Advice Appreciated - ND Filter vs Higher Shutter Speed

[EricJT]

Began my 2021 M2P flying season yesterday and was scanning through the images and video last evening when a past forum discussion got me to thinking about ND filters.

I typically use a Freewell variable ND filter set to "0" for stills and a higher darker filter setting for video to achieve the inverse of the fps for shutter speed (i.e. 30fps and 1/60 shutter speed). The only problem with that is I need to land and adjust the filter when switching between stills and video or vice versa.

Today I took the variable ND filter off and set each of the stills and video to manual...for video I used ISO 100, aperture 4.5 and shutter speed to a higher value than the inverse of the fps to the point the EV was 0 and the sky was not blown out (no zebra stripes).

The resulting 4k video looks fine to me....am I missing something here when it comes to using a shutter speed that prevents blown out skys rather than using an ND filter?

 

[JeffreyS]

Shutter speed alone does not create blown out skies, etc. Proper exposure is a combination of three factors, SS, f stop and ISO. I never would use Nd's (even set to '0') for still imaging. I would use them for video in bright daylight to achieve a 60 fps at my desired f stop, usually around 7 or 8.

 

[EricJT]

Shutter speed alone does not create blown out skies, etc. Proper exposure is a combination of three factors, SS, f stop and ISO. I never would use Nd's (even set to '0') for still imaging. I would use them for video in bright daylight to achieve a 60 fps at my desired f stop, usually around 7 or 8.

Okay, after posting what I wrote below, I did some online research and now understand what setting a much higher shutter speed than 2x means for the results.

Thanks for your reply.... I understand the exposure triangle....I have two DSLRs that I shoot typically in full manual or aperture priority with ISO 100 and let the shutter speed vary for landscape shots.

I am not as familiar with video in full manual mode. When I set the M2P video to ISO 100, aperture 4.5 and 30fps, if the shutter speed is 1/60 on a sunny day, like today, the southern sky tends to be too bright (zebra stripes). If I increase the shutter speed, it is less bright and the EV is better and the zebra stripes disappear.

Not sure if I am explaining the situation clearly enough.....just trying to get away from an ND filter.

 

[offtheback]

Okay, after posting what I wrote below, I did some online research and now understand what setting a much higher shutter speed than 2x means for the results.

Thanks for your reply.... I understand the exposure triangle....I have two DSLRs that I shoot typically in full manual or aperture priority with ISO 100 and let the shutter speed vary for landscape shots.

I am not as familiar with video in full manual mode. When I set the M2P video to ISO 100, aperture 4.5 and 30fps, if the shutter speed is 1/60 on a sunny day, like today, the southern sky tends to be too bright (zebra stripes). If I increase the shutter speed, it is less bright and the EV is better and the zebra stripes disappear.

Not sure if I am explaining the situation clearly enough.....just trying to get away from an ND filter.

Perhaps you can shoot a comparison of 2 or 3 clips at the proper(for video)shutter speed and without ND's at higher shutter speed to observe the motion of people or cars moving to see which looks like normal motion or I am being too obvious?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

The only problem with that is I need to land and adjust the filter when switching between stills and video or vice versa.

If you want the crispest / sharpest photos, then the above is true and a necessary hassle.
When I take off, it's to video or photograph, but if I'm running an ND4 or ND8, I don't mind snapping off a photo if a good opportunity presents itself.
Even a C-PL or MC-UV filter slows shutter speed, I think mine are around 1-1/2 stops.

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

ND filter has no place in photographs unless it's a graduated ND filter for keeping open sky within dynamic range or to get a slow shutterspeed for blurring moving objects like water or cars in brighter light. For video they are most often used to get a slower shutter speed to introduce motion blur from frame to frame which looks more natural to your eyes. Some frame rates like 30fps will get a stuttering effect especially when panning the camera and moving across objects at certain distances (usually closer). Red cameras has an entire series on the most common video issues and how to lessen or alleviate them that @slup shared with me. RED.com
If you want some great information on making videos, there's plenty in there...

