Why does the FAA Part 107 test require learning apparently unnecessary knowledge?

[Dangerly]

He may be referring to a question about anoxia, which was included on the sRPAS exam I wrote in 2019. Probably came in from the regular pilots exam, because only a very few sRPAS pilots will need to worry about it. (There aren't many mountains in Canada where you need oxygen at the summit. Maybe none.)

Do I understand correctly that you wrote the exam used to test new drone pilots in Canada? Not sure what the s in front of RPAS means so maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Zbip57]

Not sure what the s in front of RPAS means so maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

RPAS is Remotely Piloted Aircraft System, i.e. anything that's remotely piloted.

sRPAS is "Small" RPAS, 250gram to 25kg, which most of the regulations are aimed at.

 

[Zbip57]

Do I understand correctly that you wrote the exam used to test new drone pilots in Canada?

We have no longer have any distinction between recreational or commercial sRPAS requirements in Canada. There's only Basic or Advanced. With the simpler Basic certificate I'm not allowed to fly within any controlled airspace, with restrictions on flying near people or airports/heliports. If you need to fly within controlled airspace, you must hold an Advanced certificate and fly an approved aircraft, etc.

I didn't see the scuba diving question on my Basic exam, but others have mentioned seeing it in the pool of randomly generated questions along with other ridiculous questions. Transport Canada is (already has?) working on pruning out some of those questions and making the exams more relevant.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Now you have me wondering what a Part 61 gets you and why you're got that? Never heard of that before.

What the FAA should do is talk about much more practical stuff that we need to know. They should explain how and why prop icing is an issue.

They do: below is a list of what is covered and the reference sources where this information is.

References AC 107-2; AIM; FAA-H-8083-25; FAA-G-8082-22
Objective To determine that the applicant is knowledgeable of the effects of weather on performance.

Density altitude
Wind and currents
Atmospheric stability, pressure, and temperature
Air masses and fronts
Thunderstorms and microbursts
Tornadoes
Icing
Hail
Ceiling and visibility
Lightning

They should talk about emergency power shut offs (like a CRC).

What if this procedure is unique to a given brand and there are five other ways different brands shut down? Wouldn't it be better to train the pilot the critical importance to know their aircraft and be able to recognize danger and make appropriate decisions based upon risk? They Do

They should talk about ADS-B and how to use that (so very useful).

Why? ADSB is not required on all aircraft so teaching someone to rely on that instead of having situational awareness is pointless. They've done one better - VLOS

They should mention B4YouFly and other useful apps.

They Do.

They should give you the scenario I actually faced in real life (I described above) where a Coast Guard helicopter is flying straight at your drone with no warning - what should you do? In short, they are missing some really important information, and including some not-as-useful information.

They Do. See Above.

If you're looking for the FAA to tailor-fit the regulations to each individual, you may have missed or misunderstood, some of the training.

 

[Dangerly]

They do: below is a list of what is covered and the reference sources where this information is.

References AC 107-2; AIM; FAA-H-8083-25; FAA-G-8082-22
Objective To determine that the applicant is knowledgeable of the effects of weather on performance.

Density altitude
Wind and currents
Atmospheric stability, pressure, and temperature
Air masses and fronts
Thunderstorms and microbursts
Tornadoes
Icing
Hail
Ceiling and visibility
Lightning

Thanks for pointing out the study guide. I looked through it and they don't explain how and why prop icing is an issue. Did I miss it and if so could you point that out? I saw the bit about "structural icing" but all it says is you can get icing if you fly in cold, wet weather which... Well I'm not going to be doing that anyway.

What if this procedure is unique to a given brand and there are five other ways different brands shut down? Wouldn't it be better to train the pilot the critical importance to know their aircraft and be able to recognize danger and make appropriate decisions based upon risk? They Do

They should specifically mention that you should be familiar with an emergency power shut off if your drone has it, and that you should consider this specific action during an emergency. They do not even mention this, unless I'm missing it? It's a critical safety move all drone pilots should know.

Why? ADSB is not required on all aircraft so teaching someone to rely on that instead of having situational awareness is pointless. They've done one better - VLOS

Why do new DJI drones come with an ADS-B receiver? I find it incredibly useful to know about a plane before it reaches my eyesight or earshot and I don't find it takes away from situational awareness, but rather enhances it.

