Confuddling range test results

[PyroProdigy]

Please let us know when you start flying your drone at the upper altitude of the troposphere! LOL! None of this is relevant at 400 feet AGL!

The picture was just a demonstration of how ducting works. Since most people do not even know what it is. People live in the troposphere BTW. Obviously........

The Impact on Wi-Fi Signals
Extended Range: Ducting can extend a Wi-Fi signal's range far beyond its intended coverage area. While this might seem beneficial, it's typically unpredictable and can cause problems. A signal from a distant Wi-Fi network that would normally be too weak to detect can be "ducted" over many miles, becoming strong enough to cause issues.

Co-Channel Interference: This extended range is the main problem. The distant, powerful signal can cause co-channel interference with local Wi-Fi networks using the same channel. This can lead to a variety of issues:
Reduced performance: The distant signal raises the noise floor, making it difficult for your router and devices to distinguish your network's signal from the interference. This results in slower speeds, higher latency, and frequent disconnections.
Unpredictable performance: Since ducting is a temporary weather phenomenon, the interference can appear and disappear suddenly, making your network's performance highly unpredictable.
Affected Frequencies: Both the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz Wi-Fi bands can be affected. However, the effect is more pronounced at higher frequencies, making 5 GHz connections potentially more susceptible to this type of long-distance interference.

 

[GadgetGuy]

We've beaten this horse to death.
It's dead. Let's move on!
None of it is relevant to the OP flying his drone on earth at less than 400 feet AGL.
We're done here!

 

[PyroProdigy]

Nice pivot to clouds. I said nothing about clouds.

We've beaten this horse to death.
It's dead. Let's move on!
None of it is relevant to the OP flying his drone on earth at less than 400 feet AGL.
We're done here!

Cant fix stupid

 

[PyroProdigy]

Prove that any of this has any direct measurable effect upon the control signal range of a drone pilot, as a direct result of wind, which is your original claim.

How the wind and ducting have a direct measurable effect on the signal range of a drone pilot;
Ducting is related to wind because wind can both help create and destroy the atmospheric conditions necessary for ducting to occur.
Basically the signal "bounces."


Wind can both contribute to and prevent the formation of atmospheric ducts.
Its formation, A gentle, steady wind can help create ducts by advecting (moving horizontally) warm, dry air over a cool, moist surface, such as the ocean. This creates the sharp temperature and humidity gradients necessary for ducting.
Destruction: Conversely, strong or turbulent winds with significant wind shear (a change in wind speed or direction with altitude) can mix the atmospheric layers. This mixing disrupts the stable, stratified conditions required for a duct to form, effectively breaking it up and preventing the phenomenon. Ducting is therefore most likely to occur during periods of calm weather.

Ducting is a meteorological phenomenon that affects the drone's radio control (RC) signal, not its physical flight. It can both increase and decrease the pilot's effective control range, but the effect is often unpredictable and generally problematic.
Extended Range (Over-the-Horizon): In some cases, atmospheric ducting can theoretically extend a drone's RC signal far beyond the normal line of sight. It does this by creating a waveguide in the atmosphere that traps and guides radio signals, allowing them to travel much farther without dissipating. This could allow for longer-distance control, but it is an unreliable and transient phenomenon.
Signal Interference: The more common and problematic effect of ducting is co-channel interference. A strong ducted signal from a distant source (like another drone, a powerful Wi-Fi network, or other wireless devices) can suddenly interfere with the drone's control frequency. This can cause the drone to experience a sudden loss of control, an unstable connection, or trigger its emergency "return-to-home" failsafe, effectively ending the mission and limiting its usable range. This interference is unpredictable and difficult to mitigate, as it's caused by a distant source you can't see or control.

 

[glocke12]

No idea but all I can tell you is I would be super unhappy if I lost a bar out in the middle of nowhere with an Air 3S at 4000 feet but you didn't say how high. Try another completely different location.

I was at 350 feet when flying regardless of the direction...sorry, thought I put that in the OP. It's also not the middle of nowhere, we just have a ton of open land here, a good mix of fields and forests.

