Tell It To the Judge...

[hoggdoc]

Overflying a park within FAA rules is not illegal. States and local municipalities can pass whatever legislation they want to try and stop people from flying, or to just raise revenues. It doesnt make it federally legitimate, it just makes it daunting for pilots to test the system.

Some day, if not already, a drone pilot will appear before the Supreme Court to defend his or her right, under FAA rules, to fly where he or she wants to, as long as it is compliance with FAA regs. It will be an expensive fight, and without lobbyists in Washington, we drone owners face an uphill battle. DJI doesnt have a lobby, they just sell drones and try to comply so they dont lose business by adding restrictive geofencing in their app.

Rob, this would be really great, but in view of the changing landscape of the FAA's power to regulate the RC flying hobby I'm totally unsure of what the future has in store for the RC flying public.

 

[tcope]

So no dealerships are open on the weekend?! crazy I would imagine most people buy vehicles and motorcycles on the weekend.

Did I not say, "Utah"?

They cannot be open on both days. As such, all are closed on Sunday but open on Saturdays. The stupid part is that someone was able to get a law such as this passed. There is simply no reason why government should be able to legislate when dealerships can and cannot run their businesses. But it is an example of how lawmakers work. They have no problem making laws when paid enough money or they are told it will "fix" something.

 

[Former Member]

Rob, this would be really great, but in view of the changing landscape of the FAA's power to regulate the RC flying hobby I'm totally unsure of what the future has in store for the RC flying public.

Update! Now that DJI has been given authority for LAANC, this changes the whole game.

FAA Facilities participating in LAANC

 

[Norb_DAIS]

Why has the video been removed from YouTube?

Mark

I uploaded a scored version but found that YouTube doesn't allow replacements. Just additions...

 

[Norb_DAIS]

My understanding is that ONLY the FAA may designate a NFZ. IF, this is correct, then it is permissible to take off/land outside the preserve area (gosh, doesn't this sound just like the majority of US National Parks? (NOTE: US Airspace, for US NPS ( my understanding, is NFZ (with exceptions) to approximate 2000 feet AGL, which means you cannot go over 400 AGL anyway)), and fly over without penalty! Was the area posted!?! Most of the time, such posting is only accomplished at the vehicular/pedestrian entrance-ways. Usually, for legitimate NFZs, the NFZ shows on your airmap to alert you as to the presence, usually!. Also, just because it does not show on your map does not mean it is not NFZ. As pilots, we should all strive to ensure adherence to the applicable rules and regulations defined by the FAA, who governs our flight activity. Municipalities have tried (and lost) on the aspect of simply posting signs that say "NO TAKE OF/LANDING IN PARKS". So, take off/land outside the park as, once again, the FAA controls the airspace not the municipality. As others point out, correctly, the FAA controls the enforcement of US airspace, not the land owning entity. If they wish the airspace to be designated as NFZ, they must go through the FAA to complete such actions! Finally, do you have a picture of any clearly posted signage?

Some other interesting reading

https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-conte...itude-airspace-Daily-Journal-5-4-2017.pdf.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak/media/17_phak_ch15.pdf

How to Fly a Drone Without Getting Arrested: State and Local Drone Laws

Frequently Asked Questions
Wildfires
B4UFLY Mobile App
No Drone Zone
Airspace Restrictions


If I am incorrect on any this info, and you are able to provide correct data, please do so.
I appreciate the opportunity to learn and live.

Thanks for sharing all the resources. I have also looked at the sectional maps and I believe I was ok.

 

[Norb_DAIS]

If your talking about the windmills in Tracy I fly there all the time. I take off near one of the warehouses and fly over them alot. where did you take off from? Side road somewhere? Just curious

These are the windmills off Vasco Rd.

 

[Norb_DAIS]

Fight it! it's not much but i'd throw down $20 on a lawyer. Get enough people together and pitch in. The more court rulings in our favor the better and easier it will be in the long run. Sorry but i have to say this guys, please stop calling them windmills... they are wind turbines, hope this info below helps to clarify... sorry to go off topic for a sec. Did something happen to the video? YT says the video is unavailable.

Windmills convert wind energy directly into mechanical energy for such tasks as milling grain--the source of the term--or pumping water.

A wind turbine converts wind energy into electricity, which can then be used to power electrical equipment, stored in batteries or transmitted over power lines.

I'll post another link to the "new" video.

 

[Norb_DAIS]

 

[Norb_DAIS]

Fight it! it's not much but i'd throw down $20 on a lawyer. Get enough people together and pitch in. The more court rulings in our favor the better and easier it will be in the long run. Sorry but i have to say this guys, please stop calling them windmills... they are wind turbines, hope this info below helps to clarify... sorry to go off topic for a sec. Did something happen to the video? YT says the video is unavailable.

Windmills convert wind energy directly into mechanical energy for such tasks as milling grain--the source of the term--or pumping water.

A wind turbine converts wind energy into electricity, which can then be used to power electrical equipment, stored in batteries or transmitted over power lines.

I stand corrected. I will refer to them as wind turbines from now on

 

[Terranitup]

I stand corrected. I will refer to them as wind turbines from now on

lol, i normally let it roll off my skin but I've been hearing it called that a lot lately... can you tell i used to be a wind technician? lol. Hope all goes well and keep us posted!

 

[jaysrmc]

Are you referring to a federal or local precedent?

Here are the airspace restrictions straight from the FAA.

Airspace Restrictions

This was also a answered by the FAA in email to me. Please let me know if u want the email for court .

 

[jaysrmc]

I went out earlier this morning to get some video of the windmills near my home. I've been looking at them every day on my commute and finally looked up a convenient launch area just off the highway.

When I finally got there, the sun was behind and to the right of my planned approach. I considered coming back later in the afternoon when the sun would be behind the shot, but decided to just fly anyway.