 

[AlanL]

Thanks for pointing out the study guide. I looked through it and they don't explain how and why prop icing is an issue. Did I miss it and if so could you point that out? I saw the bit about "structural icing" but all it says is you can get icing if you fly in cold, wet weather which... Well I'm not going to be doing that anyway.


They should specifically mention that you should be familiar with an emergency power shut off if your drone has it, and that you should consider this specific action during an emergency. They do not even mention this, unless I'm missing it? It's a critical safety move all drone pilots should know.

Why do new DJI drones come with an ADS-B receiver? I find it incredibly useful to know about a plane before it reaches my eyesight or earshot and I don't find it takes away from situational awareness, but rather enhances it.

Worth noting that icing can occur in just about any kind of fog/mist if the temps are low enough low enough at the drone's altitude in flight. It doesn't have to be raining or snowing.

The one problem with relying on ADS-B lies in the fact that it is not mandatory for all private manned aircraft to have it. Thus the admonition to keep up the vigil with VLOS. If a pilot comes into the airspace you are flying in and hits your drone YOU are at fault even though the manned aircraft was flying too low.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

I started looking at the Part 107 practice tests, and I was struck by how much "useless" knowledge seems to be required. A good example would be learning that the wrong angle of attack causes a stall for a fixed wing aircraft. Can someone explain to me how this specific knowledge about angle of attack would ever help a drone pilot?

You should see how much unnecessary garbage they make you study for a private pilot's license. Already having one, I was able to fast-track my Part 107 so I didn't have the pleasure of experiencing what you are describing. It's like having to know how to use a slide rule for your algebra test.

 

[MS Coast]

Worth noting that icing can occur in just about any kind of fog/mist if the temps are low enough low enough at the drone's altitude in flight. It doesn't have to be raining or snowing.

The one problem with relying on ADS-B lies in the fact that it is not mandatory for all private manned aircraft to have it. Thus the admonition to keep up the vigil with VLOS. If a pilot comes into the airspace you are flying in and hits your drone YOU are at fault even though the manned aircraft was flying too low.

Amen. Icing can also occur when there's no visible fog or mist, too.

If anyone is curious about how common non-ADS-B airplane operations are, download one of the free ADS-B tracking apps to your phone and check out the airplanes you see. Around here, only about half the single-engine civilian traffic is broadcasting. And many of the military aircraft going operating from the AFB across the bay are not.

Regarding right of way, manned airplanes are to our drones like pedestrians are to our automobiles. They're always right and we're always wrong.

 

[Robert Prior]

It's like having to know how to use a slide rule for your algebra test.

I still use my slide rule. Useful gadget. Passed a university exam with it when my calculator died.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Thanks for pointing out the study guide. I looked through it and they don't explain how and why prop icing is an issue. Did I miss it and if so could you point that out? I saw the bit about "structural icing" but all it says is you can get icing if you fly in cold, wet weather which... Well I'm not going to be doing that anyway.

A propeller is the same as a wing structure

They should specifically mention that you should be familiar with an emergency power shut off if your drone has it, and that you should consider this specific action during an emergency. They do not even mention this, unless I'm missing it? It's a critical safety move all drone pilots should know.

As I said before, the FAA cannot 'spell out' operational procedure for each and every specific aircraft and situation. Part of being a competent pilot is being able to understand a regulation, such as avoiding manned aviation; and then with knowledge of ones own aircraft - achieve that.

Why do new DJI drones come with an ADS-B receiver? I find it incredibly useful to know about a plane before it reaches my eyesight or earshot and I don't find it takes away from situational awareness, but rather enhances it.

Again, doesn't matter, DJI does not set aviation standards in the US, the FAA does. That you find DJI's ability useful, is very telling that you want to rely on it, and that in turn could distort you sense of SA. So in that context, it does indeed weaken your SA.

 

[pentatony]

I have two main goals: Fly safer, and avoid getting fined by the FAA because I generated good will from a drone photo. It's this situation in particular I worry about:

Me: "Hey, can I take a photo with my drone over your property?"
Other person: "Sure, as long as I get a copy I can use."

My understanding is that this arrangement may be perceived as generating good will for me and would land me a big fine.

