Distance

[sain1248]

Hi Guys,

I'm very new to drones, I only flew one a couple of weeks ago.
I'm now the owner of a DJI Mini 4 pro.

My question is:

I keep hearing about line of sight, so can I for instance, fly the drone in between and behind things, such as trees or buildings?
Does it have to be in clear sight of the remote control?

 

[rjwmorrell]

The newer drones are pretty good, and going around objects shouldn't present too much of a problem in most cases.

However, a couple of things:

1. Any objects between you and the drone could interfere with the radio link, resulting in diminished or unstable communication with the drone.

2. If your controller can't see the drone, that means you probably can't either. Most places require recreational drones to be flown within visual line of sight (VLOS) unless you have some type of authorization in law or from the aviation authority, etc.

Happy flying!

 

[Droning on and on...]

The pertinent FAA regulation is below. This is generally interpreted to allow momentary loss of sight when flying behind a narrow obstacle (a tree, orbiting a lighthouse, for example). However, strictly speaking you are required to have direct visual contact at all times, and not just visible, but can see it well enough to determine attitude.

----‐-------------------

14 CFR § 107.31 - Visual line of sight aircraft operation.

§ 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

(1) Know the unmanned aircraft's location;

(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft's attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;

(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and

(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Since the OP is in the UK only UK regs apply.

Strictly speaking VLOS translates to, you must be able to see the drone at all times WITHOUT the aid of any optical devices other than normal usage spectacles and strictly speaking you are meant to be watching the drone at all times.
The reason being, so that you can see what is in the air around the drone and whether or not the drone is a threat to anything and take appropriate avoiding action.
Drones are at the bottom of the ladder as far as avoidance rules are concerned.

If you can not see the drone, be that because of distance or an interveneing obstacle, then you are not flying VLOS.

 

[okw]

The pertinent FAA regulation is below. This is generally interpreted to allow momentary loss of sight when flying behind a narrow obstacle (a tree, orbiting a lighthouse, for example). However, strictly speaking you are required to have direct visual contact at all times, and not just visible, but can see it well enough to determine attitude.

----‐-------------------

14 CFR § 107.31 - Visual line of sight aircraft operation.

§ 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

(1) Know the unmanned aircraft's location;

(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft's attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;

(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and

(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer.

Not sure that's going to be very relevant to someone in the UK.

 

[Felix le Chat]

Hi Guys,

I'm very new to drones, I only flew one a couple of weeks ago.
I'm now the owner of a DJI Mini 4 pro.

My question is:

I keep hearing about line of sight, so can I for instance, fly the drone in between and behind things, such as trees or buildings?
Does it have to be in clear sight of the remote control?

UK regulation defines 'Line Of Sight' as having the drone in a position where the operator can physically see it at all times. This and the altitude rule aren't bureaucratic turd-skinning to make drone users lives difficult, they are basic common sense.

If the drone is clearly in view before you try dropping it in a straight vertical line behind a building, the instant you can't see it: it is BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line Of Sight). It will then be a countdown to you losing at least 90% of the control link, so now it's a danger to people or property as well.

 

[old man mavic]

@sain1248 line of sight with regards to your question ,relates to the signal between the RC and drone and back ,this will be compromised ,by objects between those two points, the transmission signals are also absorbed by the water in trees and other fauna ,and also degrade the closer to the ground the drone is flying

 

[sain1248]

The newer drones are pretty good, and going around objects shouldn't present too much of a problem in most cases.

However, a couple of things:

1. Any objects between you and the drone could interfere with the radio link, resulting in diminished or unstable communication with the drone.

2. If your controller can't see the drone, that means you probably can't either. Most places require recreational drones to be flown within visual line of sight (VLOS) unless you have some type of authorization in law or from the aviation authority, etc.

Happy flying!

Fan

 

[GFields]

I keep hearing about line of sight, so can I for instance, fly the drone in between and behind things, such as trees or buildings?
Does it have to be in clear sight of the remote control?

Greetings from Birmingham Alabama USA, welcome to the forum! We look forward to hearing from you!

