a question concerning a distance flight where primary and secondary controllers are involved

[Deleted member 103366]

For those drones that can have a primary and secondary controller what would be the legal situation, separately for FCC and CAA jurisdictions, if one pilot and controller remained at the launch point whilst the other pilot and controller followed the drone such that the moving pilot always had VLOS of the drone. The drone being flown away from the launch point until the connection between the controller at the launch point and the drone is lost?

This is for me a purely hypothetical situation that came to mind a couple of days ago, I have no intention of trying it.

From the legal viewpoint would it matter which controller was the primary?

 

[old man mavic]

@PhiliusFoggg,the primary RC always has priority over the secondary,and once connection was lost then the drone would return to the home point, which would be the primary as in order to get airborne then the primary would have been required for the initial take off,
the primary RC can override the secondary RC but not visa versa
the pilot at the home point is always going to have to have VLOS .irrespective of whether the person with the secondary RC follows it or not ,the secondary RC has limited abilities for control of the drone and really although the person with the secondary can learn to fly using the system,it is still the person with the primary who would be classed as the PIC,the idea of having two controllers ,was apart from a way to allow someone to experience flying a drone,knowing that a competent pilot was there to take over control, in the event of an emergency ,but also as a way for one person to control the drones flight and the other one to control the camera ,so splitting the two elements apart ,as is done with large commercial drones halving the workload of each pilot

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Thanks OMM, umm sorry but a couple of points.
Firstly the secondary can start the motors and launch the drone irrespective of the status of the primary.
Secondly, providing one of the controllers is connected to the drone the other controller, be this the primary or the secondary, can be switched off and an RTH is not initiated.
I have just tested both of these scenarios.

I see your point about it being the primary that should be the closer to the drone controller.

I did discover something odd.
If, whilst maneuvering the drone via the primary, the RTH button on the secondary is pressed the RTH process is 'started' but joystick inputs from the primary can delay the commencement of the RTH movements (climb etc. as I was below the RTH height ), as soon as the primary's joysticks are released the climb to RTH height etc. began.
I should have tried pressing the primary's RTH button whilst using the secondary to maneuver but the battery was getting low.

 

[Rich QR]

Under Part 107, section 107.31 recognizes three roles: The remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the controls. The person manipulating the controls may be the same individual as the pilot in command, and the use of a visual observer is optional, so even though there are three roles, there might be one, two, or three individual persons involved. 107.31 insists that the people holding all three of those roles maintain VLOS throughout the entire flight.

So if your RPIC stays at the launch point, the drone can't legally be flown beyond the RPIC's line of sight, regardless of whether a person manipulating controls at another location can see the drone.

However, there is an interesting bit of wording in 107.19(a), which says "A remote pilot in command must be designated before or during the flight of the small unmanned aircraft." (emphasis mine). In my totally unreliable opinion, that seems to indicate that, during the flight, you may hand off the duties of RPIC from one individual to another, provided both individuals meet the requirements to act as RPIC. What else could that "or during" phrase mean? Surely it doesn't mean that you can take off without a pilot in command, and only designate someone as RPIC a few minutes before landing in order to make the flight legal! Note that there is no explicit requirement that the different pilots in command be co-located.

It seems that, if the two certificated pilots in command were able to effectively coordinate their communications, they should be able to hand off control and RPIC designation from one to another. Both would have to have VLOS during the handoff. But the person who is not designated RPIC wouldn't have to maintain VLOS during the time he's not playing any role in the flight. I may be wrong here, however.

I can't find any mention in the rules about multiple controllers, or which one might be designated primary or secondary, or anything like that. Those seem to be details that the rules don't directly address.

 

[umanbean]

This is for me a purely hypothetical situation that came to mind a couple of days ago, I have no intention of trying it.

From the legal viewpoint would it matter which controller was the primary?

Great question, good thinking! Although I have no direct experience to answer your question, I'll be looking forward to reading the rest of these fine answers!