Passing 107 makes you a more responsible pilot. More responsible if you do somethng wrong. You have no excuse if you pass 107. You will be fined. If you don't take 107, you have all the excuses in the world to make mistakes. I say don't take it.

 

[pentatony]

Now that is one of the dumbest statement I have ever read here on the forum. For those who may not know or are new to flying, that statement is totally wrong and should be disregarded by all who read it. Of course, piston engines and jets are liquid fueled, because jets use a basis of kerosene as fuel. However, even electric powered aircraft, if not a drone, can and do stall. I'm assuming you are speaking of a wing type aerodynamic stall and not an engine stall, which are two different things, of course.

please describe a drone stall. Give me an example of a quad copter stalling due to flying like a fixed wing might stall.

 

[pentatony]

Don't take the test. Play dumb. What is a 107 exam?

 

[Walleye Hunter]

I still use my slide rule. Useful gadget. Passed a university exam with it when my calculator died.

That's awesome, I'm proud of you. I bought a calculator that didn't break.

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

Passing 107 makes you a more responsible pilot. More responsible if you do somethng wrong. You have no excuse if you pass 107. You will be fined. If you don't take 107, you have all the excuses in the world to make mistakes. I say don't take it.

The FAA is about education first, they would rather not have to go through all of the hassle of fining someone for a mistake. If you blatantly break the rules however, they will sit up and take notice.

 

[Zbip57]

please describe a drone stall. Give me an example of a quad copter stalling due to flying like a fixed wing might stall.

Go back one page and read post #38.

Those are all examples of propellers suffering aerodynamic stall.

 

[Dangerly]

That you find DJI's ability useful, is very telling that you want to rely on it, and that in turn could distort you sense of SA. So in that context, it does indeed weaken your SA.

Way to misquote me. I never said or even implied that I want to rely on ADS-B, and I refute your assertion that this will distort my sense of situational awareness. I think you're wrong. The more data I have about the situation, the more aware I can be. We may agree to disagree.

If you really believed what you're saying, you would advocate that no drones should be capable of receiving ADS-B because it always reduces a pilot's ability to be safe. Is that really what you're saying?

 

[Ty Pilot]

If you really believed what you're saying, you would advocate that no drones should be capable of receiving ADS-B because it always reduces a pilot's ability to be safe. Is that really what you're saying?

No not at all. But when a pilot comes on a forum like this and starts a thread stating how the FAA is out of touch, and what they should do, or could do better in their training - in several different posts, there seems to be a pattern. I get that you think the FAA needs to be more 'hands on' in its training, but I disagree.

No misquoting here, (below) in your own words, you described a perfect scenario of why VLOS is the standard for UA airspace awareness, (BTW, I have encountered this exact same thing with a Sheriff's helicopter while on a job years back). Of note is that after your first sentence describing the encounter, the first thing that came to mind was "No ADS-B signal". It seems as if that caught you off guard, as if you expected it should have had an active ADS-B transmitter

I was flying in class G airspace, did my B4YouFly, far from any airport, was flying over water at about 100 feet altitude and 300 feet distance, when a Navy Coastguard helicopter came up over a nearby hill on the other side of the water. No ADS-B signal. It was flying low and fast and straight towards my drone and me so I had what seemed like seconds to decide what to do. Me, the drone, and the helicopter were almost in a straight line. The helicopter came so close I could recognize the individual faces of the people in the helicopter.

What I am saying is that detection of manned aviation is best achieved by VLOS and any attempts to transfer that job off to some incomplete detection system (from a UA pilot's perspective), is asking for trouble.

ADS-B does not give enough details about the aircraft's position, speed and altitude to make an informed decision as to what our response should be other than to lower the drone, get in a hover and try to discern where that aircraft is and if its safe to continue. in fact you'll find where an aircraft just skirts close enough to trigger that warning and is never seen or heard.

For these reasons I say that ADS-B (as of now), should not be relied upon nor do I think it enhances a PIC's SA reliably or accurately enough, to be considered useful.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

I don't see a need for ADS-B in a drone. I don't fly my drone above 400' and I don't fly my airplane below 1000'

 

[Big Bro]

I don't fly my airplane below 1000'

Must be really hard to take off or land!