Be Prepared for Uninformed Police..

jpbluzharp · Mar 20, 2017

Had a local EPA cop roll up on me this morning while shooting a bridge over the local reservoir. He asked me to shut down my drone and to give him my driver's license etc.. He said it was illegal to fly there.

Fortunately, I was prepared with a whole lot more than that. I informed him that I was flying in class G airspace and that I could show him on the VFR sectionals on my smart phone that there were no restrictions in that area. I acknowledged that he probably didn't know about any of that kind of stuff because drones are "so new" and that I understood his dilemma. He made some calls after checking my credentials then told me to carry on.

For us to continue flying effectively, safely, and keep our skies free.. I'd encourage everyone to always carry your UAS license. Make sure your registration number is displayed prominently on your drone. And lastly, save a picture on your smart phone or iPad of the VFR sectional depicting the area of your flight as proof of your right to fly in a particular area. If you're professional, polite, and charming... as I'm sure all Mavic Pilots are.. you'll be back shooting in no time at all, with perhaps a new ally in law enforcement.

Fly safe.. let's teach people how much fun they can have!

kneeL · Mar 20, 2017

I have a question I had registered with my first drone, how can I update my license to include new drones/serial numbers?

tcope · Mar 20, 2017

kneeL said:
I have a question I had registered with my first drone, how can I update my license to include new drones/serial numbers?

You never registered your first drone. You only registered yourself as a person who flies a/any drone.

Edit: You simply put your current reg number on your new (and any) drone you have.

kneeL · Mar 20, 2017

Thanks. I could have sworn that i had to provide one of my drones' serial number when I first registered but i guess not. time to print some more stickers

kneeL · Mar 20, 2017

Also want to point out how great this advice is. All those guys on these forums and youtube who think they are super cool when being complete dickheads to park rangers or cops that approach them asking them to not fly there, are damaging to the drone hobby. Don't be a pretentious tool like the youtubers

Honestly its good advice whenever dealing with cops, drones or not. You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar. or something

Hivoltage · Mar 20, 2017

kneeL said:
Thanks. I could have sworn that i had to provide one of my drones' serial number when I first registered but i guess not. time to print some more stickers

You do on the scam registration sites. I even started a quiz before I seen the $25 fee and realized something was wrong.

Downunder · Mar 20, 2017

On what facts did base his judgement that it was illegal. Sounds like a 'jobs-worth' to me.
He should check his facts using all that technology they keep in the car as most people would accept what he says and move on. This is a very irresponsible approach to policing. He should be reported for lying or at least they should re-educate him on research before opening his mouth to the public.

erkme73 · Mar 20, 2017

Downunder said:
On what facts did base his judgement that it was illegal. Sounds like a 'jobs-worth' to me.
He should check his facts using all that technology they keep in the car as most people would accept what he says and move on. This is a very irresponsible approach to policing. He should be reported for lying or at least they should re-educate him on research before opening his mouth to the public.

Law enforcement is explicitly authorized to lie during an investigation. You, of course, can be jailed for lying to a cop. One of the hardest things for any officer of the law to digest is an informed civilian who challenges their order. Their very nature is to exude ultimate authority. A cop that says, "I'm not sure, let me check" won't be on the beat very long. Thus, most will compensate for lack of knowledge with an extra dose of over confidence. The OP was lucky to get one who was open-minded (and patient) enough to verify. In many parts of the US, simply questioning an officer's order is enough to warrant physical assault.

jpbluzharp · Mar 20, 2017

Downunder said:
On what facts did base his judgement that it was illegal. Sounds like a 'jobs-worth' to me.
He should check his facts using all that technology they keep in the car as most people would accept what he says and move on. This is a very irresponsible approach to policing. He should be reported for lying or at least they should re-educate him on research before opening his mouth to the public.

So many people in authority will respond as if they know what they're talking about just because their position of power has corrupted their judgement. "If a man is not evil or narrow upon attaining the throne, the throne will make him so." Most cops didn't graduate at the top of their classes in school. They're usually just guys who liked the idea of getting paid to be around fast cars, guns and justice... (regrettably power). This particular guy wasn't bad... he just thought that the pumping station was off limits.. The air around it wasn't. With the right information and a decent attitude you can usually educate these guys. Just be professional. Be respectful of their job and the crap they have to put up with.. Let them know you're safe and that you're well versed in the laws of aviation without putting them down.

Then invite them to look at your screen.. show them what the thing can do. It wouldn't hurt to have some cops on our side.. See if they want a cool shot of their car.. going fast.

Are you feelin' me? Might even help to keep a few spare donuts in the car.

jpbluzharp · Mar 20, 2017

erkme73 said:
Law enforcement is explicitly authorized to lie during an investigation. You, of course, can be jailed for lying to a cop. One of the hardest things for any officer of the law to digest is an informed civilian who challenges their order. Their very nature is to exude ultimate authority. A cop that says, "I'm not sure, let me check" won't be on the beat very long. Thus, most will compensate for lack of knowledge with an extra dose of over confidence. The OP was lucky to get one who was open-minded (and patient) enough to verify. In many parts of the US, simply questioning an officer's order is enough to warrant physical assault.

