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Close Call With Manned Aircraft

Hi all,

Today I was flying in Pacific Beach, California over the surfline and ocean. Other than taking off or landing I tend to stay over the water and not directly over or too near surfers and waders. I had VLOS of the Mavic, given it was only 1350 feet way and 75 feet in altitude. The airspace is unrestricted and therefore max altitude of 400 feet. I could visually see the Mavic, which sometimes is difficult at greater than 500 feet because of the contrasting backdrop of the sky. There is a pier, roughly 200 feet away, that I was planning to yaw along to practice video shooting.

While lining up to shoot the yaw along the pier I received a notification of a manned aircraft and checked it on the map. I assumed it was from San Diego Airport or Coronado Naval Base and could not visually see the aircraft. Within 20 seconds I started to receive a notification that a Manned Aircraft was Too Close. A few seconds later the small personal plane came around the edge of cliffside. It was hugging the beach line and flying very low.

I took evasive action and dropped the Mavic to 32 feet above the ocean, roughly the height of the pier, and headed for the shoreline. The pier is roughly 2000 feet with about 1300 feet in the water and I was about halfway down it.

The plane was flying very low, well below 400 feet. I would estimate it at less than 250 feet. Based on the flying the Mavic afterwards at 150 feet in the same location it appeared to be the same height. It crossed over the pier and and continued flying at that height. As I stated before there were surfers out in the water about halfway down the pier, the pier had people on it along with hotel structures.

This seems incredible dangerous for a manned personal aircraft to be flying this low so close to a pier with people on it and surfers in the water. There is a distinct difference between a 1.5 lbs drone and small aircraft in regards to safety and consequences of a crash.

I have attached two screenshots of the flight log.

I am seeking advice on whether to report this to FAA. My panic is not relevant in comparison to the hazard it poses to the people in close proximity to the aircraft's flight path. Did I do anything wrong?

View attachment 115064View attachment 115065s

Interesting. How did the App know there was a manned aircraft in your location?
 
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Just k
I would get the tail number and call the closest tower or/and FAA. At the very least have a chat and get clarity on their expectations.

I am not familiar with zero ceiling flight zones. Where I come from its 500 feet unless in a designated low flying training zone, which are all over farm land. Our military do fly low, but a long way from civilisation.

I also fly my MP at a beach in the Coromandel in New Zealand. We get aircraft flying low along the surf line. Must be a nice view, but separation with my 400 ft ceiling gets challenged, I think. As pointed out in the comments altitude can be hard to judge. But at 50ft AGL you are bound to be safe.

Of course the real problem is choppers which are allowed to fly approaches to private land. And do around me from time to time. Run and hide at that point...

Safe flying.
Keep in mind that training can get lower flights. I am retired USAF and rode second seat on a lot of practice sorties. We were near supersonic frequently at altitudes of 100’ or less. Cool to do! But causes me to avoid USAF practice range areas.
 
I had a similar experience flying in Pacific Beach last week while taking pictures of Bird Rock. Mine was a helicopter and I have no idea what he was doing that low and close to the beach. The really frightening thing was that I did not see or hear him until he seemed to be right on top of me. I dove down and away as fast as I could to the point that I thought I was going into the water. I don‘t think he ever saw me because he did not take any evasive action, but I sure started to look around more.
 
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I had a similar experience flying in Pacific Beach last week while taking pictures of Bird Rock. Mine was a helicopter and I have no idea what he was doing that low and close to the beach. The really frightening thing was that I did not see or hear him until he seemed to be right on top of me. I dove down and away as fast as I could to the point that I thought I was going into the water. I don‘t think he ever saw me because he did not take any evasive action, but I sure started to look around more.

Was the Helicopter Military? This was a small personal plane.

The disconcerting part for me is the proximity to the people on the pier and waterline in an aircraft that appeared to be personal. If it is military I have no qualm or concern with them flying at low altitude or close to people. The VLOS rule is there for a reason and it is my duty to maintain visual awareness of the flight area, which I was doing.

I like to fly from Chula Vista Bay Front Park to Coronado Cays/Crown Point across Coronado Bay and back. I have had SeaHawk helicopters pass through the area at low altitudes while I am in mid-flight. I just lower my altitude and maintained my course. Not a big deal. When I fly there because of the Military air traffic I submit a request through Airmap.

