Could someone explain this ProRes on the Mavic 3

[BSauce955]

Hi, I've already searched online but none of the explanations have satisfied my curiosity about what this ProRes that comes with the Mavic 3 Cine version is all about. I don't know why, but I'm one of the weird people that always want the "best" of everything which is why I'm wondering what the deal is with this ProRes and whether it's worth the extra money.

 

[Kirill]

If you don't know what it is - you don't need it.
It's uncompressed video format that takes a lot of storage and provides some picture improvement if your target display is movie theater screen

 

[BSauce955]

If you don't know what it is - you don't need it.

Valid point, but still not a good reason for not knowing what it is. And the people in the past who didn't know what electricity was didn't necessarily not need it. They were just ignorant of its potential.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Hi, I've already searched online but none of the explanations have satisfied my curiosity . . . .

So if you have searched using the term 'what is Apple Pro Res' and NONE of the hits coming back satisfy you, then likely nothing anyone here can say will either.

Simply put, it is a proprietary video/film codec created by Apple for professional film makers. It requires a license which is a chunk of the cost of the Cinema version. It takes full advantage of the sensor's capability which codecs like H264 or H265 cannot do.

If you are at the point where shooting video with something like a Mavic 2 Pro with 4K 8 Bit H264 compression is no longer cutting it for you then yes - you will need to shoot with Pro Res.

 

[BSauce955]

So if you have searched using the term 'what is Apple Pro Res' and NONE of the hits coming back satisfy you, then likely nothing anyone here can say will either.

Simply put, it is a proprietary video/film codec created by Apple for professional film makers. It requires a license which is a chunk of the cost of the Cinema version. It takes full advantage of the sensor's capability which codecs like H264 or H265 cannot do.

If you are at the point where shooting video with something like a Mavic 2 Pro with 4K 8 Bit H264 compression is no longer cutting it for you then yes - you will need to shoot with Pro Res.

I actually searched "what is ProRes on Mavic 3" I didn't realize it was something in and of itself. Most of the articles just said that it had this ProRes 455 of something like that and that it helps in post processing.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Here is a link to the Apple page that gives a more detailed explanation of all the different versions of Pro Res if you want to know more.

 

[brett8883]

Hi, I've already searched online but none of the explanations have satisfied my curiosity about what this ProRes that comes with the Mavic 3 Cine version is all about. I don't know why, but I'm one of the weird people that always want the "best" of everything which is why I'm wondering what the deal is with this ProRes and whether it's worth the extra money.

So a video is sequence of pictures that play back really quickly so our eyes perceive this as motion. The only problem is if you take a 4k photo 24 times per second you end up with mountains and mountains of data, way more than most people want to handle. So the video must be compressed and the method of compression is called the video “codec” literally code/decode shortened.

Codecs like h.264 or h.265 which are the “normal” video codecs will compress the pixels within a single frame and also compress like areas between different frames allowing the video to be much much smaller than it was originally with little visual difference. The issue with this is it throws away data that’s useful when editing even if a computer monitor can’t display all the data at once. In particular compressing the like areas between frames saves a lot of space but also can cause lots of artifacts related to movement in the scene. This kind of compression struggles with fast moving highly detailed scenes.

ProRes is an intermediate codec meaning it retains much more of the original data and while it uses some compression it is what is called intra-frame compressing meaning it doesn’t compress like areas from frame to frame, each frame is independently compressed which means there are no artifacts related to moving objects. It also supports higher bit depth which retains color information better.

Also, not really directly related to the codec itself but the video that gets recorded will be less processed, meaning there will be more noise and less sharpening. Many people new to it are often confused by this. They think higher quality video should look better right of if camera but that’s not the case. The less processed video allows you do do your own noise reduction and sharpening in post. So it’s not better right out of camera in fact it will likely look worse but it has higher potential to look better if you have the knowledge and skill to process that video. It requires a lot of work.