Honestly, when he told me it was illegal to fly there my first response was that I was an FAA licensed pilot and that I had checked the VFR sectionals and NOTAMS of the area to make sure it was legal to fly there before even attempting to fly. Confusing acronyms can be a big help sometimes. Those sectionals come in real handy too... They can't figure them out.. and you can give them some slack on their lack of knowledge on the topic. It's a good idea to teach without being pedantic. Unfortunately, it's a sad commentary on police relations that we have to do all that but... in time if we all fly safe and keep the "cowboy stuff" to a minimum... They'll have to get used to it.

I'm actually thinking of offering my services at the local police station in case there's a lost kid in the woods, a fire, blah blah blah... Who knows? You never know what might lead to a revenue stream.

SRJ_Mavic_PRO · Mar 20, 2017

jpbluzharp said:
Had a local EPA cop roll up on me this morning while shooting a bridge over the local reservoir. He asked me to shut down my drone and to give him my driver's license etc.. He said it was illegal to fly there.

Fortunately, I was prepared with a whole lot more than that. I informed him that I was flying in class G airspace and that I could show him on the VFR sectionals on my smart phone that there were no restrictions in that area. I acknowledged that he probably didn't know about any of that kind of stuff because drones are "so new" and that I understood his dilemma. He made some calls after checking my credentials then told me to carry on.

For us to continue flying effectively, safely, and keep our skies free.. I'd encourage everyone to always carry your UAS license. Make sure your registration number is displayed prominently on your drone. And lastly, save a picture on your smart phone or iPad of the VFR sectional depicting the area of your flight as proof of your right to fly in a particular area. If you're professional, polite, and charming... as I'm sure all Mavic Pilots are.. you'll be back shooting in no time at all, with perhaps a new ally in law enforcement.

Fly safe.. let's teach people how much fun they can have!

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LMAO with the music to the video! Gotta love all these wanna be cops wetting themselves over drones! Maybe he thought you were a terrorist and you would be dropping poison into his water supply. Sheesh! Nice job on setting him straight.
I had a guy walk up to me in one of the parks here in MD telling me it was illegal to fly there. First thing I told him was no I spoke with the park ranger yesterday. He immediately changed his tone and then it became a "let me show you what this thing is doing and what it can do" session. He left after 10 minutes saying he was happy I was following all the rules.....

dewster · Mar 20, 2017

I ran into a similar situation. Security guard asking me if I had permission to fly and if my craft was registered etc. i was glad RTH worked so well. I just hit the button and did some q&A on how much he actually knew.

jpbluzharp · Mar 21, 2017

jpbluzharp said:
Had a local EPA cop roll up on me this morning while shooting a bridge over the local reservoir. He asked me to shut down my drone and to give him my driver's license etc.. He said it was illegal to fly there.

Fortunately, I was prepared with a whole lot more than that. I informed him that I was flying in class G airspace and that I could show him on the VFR sectionals on my smart phone that there were no restrictions in that area. I acknowledged that he probably didn't know about any of that kind of stuff because drones are "so new" and that I understood his dilemma. He made some calls after checking my credentials then told me to carry on.

For us to continue flying effectively, safely, and keep our skies free.. I'd encourage everyone to always carry your UAS license. Make sure your registration number is displayed prominently on your drone. And lastly, save a picture on your smart phone or iPad of the VFR sectional depicting the area of your flight as proof of your right to fly in a particular area. If you're professional, polite, and charming... as I'm sure all Mavic Pilots are.. you'll be back shooting in no time at all, with perhaps a new ally in law enforcement.

Fly safe.. let's teach people how much fun they can have!

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For anyone interested.. here's the footage I was shooting when the DEP officer showed up... 24fps shutter speed 50 using a Polar Pro 16nd Polarizing filter

andy966 · Mar 21, 2017

I agree with the OP. I was flying in the city of Irvine, which is notorious for their police being just jerks because they have to deal with rich snoots all the time, and a police car rolled up on me while my drone was about 100 feet in the air and about 300 feet away from me. He said, "I got called because you are flying a drone, but to be honest, I don't think its illegal to fly a drone in this area, do you?" I told him that I was pretty sure it was not illegal. He said give me a minute while I am guessing he was either googling or looking through his computer for drone laws, and I said sure, and I proceeded to bring my drone back to land it. I didn't want it hovering out there during this conversation. He goes, "Nope, I can't find any laws that say you can't." "I am going to tell the dispatchers to stop sending us out to these calls if there is nothing illegal happening." Overall he was super polite, friendly, and didn't even claim to know the laws or tell me that it was illegal. In return I was polite and friendly and at the end he said carry on.
So someone had called the police I am guessing because they don't know what a drone is and they just don't like it flying around. At the end of the day, I still get to fly.

andy966 · Mar 21, 2017

jpbluzharp said:
For anyone interested.. here's the footage I was shooting when the DEP officer showed up... 24fps shutter speed 50 using a Polar Pro 16nd Polarizing filter

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I like your shots, especially the one where you go under the bridge backwards. I am trying to get enough courage to get those type of shots.