As I do not have an obligation to report this to the FAA, I am going to leave well enough alone. I have never alleged that the pilot was doing anything wrong. I assume the pilot followed FAA protocol. As a recreational flyer in unrestricted airspace I did not file a flight plan or area. That may have been a mistake on my part as it would have benefited other pilots in the area with better situational awareness. Possibly with that information the aircraft may have avoided that area.

I am not indignant or all knowing. Therefore, it would be highly probable that my application to the self appointed Drone Police would be rejected. So, I looked to the forum for clarification on whether an encounter like this needed to be reported to the FAA as a safety concern.
 
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Why not just call the local FSDO and ask if aircraft can legally fly that low at that location. You can ask about airspace or other questions without saying anything about the aircraft's N number as well as not disclosing you were flying a drone. It seems like that is all you want to know.
 
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Just k

Keep in mind that training can get lower flights. I am retired USAF and rode second seat on a lot of practice sorties. We were near supersonic frequently at altitudes of 100’ or less. Cool to do! But causes me to avoid USAF practice range areas.
Must have been a blast!!! Mind you a 100ft pass at a beach would secure you a job flying a desk forever. Yeh stay away from military sites. Those guys do things differently...
 
Must have been a blast!!! Mind you a 100ft pass at a beach would secure you a job flying a desk forever. Yeh stay away from military sites. Those guys do things differently...
Just k

Keep in mind that training can get lower flights. I am retired USAF and rode second seat on a lot of practice sorties. We were near supersonic frequently at altitudes of 100’ or less. Cool to do! But causes me to avoid USAF practice range areas.
I flew a C152 and wasn't allowed to fly at 100ft. I did a low pass over my Dad playing golf once (dipped below 500ft) and got hauled up by the tower. My instructor gave me the mandatory lecture, then laughed, said we all did that when learning, but don't do it again! (not laughing now). It was before transponders were common so someone wrote down my tail number and phoned in on a landline from the clubhouse. I was close enough to see the rego easily ;-0 ZK-FCQ Also had a look see at some fishing boats too from time to time. No-one called it in. But would not dream of flying low over a crowded beach, or people generally.
 
I flew a C152 and wasn't allowed to fly at 100ft. I did a low pass over my Dad playing golf once (dipped below 500ft) and got hauled up by the tower. My instructor gave me the mandatory lecture, then laughed, said we all did that when learning, but don't do it again! (not laughing now). It was before transponders were common so someone wrote down my tail number and phoned in on a landline from the clubhouse. I was close enough to see the rego easily ;-0 ZK-FCQ Also had a look see at some fishing boats too from time to time. No-one called it in. But would not dream of flying low over a crowded beach, or people generally.
Agreed... we were flying Over the distant desert well away from roads and people. Certainly better than the Apache copters buzzing traffic on AZ 87 back in the hay day of Williams AFB.
 
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I had a similar experience flying in Pacific Beach last week while taking pictures of Bird Rock. Mine was a helicopter and I have no idea what he was doing that low and close to the beach. The really frightening thing was that I did not see or hear him until he seemed to be right on top of me. I dove down and away as fast as I could to the point that I thought I was going into the water. I don‘t think he ever saw me because he did not take any evasive action, but I sure started to look around more.
Me too. In my case I was in a park on a hill in a city and the helo failed to change altitude to reflect the underlying ground contours and therefore breached the AGL rules. Common occurrence in a city of volcanic cones. Appeared without warning, close loud and fast. Fortunately the MP was standing back from the hill taking a long shot so was not close. I still descended rapidly. I missed the tail number and did not think to look at Flightradar24, I was using the DJI App after all and focused on landing safely.

I have had the same occur in more isolated areas where a helicopter will pop over a ridge without ascending. Would certainly mash the MP if it was close.
 
FYI ! Lots of cool places to fly in San Diego County. Why deal with all the airspace issues in that area ?
Go North County , Del mar ,Solana Beach, Cardiff by the sea , Encinitas , Leucadia and my favorite Carlsbad !!!
AL

Definitely a lot of places to fly if you just look. I can be tough with the airports and military bases but it can be done. I always have to double check places a few days in advance

Hi all,

Today I was flying in Pacific Beach, California over the surfline and ocean. Other than taking off or landing I tend to stay over the water and not directly over or too near surfers and waders. I had VLOS of the Mavic, given it was only 1350 feet way and 75 feet in altitude. The airspace is unrestricted and therefore max altitude of 400 feet. I could visually see the Mavic, which sometimes is difficult at greater than 500 feet because of the contrasting backdrop of the sky. There is a pier, roughly 200 feet away, that I was planning to yaw along to practice video shooting.