I'm also not too concerned about losing connectivity as I have faith in the RTH function if the signal to the RC is lost. I inadvertently tested that when I accidentally unplugged myself from an external monitor, plugged it back in and had the RC re-boot on me. I panicked at first but was relieved to see the drone was on its way back to me already. In any case every area I flew in was accessible by foot for the most part so if the drone was lost recovery would be possible. I would not have flown those distances if that wasn't the case.

Typically I don't fly beyond the area with which I know my connection is strong, but yesterday when I was flying to the North I shocked to see I passed that 3/4 of a mile point without losing a signal so just kept going.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Environmental factors, such as wind, temperature, humidity, pressure, and sea state, significantly influence the propagation of radio waves used by wifi. While wind doesn't directly affect radio waves, it influences the atmosphere's refractive index, or its ability to bend waves. These environmental variations can cause the signal to deviate from its expected path, a phenomenon known as ducting.
Ducting traps radio waves within a specific atmospheric layer, causing them to anomalously long radio wave propagation.
Thermal inversion can also be a factor. This also can cause ducting.



The attached photo is just a demonstration of how ducting works. Its effects are seen WELL BELOW the troposphere.

You admit what I have been saying all along. Wind has no direct effect upon radio waves. Ducting is yet another INDIRECT effect of wind.

"While wind doesn't directly affect radio waves, it influences the atmosphere's refractive index, or its ability to bend waves. These environmental variations can cause the signal to deviate from its expected path, a phenomenon known as ducting."

QED.

 

[GadgetGuy]

How the wind and ducting have a direct measurable effect on the signal range of a drone pilot;
Ducting is related to wind because wind can both help create and destroy the atmospheric conditions necessary for ducting to occur.
Basically the signal "bounces."


Wind can both contribute to and prevent the formation of atmospheric ducts.
Its formation, A gentle, steady wind can help create ducts by advecting (moving horizontally) warm, dry air over a cool, moist surface, such as the ocean. This creates the sharp temperature and humidity gradients necessary for ducting.
Destruction: Conversely, strong or turbulent winds with significant wind shear (a change in wind speed or direction with altitude) can mix the atmospheric layers. This mixing disrupts the stable, stratified conditions required for a duct to form, effectively breaking it up and preventing the phenomenon. Ducting is therefore most likely to occur during periods of calm weather.

Ducting is a meteorological phenomenon that affects the drone's radio control (RC) signal, not its physical flight. It can both increase and decrease the pilot's effective control range, but the effect is often unpredictable and generally problematic.
Extended Range (Over-the-Horizon): In some cases, atmospheric ducting can theoretically extend a drone's RC signal far beyond the normal line of sight. It does this by creating a waveguide in the atmosphere that traps and guides radio signals, allowing them to travel much farther without dissipating. This could allow for longer-distance control, but it is an unreliable and transient phenomenon.
Signal Interference: The more common and problematic effect of ducting is co-channel interference. A strong ducted signal from a distant source (like another drone, a powerful Wi-Fi network, or other wireless devices) can suddenly interfere with the drone's control frequency. This can cause the drone to experience a sudden loss of control, an unstable connection, or trigger its emergency "return-to-home" failsafe, effectively ending the mission and limiting its usable range. This interference is unpredictable and difficult to mitigate, as it's caused by a distant source you can't see or control.

By your own admission in Post #8 above, ducting is an INDIRECT effect of wind, not a direct effect, and not possibly relevant to the OP's question about variance in signal stability, while flying in different directions, from the same point, under the same conditions, at the same elevation, on the same day, in back to back flights. Wind and ducting are completely irrelevant red herrings in this thread.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Cant fix stupid

Had to go there didn't you? SMH!

 

[GadgetGuy]

I was at 350 feet when flying regardless of the direction...sorry, thought I put that in the OP. It's also not the middle of nowhere, we just have a ton of open land here, a good mix of fields and forests.

I'm also not too concerned about losing connectivity as I have faith in the RTH function if the signal to the RC is lost. I inadvertently tested that when I accidentally unplugged myself from an external monitor, plugged it back in and had the RC re-boot on me. I panicked at first but was relieved to see the drone was on its way back to me already. In any case every area I flew in was accessible by foot for the most part so if the drone was lost recovery would be possible. I would not have flown those distances if that wasn't the case.

Typically I don't fly beyond the area with which I know my connection is strong, but yesterday when I was flying to the North I shocked to see I passed that 3/4 of a mile point without losing a signal so just kept going.

