydney is functionally NFZ, if one follows that rule rigorously.

That said, perhaps its intended enforcement is akin to speed limits, with marginal leeway granted where there's no serious endangerment (speed cameras, notwithstanding).

But I'm not going to be the test case for that here, I'm off back to the States today. Thanks for everyone's thoughtful responses, I wish you safe and fun flying here in beautiful Sydney, wherever you figure out how.

 

[KeithLa]

That covers populous, but of course it is a moot point because it's basically over ridden by this also covering even a single person.
An unnecessary expansion on the basic rule.

I fly remote landscapes normally, sometimes every flyer can impede on a rule, and correct, no body is perfect in that regard.
CASA reps have confirmed this doesn't bother them, it's about people breaking rules blatantly, probably unknowingly, but that's no excuse.

LOL I think we just wrote the same sentiment at the same moment.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Drone flyer page makes this very confusing, doesn't it ?
They lead via the links to the

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/rpa_brochure_recreational_dl_150dpi.pdf

Ok you stay grounded. LOL
You have no idea obviously to the actual facts, I have personally spoken to CASA reps about how I fly, where I fly, and they are all good.
YOU on theother hand have no idea as to how / where I fly.

Didn't I say in my previous reply "We know you aren't supposed to fly over even one person closer than 30m laterally, a cylinder of 60m dia to endless height . . . well, technically 120m height here. "

End of story.
.

Unlike what seems to be your position- I have not, nor would I, profess to know what idea you might have about the rules- that would be foolish.

I does seem you may have missed my point though. All I am saying is that a high level summary of the operation of the regulations won’t and can’t give you the full picture.

Would you be comfortable you might know what is needed to operate your Mavic or to get the full benefit from its use and features if you assumed the quick start guide was a satisfactory replacement for the manual? That is all I am suggesting.

 

[deleted member 877]

I fly remote landscapes normally, sometimes every flyer can impede on a rule, and correct, no body is perfect in that regard.
CASA reps have confirmed this doesn't bother them, it's about people breaking rules blatantly, probably unknowingly, but that's no excuse.

Take a look here first couple, make you cringe really good . . .

gold coast by dji spark - YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

And there we have it. If CASA wanted to be totally draconian they would assign more resources to trawling through social media and posting appropriate warnings. We already know that they do in fact keep an eye on Facebook, YouTube etc. but thankfully they are taking a "softly softly" approach.

How long this friendly environment continues, given the amount of blatantly illegal drone flying related content is posted all over the place, remains to be seen. The amount of unchallenged BVLOS related content posted (and continues to be posted) on this forum alone proves that a significant number of members have no intention of adhering to the associated regulation.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Unlike what seems to be your position- I have not, nor would I, profess to know what idea you might have about the rules- that would be foolish.

I does seem you may have missed my point though. All I am saying is that a high level summary of the operation of the regulations won’t and can’t give you the full picture.

Would you be comfortable you might know what is needed to operate your Mavic or to get the full benefit from its use and features if you assumed the quick start guide was a satisfactory replacement for the manual? That is all I am suggesting.

Yeah sorry mate, I am sure we both have the same ideals to fly safely and responsibly as much as possible in all flights, not withstanding minor discretions can happen for uncontrollable reasons from time to time.
It’s blatant or ignorant flying outside important aviation rules that must be chased down, education applied, and hopefully have another responsible pilot in the skies.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

And there we have it. If CASA wanted to be totally draconian they would assign more resources to trawling through social media and posting appropriate warnings. We already know that they do in fact keep an eye on Facebook, YouTube etc. but thankfully they are taking a "softly softly" approach.

How long this friendly environment continues, given the amount of blatantly illegal drone flying related content is posted all over the place, remains to be seen. The amount of unchallenged BVLOS related content posted (and continues to be posted) on this forum alone proves that a significant number of members have no intention of adhering to the associated regulation.

I’m not 100% sure CASA do trawl social media.
Yet.

There are simply so many online that are mind boggingly outside safe operations.

One thing’s for sure some people getting their hands on drones don’t have a speck of common sense.
I’d like to hope most people would have some foresight can see what ifs from such actions, but it appears not when you dig a little online.

CASA doing such investigative work might become more regular after new licensing and registration comes into effect in 2020, maybe more manpower will be brought to bear, but then the masses have to sign up for the new system.
Most people flying so badly probably don’t give a stuff, or won’t have a clue when it’s commenced.