While lining up to shoot the yaw along the pier I received a notification of a manned aircraft and checked it on the map. I assumed it was from San Diego Airport or Coronado Naval Base and could not visually see the aircraft. Within 20 seconds I started to receive a notification that a Manned Aircraft was Too Close. A few seconds later the small personal plane came around the edge of cliffside. It was hugging the beach line and flying very low.

I took evasive action and dropped the Mavic to 32 feet above the ocean, roughly the height of the pier, and headed for the shoreline. The pier is roughly 2000 feet with about 1300 feet in the water and I was about halfway down it.

The plane was flying very low, well below 400 feet. I would estimate it at less than 250 feet. Based on the flying the Mavic afterwards at 150 feet in the same location it appeared to be the same height. It crossed over the pier and and continued flying at that height. As I stated before there were surfers out in the water about halfway down the pier, the pier had people on it along with hotel structures.

This seems incredible dangerous for a manned personal aircraft to be flying this low so close to a pier with people on it and surfers in the water. There is a distinct difference between a 1.5 lbs drone and small aircraft in regards to safety and consequences of a crash.

I have attached two screenshots of the flight log.

I am seeking advice on whether to report this to FAA. My panic is not relevant in comparison to the hazard it poses to the people in close proximity to the aircraft's flight path. Did I do anything wrong?

View attachment 115064View attachment 115065s

I’ve flown several places in San Diego and fortunately never has a close call. I hear them and lower in case fly near me. I’ve never seen a plane fly that low, however I have seen helicopters fly low over beaches quite often.
 
The flightradar24 App will give you the altitude of passing aircraft.
Some planes don't transmit. Where I fly fixed wing stuff, we get a lot of low fly-bys because it's rural and considered a private airport. I've found Flightradar doesn't work on most of the crop dusters zipping around. But I'm guessing that plane the OP was worried about had it.

If it were me I'd probably let it go. However if it happens more often and I know I'm legal to fly at that location, I'd at least consider asking the FSDO about it. You as a drone operator are required to make way for manned aircraft but sometimes they can be on you before you know it. I for one do not want to bring down or damage the real McCoy with a drone. As far as anybody knows this aircraft might have been having issues... but even full sized aircraft pilots pull some questionable moves.

We had an Alpha Jet come down our runway during a memorial flying event well below 400' the other day. As the pilot(s) flew by they saw this:

DSC05220p.jpg

The jet did a side to side maneuver showing he saw us. We all wished the jet would have come back for another run!
 
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The Military aircraft are so loud and blanket the area with sound refraction to mask the location of the aircraft to make it harder to visually pinpoint. It is easy to hear them coming from a long ways away and take appropriate action. From my observations the Military takes great effort to fly in the middle of the bay and poses no safety concerns for even a daft drone operator. In essence, if you can not hear the Military aircraft coming and take reasonable actions you should not be flying a drone.

This was close and nerve wracking but not what I would call a near collision. As another member stated the aircraft was most certainly being vectored and would have been picked up by ATC of the numerous Military airfields in the area.

My caution in contacting the FAA or ATC stems from the idea it could start a ball rolling that further restricts drone operators. Commercial and Military aircraft are not the issue. It is the amateur and small aircraft that are. No dig on any personal aircraft owners or pilots but the Military have a different caliber of pilots and aircraft.
 
Unless you can identify the make and model of aircraft - and ideally get its registration letters - there's little point in reporting the matter. The fact that you acted correctly in ensuring no conflict is the most important thing. Well done...
 
Unless you can identify the make and model of aircraft - and ideally get its registration letters - there's little point in reporting the matter. The fact that you acted correctly in ensuring no conflict is the most important thing. Well done...
Thanks. It happened really fast. That was all I could do.
 
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Hi all,

Today I was flying in Pacific Beach, California over the surfline and ocean. Other than taking off or landing I tend to stay over the water and not directly over or too near surfers and waders. I had VLOS of the Mavic, given it was only 1350 feet way and 75 feet in altitude. The airspace is unrestricted and therefore max altitude of 400 feet. I could visually see the Mavic, which sometimes is difficult at greater than 500 feet because of the contrasting backdrop of the sky. There is a pier, roughly 200 feet away, that I was planning to yaw along to practice video shooting.