jpbluzharp · Mar 21, 2017

andy966 said:
I agree with the OP. I was flying in the city of Irvine, which is notorious for their police being just jerks because they have to deal with rich snoots all the time, and a police car rolled up on my while my drone was about 100 feet in the air and about 300 feet away from me. He said, "I got called because you are flying a drone, but to be honest, I don't think its illegal to fly a drone in this area, do you?" I told him that I was pretty sure it was not illegal. He said give me a minute, and I said sure, and I proceeded to bring my drone back to land it. I didn't want it hovering out there during this conversation. He goes, "Nope, I can't find any laws that say you can't." "I am going to tell the dispatchers to stop sending us out to these calls if there is nothing illegal happening." Overall he was super polite, friendly, and didn't even claim to know the laws or tell me that it was illegal. In return I was polite and friendly and at the end he said carry on.
So someone had called the police I am guessing because they don't know what a drone is and they just don't like it flying around. At the end of the day, I still get to fly.

Send that man a donut! Always nice to interact with smart people who are confident enough to admit when they don't know something. Good to have all your ducks in a row when flying... paperwork, logs, sectionals at the ready... information and professionalism go a long way!

I had a sled dog owner threaten to "shoot mine out of the sky" when I was shooting in Lake Placid. I calmly told him that he could but it would be a federal offense just like interfering with a pilot in command is. I had received clearance from the local airport manager and was totally legal.

He was dragging tourists around all day in a circle for money.. looked like torture for the dogs!

He left me alone after that but not without cursing up a storm...

I'm of the opinion that every opportunity to share our experience with onlookers is another plus for relaxing the rules a bit in the future. We're all ambassadors for this hobby or career.

Glad you had such a good experience! Now you have an ally.

jpbluzharp · Mar 21, 2017

andy966 said:
I like your shots, especially the one where you go under the bridge backwards. I am trying to get enough courage to get those type of shots.

Be careful shooting around metal bridges! They wreck havoc on the compass. The shot flying through the bridge had to be stopped because the Mavic lost its bearing and started drifting quickly towards the railing! The opening shot was taken from my landed drone... not planned!

Lapeer20m · Mar 21, 2017

I guess I'm "that guy" but I wouldn't likely provide identification, licenses or other documents that are not required. Laws may be different in other states, but in Michigan, you are not required to carry id or identify yourself unless you are engaged in certian activities, like driving.

A person can assert their rights while still being polite. Officers are often on fishing expeditions and providing extra information is rarely helpful to you.

A buddy of mine was stopped while walking because he was carrying a pistol. Officer was anti-gun. Buddy voluntarily provided id. He later received a ticket in the mail from the same cop for not using a crosswalk (or something similiar)

It was straight up fraud as he had not been outside the crosswalk. We don't live in a place where people often or ever get tickets for improper crosswalk use. Had he not voluntarily provided id he would have not been sent this bogus ticket.

I'm not anti-police. I've worked in the emergency servises my entire adult life. Some officers are truely disappointed that more people do not assert their rights by saying no or not consenting.

John Locke · Mar 21, 2017

jpbluzharp said:
Be careful shooting around metal bridges! They wreck havoc on the compass. The shot flying through the bridge had to be stopped because the Mavic lost its bearing and started drifting quickly towards the railing!

It's usually the GPS signal that gets interrupted when going under bridges, especially wide cement bridges. This can quickly put you into ATTI mode. In windy conditions this can be a bit challenging if you're not expecting the sudden drift in a direction you didn't anticipate. Flying fast under the bridge is what I do, which minimized any disconnect with GPS, if it occurs. The momentum of flying fast can help in ATTI mode to control direction and capture smooth video.

jpbluzharp · Mar 21, 2017

Lapeer20m said:
I guess I'm "that guy" but I wouldn't likely provide identification, licenses or other documents that are not required. Laws may be different in other states, but in Michigan, you are not required to carry id or identify yourself unless you are engaged in certian activities, like driving.

A person can assert their rights while still being polite. Officers are often on fishing expeditions and providing extra information is rarely helpful to you.

A buddy of mine was stopped while walking because he was carrying a pistol. Officer was anti-gun. Buddy voluntarily provided id. He later received a ticket in the mail from the same cop for not using a crosswalk (or something similiar)

It was straight up fraud as he had not been outside the crosswalk. We don't live in a place where people often or ever get tickets for improper crosswalk use. Had he not voluntarily provided id he would have not been sent this bogus ticket.

I'm not anti-police. I've worked in the emergency servises my entire adult life. Some officers are truely disappointed that more people do not assert their rights by saying no or not consenting.

In my case I had driven to the location where I was shooting. My car was parked on the road.. While I may not have liked it.. the officer had every right to ask for my driver's license.

I prefer the idea of having every legal asset I can on my side when flying. In the event that something goes wrong I can protect myself if I am certain that I have met the letter of the law. I suggest this to other pilots as well in case of accidents of any kind.

As human beings are flawed creatures.. We'll often find them in law enforcement as well as any profession. Remember when Catholic priests were thought to be righteous?

Safe flying to you!