Do you have a clear line of sight, out beyond the distance where you are losing signal strength, in each direction, at 350 feet? If not, then the variance in the obstructions in each direction, or lack thereof, likely explains your differences, and is very common. If the distance at which the signal drops varies in the same direction, it is likely due to lower than normal wifi interference along the route, assuming you are flying over any other inhabited structures. If you fly from your rooftop rather than the ground, your range will also increase significantly. Even a ladder will help. For optimal distance, fly from an elevated location like a hilltop over lower ground,

 

[Rockowe]

LOL -
THis conversation is really amusing...

op glocke12​

... hasnt even answered any of these YET .... LOL

... But lets get back to the original discussion...

... the OP is wondering why his range is affected only in One direction.

Whilst GadgetGuy - has some really good points... specifically regarding Droning and impact on the OP's conditions

PyroProdigy is quoting solar flares and clouds for the OP's Query. -
Whilst these are realistic hindrances to RF signals etc ie Solar flares - I doubt that its the case for the OP

... the OP is wondering why his range is affected only in One direction.

Its possible that his local conditions (maybe Wifi, elevation, a little hill, many trees) may be the cause

 

[glocke12]

Do you have a clear line of sight, out beyond the distance where you are losing signal strength, in each direction, at 350 feet? If not, then the variance in the obstructions in each direction, or lack thereof, likely explains your differences, and is very common. If the distance at which the signal drops varies in the same direction, it is likely due to lower than normal wifi interference along the route, assuming you are flying over any other inhabited structures. If you fly from your rooftop rather than the ground, your range will also increase significantly. Even a ladder will help. For optimal distance, fly from an elevated location like a hilltop over lower ground,

I lose sight of this thing when it is 200 feet away unless I have a strobe on it.

I am also not really flying over inhabited structures, it's pretty much all fields and some woodlands. In all other directions except a northerly directions, the wooded areas are rather thick/more dense, I suppose thats the most likely explanation but there are still pockets of wooded areas to the north (direction with the most range), but there are also more open fields out that way.

 

[glocke12]

LOL -
THis conversation is really amusing...

op glocke12​

... hasnt even answered any of these.... LOL

... But lets get back to the original discussion...

... the OP is wondering why his range is affected only in One direction.

Whilst GadgetGuy - has some really good points... specifically regarding Droning and impact on the OP's conditions

PyroProdigy is quoting solar flares and clouds for the OP's Query. -
Whilst these are realistic hindrances to RF signals etc ie Solar flares - I doubt that its the case for the OP

... the OP is wondering why his range is affected only in One direction.

Its possible that his local conditions (maybe Wifi, elevation, a little hill, many trees) may be the cause

what the heck ? I've got at least two replies in this thread since I created it yesterday afternoon and I don't have the luxury of checking in to answer posts unless it's the early am or early evening. Not all of us are able to spend all of our time on forums.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I lose sight of this thing when it is 200 feet away unless I have a strobe on it.

I am also not really flying over inhabited structures, it's pretty much all fields and some woodlands. In all other directions except a northerly directions, the wooded areas are rather thick/more dense, I suppose thats the most likely explanation but there are still pockets of wooded areas to the north (direction with the most range), but there are also more open fields out that way.

That pretty much answers your question. Thinner, less dense wooded areas will always allow better signal penetration.

To be clear, though, "Line of Sight" (LOS) has nothing to do with your eyesight being able to see the drone. That would be "Visual Line of Sight," or VLOS. LOS is the direct straight line between your controller and the drone. For best signal strength and range, that straight line needs to be completely clear of any obstructions like trees and buildings and hills that will block or obstruct signal.

The best way to guarantee a clear line of sight to the drone at all times is to fly the drone higher, above all such obstructions. So, you will be able to fly farther in every direction by either flying higher than 350 feet (fly at 400 feet instead) or by standing on the roof or some other tall structure to raise the line of sight line from one or both ends above the intervening obstructions.

Enjoy your newfound knowledge!

 

[Rockowe]

I lose sight of this thing when it is 200 feet away unless I have a strobe on it.

I am also not really flying over inhabited structures, it's pretty much all fields and some woodlands. In all other directions except a northerly directions, the wooded areas are rather thick/more dense, I suppose thats the most likely explanation but there are still pockets of wooded areas to the north (direction with the most range), but there are also more open fields out that way.