While lining up to shoot the yaw along the pier I received a notification of a manned aircraft and checked it on the map. I assumed it was from San Diego Airport or Coronado Naval Base and could not visually see the aircraft. Within 20 seconds I started to receive a notification that a Manned Aircraft was Too Close. A few seconds later the small personal plane came around the edge of cliffside. It was hugging the beach line and flying very low.

I took evasive action and dropped the Mavic to 32 feet above the ocean, roughly the height of the pier, and headed for the shoreline. The pier is roughly 2000 feet with about 1300 feet in the water and I was about halfway down it.

The plane was flying very low, well below 400 feet. I would estimate it at less than 250 feet. Based on the flying the Mavic afterwards at 150 feet in the same location it appeared to be the same height. It crossed over the pier and and continued flying at that height. As I stated before there were surfers out in the water about halfway down the pier, the pier had people on it along with hotel structures.

This seems incredible dangerous for a manned personal aircraft to be flying this low so close to a pier with people on it and surfers in the water. There is a distinct difference between a 1.5 lbs drone and small aircraft in regards to safety and consequences of a crash.

I have attached two screenshots of the flight log.

I am seeking advice on whether to report this to FAA. My panic is not relevant in comparison to the hazard it poses to the people in close proximity to the aircraft's flight path. Did I do anything wrong?

View attachment 115064View attachment 115065s
I commend you on your quick response to a possible conflict with a manned aircraft. I think you responsed well to a stressful situation.

Yesterday I was flying at around 100 feet and saw an RCAF Search and Rescue Buffalo approaching at low altitude. I immediately brought my drone down and packed it away. I had plenty of warning that the plane was near as I could both hear and see it approaching. The aircraft stayed in the area for around 30 minutes obviously on manoeuvres.
 
Hi all,

Today I was flying in Pacific Beach, California over the surfline and ocean. Other than taking off or landing I tend to stay over the water and not directly over or too near surfers and waders. I had VLOS of the Mavic, given it was only 1350 feet way and 75 feet in altitude. The airspace is unrestricted and therefore max altitude of 400 feet. I could visually see the Mavic, which sometimes is difficult at greater than 500 feet because of the contrasting backdrop of the sky. There is a pier, roughly 200 feet away, that I was planning to yaw along to practice video shooting.

While lining up to shoot the yaw along the pier I received a notification of a manned aircraft and checked it on the map. I assumed it was from San Diego Airport or Coronado Naval Base and could not visually see the aircraft. Within 20 seconds I started to receive a notification that a Manned Aircraft was Too Close. A few seconds later the small personal plane came around the edge of cliffside. It was hugging the beach line and flying very low.

I took evasive action and dropped the Mavic to 32 feet above the ocean, roughly the height of the pier, and headed for the shoreline. The pier is roughly 2000 feet with about 1300 feet in the water and I was about halfway down it.

The plane was flying very low, well below 400 feet. I would estimate it at less than 250 feet. Based on the flying the Mavic afterwards at 150 feet in the same location it appeared to be the same height. It crossed over the pier and and continued flying at that height. As I stated before there were surfers out in the water about halfway down the pier, the pier had people on it along with hotel structures.

This seems incredible dangerous for a manned personal aircraft to be flying this low so close to a pier with people on it and surfers in the water. There is a distinct difference between a 1.5 lbs drone and small aircraft in regards to safety and consequences of a crash.

I have attached two screenshots of the flight log.

I am seeking advice on whether to report this to FAA. My panic is not relevant in comparison to the hazard it poses to the people in close proximity to the aircraft's flight path. Did I do anything wrong?

View attachment 115064View attachment 115065s
You were in compliance and did the right thing to give way to manned aircraft. The manned aircraft pilot was in violation. ✈️

Blu Skys and Happy Trails.
 
You were in compliance and did the right thing to give way to manned aircraft. The manned aircraft pilot was in violation. ✈️

Blu Skys and Happy Trails.
Well...probably. Here is the relevant passage regarding minimum safe altitudes for aircraft. Emphasis is mine

91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general

(c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

So by that definition, the dock and you were closer than 500'...most likely.

However...look at (d)

Helicopters – Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

What I don't know, is if the FAA considers a gyroplane a fixed wing aircraft or a helicopter. My GUESS is it's in the plane column, but i don't know that for sure. Either way, I think the pilot was not being responsible.
That said, if this area is known for lots of flying things, then perhaps flying in a different location would be prudent.

Lastly...

For more information, or to report a low-flying aircraft, please contact your local FSDO. For a list of FSDO’s pertaining to your area, click here.
 
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