Altitude regs and other aircraft. (UK )

[karlak]

So..

Someone was flying their Mavic at 350ft and in line of site, when all of a sudden you hear a loud Helicopter sound, asks the spotter where is it and start to descend immediately, spotter calls out he can see the Helicopter just come over the treeline and it is heading straight for us and is LOWER than the Mavic is - STOP descending !!, literally five seconds later a Merlin Helicopter comes right overhead at no more than 100ft height at full bore and is actually directly UNDER the Mavic as it passes, then carried on hugging tree tops until out of view.

Was a bit surreal to say the very least, but also very concerning. This was a recognised RC flying field and the Pilot of the Merlin chose to fly at very low altitude and at pretty much what seemed to be flat out speed. Today there was no other RC fliers, but on another day there could have been a number of models at the altitude he came through at.

All a bit concerning really.

 

[Jimbob]

Yes I have to say I did almost SOIL myslef !!!!

 

[karlak]

It was one of those stories that if someone had told me, I would have thought "yeh right".

 

[Pedro]

Where's the video??!!

 

[the-bunker]

Contact the nearest airfield to get your RC site on the Notam list - then no pilot is allowed to fly less than 500 ft over your site.

 

[karlak]

Where's the video??!!

Wasnt recording and my cache was full.. Gutted.

 

[Merlin83b]

I'm not sure what the NOTAM list is, but you can get a free listing of NOTAMs in all sorts of places and there's no need to get in touch with an airfield to do so. A NOTAM may have announced today's (presumably miltary) Merlin as part of an exercise. I'd be happy to check for you if you can give your location?

 

[karlak]

I'm not sure what the NOTAM list is, but you can get a free listing of NOTAMs in all sorts of places and there's no need to get in touch with an airfield to do so. A NOTAM may have announced today's (presumably miltary) Merlin as part of an exercise. I'd be happy to check for you if you can give your location?

It was near Flitwick In Bedfordshire.

 

[Merlin83b]

Nothing NOTAMed for today in that area I'm afraid.

 

[Pedro]

Wasnt recording and my cache was full.. Gutted.

Ah, shame.. Tough luck.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

If it was a military aircraft they aren't subject to the ANO so they can pretty much do what they want including beating up your field at 100ft. That said, if you think the incident could have been dangerous, and it certainly sounds it, you should do whatever you can to minimise the chance of it happening again.

If you contact the NATS AIS NOTAM office NATS | AIS - Home they may be able to help you establish whether the area you were in, which you said is a known popular model aircraft flying area, is already NOTAM'd as such and if not help you get it announced.

 

[karlak]

If it was a military aircraft they aren't subject to the ANO so they can pretty much do what they want including beating up your field at 100ft. That said, if you think the incident could have been dangerous, and it certainly sounds it, you should do whatever you can to minimise the chance of it happening again.

If you contact the NATS AIS NOTAM office NATS | AIS - Home they may be able to help you establish whether the area you were in, which you said is a known popular model aircraft flying area, is already NOTAM'd as such and if not help you get it announced.

I have emailed the Flying Clubs chairman, who is going to inform the BMFA.

 

[Mission North]

The NATS Drone Assist app shows NOTAMs including military exercises, but does not show most low flying military aircraft. And even if you go through the 'fly now' declaration in the app it doesn't seem to stop them flying in the area you have declared.

In order to reduce the risk of meeting one of these low flying aircraft I am building a portable alarm. It is built from a Raspberry Pi computer (probably a Pi Zero to keep the power consumption down), a USB TV dongle and a piezo buzzer. It also has an epaper display panel, though this is optional as they are rather expensive and delicate. The software is a program called dump1090 and a python script that I am modifying from someone else's code. It runs on a usb phone charging battery. It monitors ADS-B transmissions from passing aircraft and bleeps when it detects one at below 2000 feet or with a known military callsign.

This afternoon's visitor was ASCOT486, an RAF A400m transport plane.

When it is finished I will make the code available on the forums.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Mission North I've seen your hack in other threads - very nice indeed, not likely useful for me where I fly but nonetheless...

A NOTAM won't stop anyone, even civil pilots, flying through a model flying area as it's purely for information, hopefully at least most pilots will see it and avoid the affected airspace but ultimately in class G we're all "see and avoid" so saying "I'll be flying here" doesn't give any assurance that someone else won't also be. Generally though, without a good reason like doing a practise forced landing, you're not going to see civil light aircraft below 400' AGL unless they're landing or taking off, it's the military that are habitually low flying and they aren't subject to the 500' from any person, vessel vehicle or structure rule that applies to civilian pilots.

The other concern is that the military who are the most likely to beat you up below 400' are also the very same ones who are least likely to be transponding or carrying ADS-B for your device to pick them up - hopefully they do so at least when not operationally necessary to refrain, but they will at least sometimes be radio-dark and that's their right just as it's anyone else's in class G airspace - there's no requirement to even carry a transponder or radio, let alone operate it.

Ultimately, a model still has to give way when a Mil Acft unexpectedly tears through at treetop level, which ain't particularly sporting but there it is.

 

[brucey]

Eek, sounds scary. Did you see this thread FPV HUB FPV HUB Drone operator files Airprox report

Drone operator filed an airprox report

 

[karlak]

Eek, sounds scary. Did you see this thread FPV HUB FPV HUB Drone operator files Airprox report

Drone operator filed an airprox report

Was weird, as it was scary and a bit of panic did set in, but at the same time an awesome sight to see the Merlin so low and fast directly overhead. What did occur to me was seeing the size of the Helicopter in this case and how small the Mavic is, makes you wonder if there was a collision is there any way the Mavic could of seriously harmed the Merlin.

I saw the report, but will hold off. Knowing how these things go, if this is going to be a regular route for the Military and the fact it happened at the flying club field, I could see the authorities forcing the Club to close - just how things tend to go.

When I got back home, there were two Chinooks doing low levels down the runway of the airfield where I live, so I think there was definitely some sort of operation going on locally.

 

[brucey]

Yeah I bet it was an awesome sight.

I don't think they have regular routes, guess that's part of the training.

 

[karlak]

So, I logged the "near miss" with Airprox UK and they have now filed a report on the incident. Seems I got my Helicopter type wrong, it was a Puma not a Merlin and it also seems the Pilot wasn't aware at all.

Link for the reports is below and my specific incident is AIRPROX BOARD Reference: 2017063



http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/Standard_content/Airprox_report_files/2017/New_assessed_reports/Airprox Report 2017063.pdf