5m or not 5m

[Chapperz]

Hi all

I'm properly baffled with the regulations. If I have a drone (air 2s for example) that is between 500gr and 2kg, some people / articles states that I can fly as close as 5m to people as long as it's safe but, the CAA site states otherwise.

Can somebody please help me to clarify this...

Thanks

 

[GFields]

CAA site states otherwise.

Greetings from Birmingham Alabama USA, welcome to the forum! We look forward to hearing from you!

Stick with what the CAA states

 

[Chapperz]

Greetings from Birmingham Alabama USA, welcome to the forum! We look forward to hearing from you!

Stick with what the CAA states

Yeah I think that's the way to go to go... It's a bit disappointing really because as it stands the current regulations in the UK state that between 500gr and 2kg is subcategory A2 which is close to (50m minimum) and not overfly people which is a ball ache for what I need a drone for. That said there's some misleading information out there and people are saying that the air 2s can be flown in A1 transitional, which is 250 to 500grm so legally it cannot and could lead to people ending up in trouble.

Well I'm waiting for the air 3 to make an appearance and hopefully it will be under 500gr, otherwise it's a mini 3 Pro for me.

Bummer

 

[Felix le Chat]

Hi all

I'm properly baffled with the regulations. If I have a drone (air 2s for example) that is between 500gr and 2kg, some people / articles states that I can fly as close as 5m to people as long as it's safe but, the CAA site states otherwise.

Can somebody please help me to clarify this...

Thanks

Simple one-sheet colour coded table guide to what's permitted in each sub-category: CAP2012. It is regularly revised. Download it from the CAA website. It's definitive and clear.

 

[Chapperz]

Simple one-sheet colour coded table guide to what's permitted in each sub-category: CAP2012. It is regularly revised. Download it from the CAA website. It's definitive and clear.

I have it... This is why I am praying that the new air 3 comes in under 500gms

Under 500gms with them omnivision ov48c sensors...

48mp with on chip HDR etc... I'll have some of that

 

[WanderLost]

Hi all

I'm properly baffled with the regulations. If I have a drone (air 2s for example) that is between 500gr and 2kg, some people / articles states that I can fly as close as 5m to people as long as it's safe but, the CAA site states otherwise.

Can somebody please help me to clarify this...

Thanks

There's the manufacturers certifications and then government regulations. Not the same unfortunately. In Canada, Transport Canada uses the manufacturers certifications, so, for example, my Air 2S and Mavic 3 both have obstacle avoidance sensors so the regs allow flights up to 5m away from people, but not over.
You can fly over people on the way somewhere at a decent height (30m I believe) but you cannot hover or linger over people or - especially - a crowd.
The existing and upcoming UK regs, especially for A3 category seem very very strict. I would imagine commercial operators will have to apply for SFOCs or something similar but it's quickly restricting hobbyists to flying over water or the Arctic circle or something.

 

[Felix le Chat]

There's the manufacturers certifications and then government regulations. Not the same unfortunately. In Canada, Transport Canada uses the manufacturers certifications, so, for example, my Air 2S and Mavic 3 both have obstacle avoidance sensors so the regs allow flights up to 5m away from people, but not over.
You can fly over people on the way somewhere at a decent height (30m I believe) but you cannot hover or linger over people or - especially - a crowd.
The existing and upcoming UK regs, especially for A3 category seem very very strict. I would imagine commercial operators will have to apply for SFOCs or something similar but it's quickly restricting hobbyists to flying over water or the Arctic circle or something.

The UK equivalent to SFOC is PDRA: Pre Determined Risk Assessment, laid down in CAP722h. The UK rulebook is re-written, revised and added to every few months and the specific intention seems to be to freeze the hobbyist and small scale commercial operator out by creating so much bureaucratic red tape that people just give up trying to fly. Something that is set to continue and succeed unless fliers get their **** together and form a proper union so that we have a genuine voice in the preparation of legislation both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[WanderLost]

The UK equivalent to SFOC is PDRA: Pre Determined Risk Assessment, laid down in CAP722h. The UK rulebook is re-written, revised and added to every few months and the specific intention seems to be to freeze the hobbyist and small scale commercial operator out by creating so much bureaucratic red tape that people just give up trying to fly. Something that is set to continue and succeed unless fliers get their **** together and form a proper union so that we have a genuine voice in the preparation of legislation both sides of the Atlantic.

We have a Drone association here in Canada that frequently meets with Transport Canada to discuss users needs/wants/desires and to talk about changes to the regulations that can hopefully benefit fliers but still leave regs in place for more heavy duty applications.
There are a number of changes being considered and there is a consultation window open until September where groups or individuals can give feedback.
One of the things not on the table is RID which is presently necessary in US come September.
They are actually looking at ways to incorporate BVLOS for building inspections and commercial entities for example and for small operators to do roof inspections and real estate photography in built-up areas. We are hoping that comes to pass without any new onerous requirements beyond having your license and registration.