There are two answers to your two-part question. VLOS (visual line of sight) applies to the ability for the PIC to be able to see and know where the drone is at all times.

The second part (remote control) is the signal strength between the drone and the remote. Certainly, a clear view between the controller and the drone will have a higher signal than when the drone is obscured by an object such as trees or buildings. There are also other factors that come into play that often cause signal interference.

 

[sain1248]

Fantastic,

Thanks so much for the replies, it's exactly what I needed to know.

Still new to it so I want to make sure I'm flying within the rules.

Thank you

 

[Droning on and on...]

Thanks guys for catching my geographic error

I'm curious: In the UK, does VLOS mean simply that you can see it unaided, or are there additional stipulations like in the US where being able to determine attitude is also part of the definition of VLOS?

A drone can be seen much farther away than it is possible to discern its heading, for example. Especially if it's flying directly toward or away from you.

 

[old man mavic]

@Droning on and on... the UK VLOS, also means that you have to be able to discern its heading ,and also its relationship to obstacles, and other air users, that may be flying in the same airspace

 

[mavic3usa]

Also keep in mind, since the Mini 4 Pro works with DJI Goggles 3, you cannot legally fly in this configuration without a spotter. When wearing the goggles, you do not technically have VLOS. At least in the US....is this true in the UK as well?

 

[Meta4]

My question is:

I keep hearing about line of sight, so can I for instance, fly the drone in between and behind things, such as trees or buildings?
Does it have to be in clear sight of the remote control?

Yes ... you need a clear unobstructed line of sight to be able to maintain the control signal.
Your control signal might be able to penetrate the canopy of a tree or two or a small wooden shed, but it won't get through a mass of trees or large buildings, mountains etc.

 

[Droning on and on...]

@Droning on and on... the UK VLOS, also means that you have to be able to discern its heading ,and also its relationship to obstacles, and other air users, that may be flying in the same airspace

So, differences in perhaps verbiage, the requirement are qualitatively about the same.

Which means VLOS is considerably short of maximum visible distance. It has been my consistent observation that people either do not know this, or pretty much ignore it when it comes to the VLOS rule.

The easiest way to understand what statutory "line of sight" means under these constraints is to fly your drone without looking at the camera view, at all. See how far away you can see it and still completely control it, without any errors.

It's a helluva lot closer than maximum sight distance. For me it's about a football field, 300ft.

And even then, when I can accurately control it without, for example, confusing whether it's pointed toward or away from me, I still can fly it better using the camera view as an aid. Much better.

 

[Rui S]

Just for everyone out of Europe to know, VLOS has the exact same meaning as it has in the UK.

So, we are all on the same boat.

But I'm sure no one here is ever flying out of VLOS

 

[Droning on and on...]

I suspect most flights violate the full regulatory definition of VLOS in at least the US and UK.

After that initial new-toy-flying when you first get it, the ability to see remotely, take pictures and video, etc. quickly make flying a camera drone VLOS recreationally pretty boring.

 

[AeroJ]

These are camera drones. I imagine that almost no1 who buys them these days is doing it for the pleasure of manual flight - we are all far more interested in what is being recorded and how it's being framed, not to mention hugely grateful for all the helpful in-flight information that screen displays. Which is partly why it's such a pain to have to try and obey that wretched VLOS rule, which was conceived at a time where a) most people flew for the sake of it, and WERE always watching their craft anyway, b) technology and signal coms, automated flight paths and OA (the later 2 of which which weren't even a thing back then!) were nothing like as good and reliable as they can be now, and c) there was nothing helpful to be gained about flight status by looking away, whereas now (apart from the literal view of the sky for immediate collision avoidance purposes) ALL our useful flight information comes from looking away from the craft and down at that screen !

I say it in every thread where it is relevant, so apologies for sounding like a stuck record, but that particular rule badly needs revising for modern circumstances. In the UK particularly, I believe we have the focus the wrong way round. Once the position and vector of the craft have been set, I think our main focus should be the screen, with regular looks up to check the position and surrounding airspace. I have to actively try and override my overwhelming instinct to fly like that in order to comply, and that's never not annoying.