It’s similar to shooting photos in raw vs jpeg although not that extreme. Somewhere in between. When you record in ProRes expect to use up gobs of storage. That 1 TB ssd might only be enough to record 20-30 mins of ProRes video. Even less if you use a high frame rate. So unless you’re prepared to got through that much storage on your disk and put in the effort required to edit it you wouldn’t want to use it.

 

[BSauce955]

So a video is sequence of pictures that play back really quickly so our eyes perceive this as motion. The only problem is if you take a 4k photo 24 times per second you end up with mountains and mountains of data, way more than most people want to handle. So the video must be compressed and the method of compression is called the video “codec” literally code/decode shortened.

Codecs like h.264 or h.265 which are the “normal” video codecs will compress the pixels within a single frame and also compress like areas between different frames allowing the video to be much much smaller than it was originally with little visual difference. The issue with this is it throws away data that’s useful when editing even if a computer monitor can’t display all the data at once. In particular compressing the like areas between frames saves a lot of space but also can cause lots of artifacts related to movement in the scene. This kind of compression struggles with fast moving highly detailed scenes.

ProRes is an intermediate codec meaning it retains much more of the original data and while it uses some compression it is what is called intra-frame compressing meaning it doesn’t compress like areas from frame to frame, each frame is independently compressed which means there are no artifacts related to moving objects. It also supports higher bit depth which retains color information better.

Also, not really directly related to the codec itself but the video that gets recorded will be less processed, meaning there will be more noise and less sharpening. Many people new to it are often confused by this. They think higher quality video should look better right of if camera but that’s not the case. The less processed video allows you do do your own noise reduction and sharpening in post. So it’s not better right out of camera in fact it will likely look worse but it has higher potential to look better if you have the knowledge and skill to process that video. It requires a lot of work.

It’s similar to shooting photos in raw vs jpeg although not that extreme. Somewhere in between. When you record in ProRes expect to use up gobs of storage. That 1 TB ssd might only be enough to record 20-30 mins of ProRes video. Even less if you use a high frame rate. So unless you’re prepared to got through that much storage on your disk and put in the effort required to edit it you wouldn’t want to use it.

Thank you for the detailed explanation! This is exactly what I've been wanting! However, I'm confused. So 20-30 minutes takes up 1TB of storage. So what type of computer would you need?! That's crazy! Also, I'm assuming there's a way to record normally on the Cine version?

 

[RadioFlyerMan]

Thank you for the detailed explanation! This is exactly what I've been wanting! However, I'm confused. So 20-30 minutes takes up 1TB of storage. So what type of computer would you need?! That's crazy! Also, I'm assuming there's a way to record normally on the Cine version?

For future reference, if you want to learn about technical details, use Wikipedia. For example...

Apple ProRes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I use ProRes as an intermediate proxy during post production in Final Cut Pro X. The purpose is not to make it look good, but to speed up playback and editing. Then before final rendering, I switch to the original media to generate the final video.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

That 1 TB ssd might only be enough to record 20-30 mins of ProRes video. Even less if you use a high frame rate.

NOW I know why that's onboard, thanks !

 

[brett8883]

So what type of computer would you need?! That's crazy! Also, I'm assuming there's a way to record normally on the Cine version?

The noise reduction and sharpening requires a powerful machine to play back in real time and you need fast storage to be able to read the data fast enough but ProRes itself isn’t particularly hard on the machine. In some ways, because it is less compressed the computer doesn’t have to work as hard to decompress it during playback. Though newer computers are pretty good at handling h.264 and h.265 so I’m not sure this is really true anymore.

The M3 cine can record normal video too.

 

[RayOZ]

So, unless you are a professional movie maker, you probably don’t need the Mavic 3 Cine. Imagine spending a lot of time post processing to make family movies to show friends and family during Christmas, and they couldn’t even tell the difference. Lots of wasted money and time, I’d say.
I don’t think content makers for social media even need it. People watch it on their mobile phones, which is relatively a small screen and they have a short attention span to pay attention to minor details for a long duration.

 

[Dave Maine]

Most of the issues have been covered already, but to clarify.