 

[Felix le Chat]

We have a Drone association here in Canada that frequently meets with Transport Canada to discuss users needs/wants/desires and to talk about changes to the regulations that can hopefully benefit fliers but still leave regs in place for more heavy duty applications.
There are a number of changes being considered and there is a consultation window open until September where groups or individuals can give feedback.
One of the things not on the table is RID which is presently necessary in US come September.
They are actually looking at ways to incorporate BVLOS for building inspections and commercial entities for example and for small operators to do roof inspections and real estate photography in built-up areas. We are hoping that comes to pass without any new onerous requirements beyond having your license and registration.

The real problem in the UK is the EU. Even though they were told to go take a hike in 2019: the majority of their diktats are still in place and to all intents and purposes, they still pull the strings so what we end up with is EASA regulation spray-painted with a Union Jack. I'd like to think all of us lone wolves and sole traders might have a valid voice in the none too distant future, but I'm cynical enough to know that the real lobby lies in the hands of those with big expense accounts who represent large scale commercial interest.... Because they have the resources to grease the cogs.

 

[Chapperz]

The UK equivalent to SFOC is PDRA: Pre Determined Risk Assessment, laid down in CAP722h. The UK rulebook is re-written, revised and added to every few months and the specific intention seems to be to freeze the hobbyist and small scale commercial operator out by creating so much bureaucratic red tape that people just give up trying to fly. Something that is set to continue and succeed unless fliers get their **** together and form a proper union so that we have a genuine voice in the preparation of legislation both sides of the Atlantic.

Yup

And these fkn auditors going around causing a deliberate nuisance to create a confrontation just for views and likes ain't fkn helping either.

Anyway, it seems we have up to 2026 to get our arse in gear but I'm all for joining / helping to form a union. Is there a union at present and if not, how would we go about forming one?

 

[Chapperz]

The real problem in the UK is the EU. Even though they were told to go take a hike in 2019: the majority of their diktats are still in place and to all intents and purposes, they still pull the strings so what we end up with is EASA regulation spray-painted with a Union Jack. I'd like to think all of us lone wolves and sole traders might have a valid voice in the none too distant future, but I'm cynical enough to know that the real lobby lies in the hands of those with big expense accounts who represent large scale commercial interest.... Because they have the resources to grease the cogs.

That sounds about right to me....

 

[Felix le Chat]

Yup

And these fkn auditors going around causing a deliberate nuisance to create a confrontation just for views and likes ain't fkn helping either.

Anyway, it seems we have up to 2026 to get our arse in gear but I'm all for joining / helping to form a union. Is there a union at present and if not, how would we go about forming one?

There is a Danish YouTuber (pretty popular if somewhat irritating) who has picked up the suggestion and is having a crack at it, but being realistic, any confederation or union needs a platform: dues-paying members (to provide the grease for the lobbying cogs), one or more high profile individuals to act as point-of contact/engagement and the ear of at least one relatively straight MP. The one UK based, well established drone "club": the Grey Arrows might already have the organization, the web infrastructure, the active membership and reach to start the ball rolling, but that depends on whether enough individual drone 'hobbyists' and small aerial service providers can be arsed to act in concert....

...and I think that might be akin to herding cats.. .

 

[Chapperz]

There is a Danish YouTuber (pretty popular if somewhat irritating) who has picked up the suggestion and is having a crack at it, but being realistic, any confederation or union needs a platform: dues-paying members (to provide the grease for the lobbying cogs), one or more high profile individuals to act as point-of contact/engagement and the ear of at least one relatively straight MP.

OK so let's create a platform... I can build a website for it... What say we start a thread and get cracking? I have no idea about how to start a union but I can definitely help with the website etc.

 

[Felix le Chat]

OK so let's create a platform... I can build a website for it... What say we start a thread and get cracking? I have no idea about how to start a union but I can definitely help with the website etc.

Best thing to do would be to have a really good look at what the Grey Arrows offers and how it provides value for subscription, next step to address fundraising in earnest is to look into a PATREON account - but again: there needs to be an "exclusive content" commodity regularly uploaded that gives subscribers VFM.
This would address the "union subscriptions" angle, as each subscriber to the Patreon channel would automatically be a 'union' member paying a set monthly amount. Key content creator members and genuine experts in various fields could provide content and exclusive lecture/tutorial videos, but not the kind of bombastic talking-head shullbit you find with Drone University, something genuinely interesting.
Create a community hub: create a sense of community. Once there is a mass lobby, and a pot that can fund a higher level political lobbying initiative, the group of individual members ends up with a common voice that gets listened to by people with influence instead of just heard and summarily ignored.