Height is your friend !
if you lose signal SHoot upwards ... it almost always solves a problem like this

 

[GadgetGuy]

what the heck ? I've got at least two replies in this thread since I created it yesterday afternoon and I don't have the luxury of checking in to answer posts unless it's the early am or early evening. Not all of us are able to spend all of our time on forums.

Not your fault. The thread got hijacked into an irrelevant discussion because another poster refused to acknowledge that wind has no direct effect upon radio signals that would affect your control signal strength, despite the fact that wind was never even mentioned by you. Apparently, he wanted to show off how intelligent his husband is and how ignorant I am. LOL!


"My spouse is one of the top people in the country for networking and computer stuff. He knows better than you."

(Quoted from Post #7, earlier in the thread)

 

[GadgetGuy]

Height is your friend !
if you lose signal SHoot upwards ... it almost always solves a problem like this

Which is why my own loss of signal setting is RTH at a height significantly above the maximum height I intend to fly, to make sure every building or hill will be well below that setting, and if I am mountain climbing, a setting of 800 feet is perfectly reasonable. Goal is merely to regain signal by elevating before RTH actually kicks in reversing my flight, so I can regain full control, and sally forth further and away from whatever obstruction was blocking signal, by flying laterally past a building so I can then descend again.

 

[Cafguy]

Congradulations on your spectacular eyesight You should be getting a bit more range out of the equipment sure if you get no interference (and that’s pretty hard these days) but, Why would you test your drone at this range? You do realize you will have a hard time convincing the FAA that you could see the drone at this range, let alone know it’s orientation. But DJI drones have great range out of the box so my vote is interference.

 

[MS Coast]

Ok well guess what?! Google can be wrong as well. I'll trust an expert over Google any day of the year

Google doesn't provide answers and facts itself.

Search engines are a means of identifying multiple publications from multiple reliable experts and institutions. I'll trust the opinion of a group of experts (like the American Medical Association) over the opinion of a single supposed expert (such as a former heroin addict).

 

[a2tomm]

Today I decided to test the limits of my Air 3S by seeing how far I could fly to N,E, S and W.

In short, I was surprised to see that if I flew in a North/Northeasterly direction I was able to fly well over one mile away before my signal strength dropped down to 4 bars. I didn't push it further after that and brought it back home at that point.

For all the other compass points, I've barely been able to go more than 3/4 of a mile from my home point before the signal strength indicator turns orange ( it will literally go from full strength to orange in those directions ).

I find this rather odd for the main reason that there are no significant changes to the topography in any of those directions, at the most there is maybe a 50 change in elevation at the most.

to the west, I can sort of understand losing signal quickly because there are some fairly thick stands of timber in that direction, but thats it, no buildings or other significant structures of any type are present there or elsewhere in this area.

All flights were conducted over fields and woodlands so no people or structures were put in danger because of my actions.

There was no treadmill involved in this test, and the only explanation I have is that there is a magnet in the drone and it is being pulled to the north by magnetism.

I ran the same test from my front yard I live in the Allegheny mountians 3 miles is quite easy for the Air 3s ,even the mini 4 pro does 12000 feet without a sweat DJI has it right ,I totally understand the VLOS thing and don't make a habit of this ,I am kinda in the stciks Nothing but trees ,streams and rr tracks

 

[Rockowe]

Congradulations on your spectacular eyesight You should be getting a bit more range out of the equipment sure if you get no interference (and that’s pretty hard these days) but, Why would you test your drone at this range? You do realize you will have a hard time convincing the FAA that you could see the drone at this range, let alone know it’s orientation. But DJI drones have great range out of the box so my vote is interference.

Sometimes I question the WHOLE 'acceptable' wisdom of Line of Sight by the FAA when droning.

I mean the drone has Crystal clear vision - at the Point its Located... some of the Best cameras in the World - couldnt do Better at range...
Id call that better than VLOS ....
Way Way better than You with Binoculars ... LOL

In fact - based on this - even Internet 5g/4g has more clout than the Human trying to save the drone - by straining to see in the distance

But, Ok- this is a debate for another day... (smiling)

But even a Die Hard "FPV ADDICT!" would concur ...