Long story short, the regional park ranger pulled up behind me and informed me that the (regional park) police was on the way and they would be asking me some questions.

Turns out the land on the other side of the freeway is a regional preserve and my drone flying over the space was prohibited. Therefore, I was issued a citation with a notice to appear in late November.

This was also a answered by the FAA in email to me. Please let me know if u want the email for court. The state has no bearing on where you fly for the most part. Only take off and landing will hold up.

 

[jaysrmc]

I went out earlier this morning to get some video of the windmills near my home. I've been looking at them every day on my commute and finally looked up a convenient launch area just off the highway.

When I finally got there, the sun was behind and to the right of my planned approach. I considered coming back later in the afternoon when the sun would be behind the shot, but decided to just fly anyway.

Long story short, the regional park ranger pulled up behind me and informed me that the (regional park) police was on the way and they would be asking me some questions.

Turns out the land on the other side of the freeway is a regional preserve and my drone flying over the space was prohibited. Therefore, I was issued a citation with a notice to appear in late November.

Actually I have the contact nber for the FAA for the person responsible g to the email

 

[Seakayaker]

I fear there is more of this on the way. It seems people are intimidated by drones in general and will increasingly legislate to stop us.

Yes it sure seems like it....

 

[Norb_DAIS]

This was also a answered by the FAA in email to me. Please let me know if u want the email for court .

Yes. Thank you.

 

[Rick39]

What we need is the UAV equivalent of the AOPA.

Some years ago in CA a 727 collided with a 172 with all aboard each perishing.

After that the news media called for all those pesky little aeroplanes to severely restricted. It didn't matter to the reporters that the 727 crew had the traffic in sight and was maintaining visual separation. The media actually had the 172 speeding up and running into the 727. Didn't matter that the 727 was going faster than the 172's Vne.

The AOPA was a big help in moderating the changes made by the FAA.

Could you imagine if the media actually did their job and reported facts? Like if there was an allegation of a UAV looking through windows at 200 AGL and they showed what the footage actually looked like and told the general public that we can't possibly see anything through windows?

Even the 5 mile rule from airports is ridiculous. For many years our local airport had an RC flying field less than 2.5 miles away and there was never a hint of a conflict.

Yes there are idiots out there, like those flying above cloud layers. They should be tracked down and have the book thrown at them.

It is profound stupidity to place even more restrictions on those posing no risk while ignoring the real troublemakers.

We need advocates in Government and the media. There have to be responsible UAV pilots who know Officials or reporters and and could educate them on our hobby and maybe find some advocates.

 

[Photo Booth]

What we need is the UAV equivalent of the AOPA.

Some years ago in CA a 727 collided with a 172 with all aboard each perishing.

After that the news media called for all those pesky little aeroplanes to severely restricted. It didn't matter to the reporters that the 727 crew had the traffic in sight and was maintaining visual separation. The media actually had the 172 speeding up and running into the 727. Didn't matter that the 727 was going faster than the 172's Vne.

The AOPA was a big help in moderating the changes made by the FAA.

Could you imagine if the media actually did their job and reported facts? Like if there was an allegation of a UAV looking through windows at 200 AGL and they showed what the footage actually looked like and told the general public that we can't possibly see anything through windows?

Even the 5 mile rule from airports is ridiculous. For many years our local airport had an RC flying field less than 2.5 miles away and there was never a hint of a conflict.

Yes there are idiots out there, like those flying above cloud layers. They should be tracked down and have the book thrown at them.

It is profound stupidity to place even more restrictions on those posing no risk while ignoring the real troublemakers.

We need advocates in Government and the media. There have to be responsible UAV pilots who know Officials or reporters and and could educate them on our hobby and maybe find some advocates.

We have such a group. It's call the Academy of Model Aeronautics. They now advocate for UAS pilots just as much as they continue to advocate for all forms of hobbyist piloting that existed before drones.

Homepage | Academy of Model Aeronautics

Mark

 

[ac0j]

Once again, this topic has wrongly turned into a discussion of airspace.
That is not what the OP's violation is about.
It has NOTHING to do with what or where the the drone was at, and EVERYTHING to do with what the person cited was doing, and where he was doing it from. If he was pulled over at "the gate" or driveway, he was on their property, if he was not on their property, he should prevail.
Dont let what you have learned about the FAA airspace rules interpret local land use laws.

 

[PaulNH]

This is helpful information. But it brings us back to the debate about what our rights are as drone pilots (both hobbyists and P107s) and what local, state or other than the FAA entities can codify and enforce.

I tend to just want to stay out of the mix, but I do appreciate what should be the right to fly safely and responsibly...if that makes any sense.

Looking back at AirMap, they do identify the area as a regional preserve. I overlooked it when I submitted the flight plan and was more focused on the restrictions tab, which indicated none.

Your first line of defense is to speak with the Prosecutor. Show him the laws, in print. They have the power to dismiss the charges before it ever gets in front of the judge.

 

[texasgrape]

Well, for one thing, you did the right thing by being calm and not fighting with them, which could have resulted in your arrest. Your best defense will be a good offense in front of the judge.

• Bring the FAA rules about UAV's
• Bring a printout of where you took off and landed from which was outside the parks jurisdiction.
• Bring drone FAA registration
• If you have a 107, bring that too
• Tell them that now that you know, you will not do it again (begging for mercy even though you were right)
• If found guilty, try to bargain with the judge to get off with a warning, or reduced fine.

One final word... try not to ignore it (I know you wont). Stupid little tickets like this can come back to bite if you left unaddressed.

"Tell them now that you know" what? He didn't break the law so why in the world would he say he won't do it again? OP is going there to explain the law to them (sad) and hopefully get it dismissed--