 

[Chapperz]

Best thing to do would be to have a really good look at what the Grey Arrows offers and how it provides value for subscription, next step to address fundraising in earnest is to look into a PATREON account - but again: there needs to be an "exclusive content" commodity regularly uploaded that gives subscribers VFM.
This would address the "union subscriptions" angle, as each subscriber to the Patreon channel would automatically be a 'union' member paying a set monthly amount. Key content creator members and genuine experts in various fields could provide content and lecture/tutorial videos, but not the kind of bombastic talking-head shullbit you find with Drone University, something genuinely interesting.
Create a community hub: create a sense of community. Once there is a mass lobby, and a pot that can fund a higher level political lobbying initiative, the group of individual members ends up with a common voice that gets listened to by people with influence instead of just heard and summarily ignored.

I have a social media script that cost me a lot of money, just sitting there doing nothing.. I'd be more than happy to set it all up and get it all running if anybody here wants to jump on board and help with this... I can setup subscriptions on it which allows different access to different features etc and a hell of a lot more. I'm not very good with much else apart from the technical side at present but can learn. If anybody wants to jump on and create a team.

 

[Chapperz]

It's looking more and more like the only drone worth having, outside of full scale commercial operations, is a mini... If I to do work for estate agents like videos and photos, or roof inspirations etc in residential areas, it's going to have to be a mini 3 Pro and then, for landscape photography, something bigger... I have been waiting for the air 3 but that's never going to be under 500gms much less 250 so for me, flying in built up / residencial areas with people which is where most of my work is going to be, for property photography and inspections.... Mini 3 Pro it is.

That seem about right to you chaps and chapettes?

 

[Jamesz]

The real problem in the UK is the EU. Even though they were told to go take a hike in 2019: the majority of their diktats are still in place and to all intents and purposes, they still pull the strings so what we end up with is EASA regulation spray-painted with a Union Jack. I'd like to think all of us lone wolves and sole traders might have a valid voice in the none too distant future, but I'm cynical enough to know that the real lobby lies in the hands of those with big expense accounts who represent large scale commercial interest.... Because they have the resources to grease the cogs.

The real problem in the UK is the EU. Even though they were told to go take a hike in 2019: the majority of their diktats are still in place and to all intents and purposes, they still pull the strings so what we end up with is EASA regulation spray-painted with a Union Jack. I'd like to think all of us lone wolves and sole traders might have a valid voice in the none too distant future, but I'm cynical enough to know that the real lobby lies in the hands of those with big expense accounts who represent large scale commercial interest.... Because they have the resources to grease the cogs.

It's ludicrous trying to blame the EU for this. The EU did a great job in standardising and harmonising a range of often conflicing national rules in an emerging market. They were agreed by negotiation, not 'diktats' Once the UK left the EU, it was entirely free to set its own regulations - and accept the consequences. In what way could the EU ' pull the strings' in this commercial area?
The CAA is certainly edging the hobby flier out of lower airspace, but this is home-grown stupidity, not one you can add to an anti- EU rant.

 

[Chapperz]

It's ludicrous trying to blame the EU for this. The EU did a great job in standardising and harmonising a range of often conflicing national rules in an emerging market. They were agreed by negotiation, not 'diktats' Once the UK left the EU, it was entirely free to set its own regulations - and accept the consequences. In what way could the EU ' pull the strings' in this commercial area?
The CAA is certainly edging the hobby flier out of lower airspace, but this is home-grown stupidity, not one you can add to an anti- EU rant.

I totally agree with you on that... The CAA was going to use the same drone categories that the EU were which would have made things much more straight forward and easier for manufacturers and pilots. They u-turned.

What I suspect is that there's a bunch of people now trying to make semdelves important in order to pump people for money in the same way that trades are in construction.

If they would have adopted the EU way of doing things then the drone department of the CAA would have had no use from what I can see. Just a few people trying to jump on an opportunity to make themselves relevant and important and pump people for money.

What doesn't help is the prats all over social media BLATANTLY breaking the rules and, the so called auditors who deliberately antagonise the police.

Don't get me wrong, I know very well that police rarely understand the laws they enforce and often break the law and abuse their power to maliciously prosocute people they take personal offence to and should quite rightly be taken to task, but going to places where you're going to cause a nuisance, just because you know you can deliberately in order to get a reaction for likes and clicks isn't helping the situation at all!

It's a very precarious situation at present, and if we're all not very careful it'll be even worse after 2026 than it is now because if certain group drone-adverse power-drunk narcissists can present enough evidence of people causing enough nuisance, it will be over for hobiest and recreational drone pilots!

This, I suspect is what certain people want so they can manopolise the industry and push out the little people and cash in.


People doing stupid things with drones and causing a nuisance because they think it's funny and cleaver won't be fkn laughing when there's an outright ban or, at best, there's a manditory theory and a practical test and a legal requirement for insurance just to fly a poxy toy drone in your garden or park.

Imagine that and then the same rules for sub 250g drones as for A3 category?

Yeah that'll be funny won't it.

Rant over lol