ProRes is a CODEC, just like H.264 and H265. It takes raw sensor data and formats it into a more compressed format that can be stored as a file and played back.

The files it makes contain every full frame image in a compressed format. All the computer needs to do is decompress each frame and put it up on the display sequentially, 30 or 60 in one second.

The H series codecs, to save file space, record full image frames every 5-10 times a second. In between, they only record partial frames containing only information of what has changed since the last full frame. This yields much smaller files. To play these back, the computer needs to locate the beginning full frame, the ending full frame, reconstruct the intermediate full frames from the difference information, and then present the full and reconstructed full frames at the programmed display rate.

This is a far more computer intense operation, and requires much more computing horsepower. The H.265 codec is so complex to play back that the best solutions require dedicated graphics hardware to unscramble and present the image.

Editing is also much more complex, as edits are not usually on full frame boundaries, but someplace in the difference frame information. This requires the same decoding to happen between the 2 full frames, only 1 of which is in the range of images desired for the edited cut. For 60 FPS playback all of this has to happen in 1/60 of a second or less for playback to be smooth. Much less if you are scrubbing at high speed.

ProRes gets rid of all these reconstruction issues, and makes for far easier and fluid editing. It is an editing, or intermediate codec. For final output to YouTube or other outputs, it can be re-encoded back to a more compressed output for streaming. Both YT and VIMEO re-encode anything sent to them To their own proprietary format before streaming.

ProRes does not materially affect image quality significantly, it simply makes editing easier, particularly on lower powered computers.

 

[maven4336]

So a video is sequence of pictures that play back really quickly so our eyes perceive this as motion. The only problem is if you take a 4k photo 24 times per second you end up with mountains and mountains of data, way more than most people want to handle. So the video must be compressed and the method of compression is called the video “codec” literally code/decode shortened.

Codecs like h.264 or h.265 which are the “normal” video codecs will compress the pixels within a single frame and also compress like areas between different frames allowing the video to be much much smaller than it was originally with little visual difference. The issue with this is it throws away data that’s useful when editing even if a computer monitor can’t display all the data at once. In particular compressing the like areas between frames saves a lot of space but also can cause lots of artifacts related to movement in the scene. This kind of compression struggles with fast moving highly detailed scenes.

ProRes is an intermediate codec meaning it retains much more of the original data and while it uses some compression it is what is called intra-frame compressing meaning it doesn’t compress like areas from frame to frame, each frame is independently compressed which means there are no artifacts related to moving objects. It also supports higher bit depth which retains color information better.

Also, not really directly related to the codec itself but the video that gets recorded will be less processed, meaning there will be more noise and less sharpening. Many people new to it are often confused by this. They think higher quality video should look better right of if camera but that’s not the case. The less processed video allows you do do your own noise reduction and sharpening in post. So it’s not better right out of camera in fact it will likely look worse but it has higher potential to look better if you have the knowledge and skill to process that video. It requires a lot of work.

It’s similar to shooting photos in raw vs jpeg although not that extreme. Somewhere in between. When you record in ProRes expect to use up gobs of storage. That 1 TB ssd might only be enough to record 20-30 mins of ProRes video. Even less if you use a high frame rate. So unless you’re prepared to got through that much storage on your disk and put in the effort required to edit it you wouldn’t want to use it.

Good god you’re smart i’m glad that you explain this because I didn’t know anything I’m just an electrician and I love blind my Mavic two pro in my phantom for pro just as a hobby and tinkering around a little with da Vinci but I know I don’t know what I’m doing but I can make it look better even though it looks good enough for the regular eye now that you’ve explained proRes I don’t feel so bad now about not getting the cinema version but I am curious about the sensor on the drone do you still get to use all of the sensors capability not using prores , really doesn’t matter I’m just gonna get the basic Mavic three even though I have three killer drones including the Mavic one pro which still looks really good especially when you’re looking into the sun , thanks for your deep knowledge it’s very intriguing I’m sure most people do not know half of what you know and they all pink like me like the guy that posted this that wants the best but now I have a total different thought about the cinema version, I just hope that the sensor it’s not hindered lock the Mavic two when you go from photo to video and you see the difference in the sharpness as in the Mavic one there’s no difference and no hesitation I’m sure everybody notices when you switch between the two I never hear people talking about it but I’m saving up because a powerful little drone that I have to have