 

[Citizen Flier]

One of the best shooters I know avoids using ANY lens filters when possible (drone & DSLR), as most will degrade the images. I'm too afraid of lens scratches to not have a UV etc.
I mostly shoot stills on the M2P but will often capture a few video clips, which can require an ND. I have never done a test of ND vs No ND for stills. Has anyone here done that? Do the ND's degrade the images noticeably? I would guess they would. THnx.

 

[EricJT]

Perhaps you can shoot a comparison of 2 or 3 clips at the proper(for video)shutter speed and without ND's at higher shutter speed to observe the motion of people or cars moving to see which looks like normal motion or I am being too obvious?

No, not too obvious....I haven't had a chance to do the test but I do have a short clip shot at a high shutter speed from the other day.....here is the link and you can see some trucks in motion in the upper left quadrant....concerns/critiques?

 

[Citizen Flier]

I typically use NDs for video in bright light only. Not usually needed at golden hour.

But the question (IMO) is whether NDs degrade STILL images, as I sometimes shoot stills & video in the same flight.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

ND filters are not for bring light.

I repeat: ND filters are not for bring light.

They are (as one person already mentioned) for getting more motion blur for a more cinematic look, but after you have adjusted the slower speed (for motion blur), you still have to set the proper exposure THE SAME AS YOU WOULD WITHOUT THE FILTER.

It has nothing to do with "taming a bright sun" or anything like that.

Let's say you had no filter, and a manual setting that was correct / proper. But it's bright sun. If you get blow outs, you have to increase shutter speed or reduce the aperture to compensate. No blow out.

Then you put an ND filter on and still have the same manual settings, You are now under exposing. So compensate with a slower shutter speed to get the exposure proper again (and at the same time getting motion blur).

On both situations (with or without ND flters), you have either set the proper exposure to avoid blowouts, or you haven't. The ND filter is not the cure for that.

If you continue to use it thinking it's fixing the blown out thing, you're fooling yourself.

And if you're doing that AND taking stills with that filter on, you're probably making unsharp (burry) images.

Chris

PS: this is all true with an AUTO or semi-AUTO (aperture or shutter priority) exposure method

PSS: yes, pro photographers do not put cheap UV filters on very expensive lenses, but we don't have one of those on our Mavics. Go ahead use the ND filters if you know what they're for.

 

[hiflyer201]

It's all a compromise it seems. My biggest disappointments have been one chance only video flights late in the day that ended up only so so but the "throw away" still photos that I just sort of fired off turned out pretty darn good and... I know would have been much much sharper if I hadn't had that darn the filter and the resulting slow shutter speed.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

It's all a compromise it seems. My biggest disappointments have been one chance only video flights late in the day that ended up only so so but the "throw away" still photos that I just sort of fired off turned out pretty darn good and... I know would have been much much sharper if I hadn't had that darn the filter and the resulting slow shutter speed.

Of course, I still fire off stills when up in the air with an ND filter on as well. I just don't hope for much. ;-)

And when my flight is launched specifically for still photography and no video, I don't put any ND filter on, or if I shoot video, I realize I won't have the slower shutter speed (motion blur can be faked in post if one has to).

Note that I use ND filters for stills all the time on ground-based DSLR photography, typically on a tripod, but that's another scenario quite different from drone still photography.

Chris

 

[manowar_gub]

m2p has visible rolling shutter issue, it depend on sensor readout parameter and measured in msec

It seems very noticable when drone speed is high / or your pano speed too fast

The solution is

1. Lower drone speed (your sample fits that), in web a lot of calc which can get your movement speed in degreece / sec

2. Use 60+ framespeed resulting object in video dont jump hard from 1 frame to 2nd frame (as in 30p or 24p) coz extra frames in 50/60p saves object movement smoothly

3. use ND filter to reduce shutter speed. At 30p object will also jump hard between frames but shutter speed in 1/50...1/100 will smooth frames and your eye dont find defect because it will be blurry

have fun^^