 

[maven4336]

Good god you’re smart i’m glad that you explain this because I didn’t know anything I’m just an electrician and I love blind my Mavic two pro in my phantom for pro just as a hobby and tinkering around a little with da Vinci but I know I don’t know what I’m doing but I can make it look better even though it looks good enough for the regular eye now that you’ve explained proRes I don’t feel so bad now about not getting the cinema version but I am curious about the sensor on the drone do you still get to use all of the sensors capability not using prores , really doesn’t matter I’m just gonna get the basic Mavic three even though I have three killer drones including the Mavic one pro which still looks really good especially when you’re looking into the sun , thanks for your deep knowledge it’s very intriguing I’m sure most people do not know half of what you know and they all pink like me like the guy that posted this that wants the best but now I have a total different thought about the cinema version, I just hope that the sensor it’s not hindered lock the Mavic two when you go from photo to video and you see the difference in the sharpness as in the Mavic one there’s no difference and no hesitation I’m sure everybody notices when you switch between the two I never hear people talking about it but I’m saving up because a powerful little drone that I have to have

Sorry guys I have to stop talking into the text and start just spending the time hand texting

 

[SethB]

Sorry guys I have to stop talking into the text and start just spending the time hand texting

Oh! I’ve seen so many emails and posts with zero sentence/paragraph formatting - now I understand why.

 

[brett8883]

I am curious about the sensor on the drone do you still get to use all of the sensors capability not using prores

From what I heard in reviews the M3 does use the full sensor to record 5k and 4k. Possibly not at higher frame rates but in your typical 24 or 25 fps it should be oversampling the full sensor in h.264/265. I can’t independently verify that though. If you record in less than 4k it may not use the full sensor so keep that in mind.

 

[Darylk]

Thank you for the detailed explanation! This is exactly what I've been wanting! However, I'm confused. So 20-30 minutes takes up 1TB of storage. So what type of computer would you need?! That's crazy! Also, I'm assuming there's a way to record normally on the Cine version?

I've been using mavic 3 to record prores at 5.1k. I see around 20 mins = 25GB storage.
It wont render on a MS Surface Pro 2 into a mp4, I'm waiting for delivery of this to do the work 16-inch MacBook Pro — Space Grey
Here s a 4k video from Mavic 3,

Heer;s a 4k from a Mavic 2 pro , siginifant differnce,

MV 3 Cine is like flying a porshe, MV2 pro, loved it, but its a level down, like Mercedes

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I've been using mavic 3 to record prores at 5.1k. I see around 20 mins = 25GB storage.
It wont render on a MS Surface Pro 2 into a mp4, I'm waiting for delivery of this to do the work 16-inch MacBook Pro — Space Grey
Here s a 4k video from Mavic 3,

Heer;s a 4k from a Mavic 2 pro , siginifant differnce,

MV 3 Cine is like flying a porshe, MV2 pro, loved it, but its a level down, like Mercedes

Nice mate, welcome to the forum.
Also good to post in the intro thread with a bit of a hello.

 

[tonybot3]

If you don't know what it is - you don't need it.
It's uncompressed video format that takes a lot of storage and provides some picture improvement if your target display is movie theater screen

ProRes is not uncompressed. Its not "lossless", as they say, however its a lot less compressed than say, H264. Its an industry standard to archive high-source material, long-term, and also is highly suitable to edit with, in post production. In a strange way, its more easily manipulatable than H264, when you import it to computer. It will run much more smoothly in your timeline, despite being so much bigger than H264.

Many people, prior to editing, will batch convert all their H264 videos to ProRes. They are increasing filesize without increasing quality, however the ProRes will still flow better in Final Cut or Premiere or Davinci than the original H264's.