Do I really need ND filters ?

Pegasusboysa42 · Jul 18, 2019

Buy these if you shoot during day. Awesome deal. PolarPro Cinema Series 4-Filter Limited Collection Pack for DJI Mavic Air

Isaac94 · Jul 18, 2019

macfawlty said:
This synopsis is right on the money. The short answer is ABSOLUTELY YES, YOU NEED ND FILTERS if you're shooting video. The DSLRs I use professionally, I'm typically shooting at 24fps with a shutter of 1/50 (except higher frame rates for slow-motion). I use ND filters. Professional videocameras have a set of ND filters built-in.

When you shoot video at higher shutter speeds (rather than 1/50 or 1/60 for 24fps or 30fps respectively), you get jittery/skippy looking footage, like 'Saving Private Ryan' and other recent movies with high action scenes, intentionally filmed at higher shutter speeds to look jittery. This is most noticeable when you fly closer to objects. Instead of a 'natural' looking film-style motion blur, you get a jittery freeze frame look like a moving timelapse. It's a BAD LOOK. If you're flying high and far from your scene/subjects, it won't be as noticeable and you think it's fine, but it's really not fine. It's unquestionably bad to shoot above 1/50, 1/60, 1/120 respective to double frame rate.

I have been forced to shoot at higher shutter speeds if I didn't have the right filter handy or the light changes dramatically (like flying away from the sun, then back toward the sun). Flying out and back I'll film both even if I'm not going to use a section of footage. If no other reason, in case the bird crashes, I have a visual reference of where it occurred.

On the Mavic 2 Pro, I have options for aperture, which is helpful, but I understand that using apertures 8 or below yields a better quality image. Additionally, depending on the scene, I may want a wider aperture (shorter focal depth) or smaller (longer depth). On a sunny day, I use my ND64 or ND32, mostly the 64. The lesser ones aren't as useful except in the shade or very cloudy.

As a general rule, make sure you're getting the absolute best quality footage of your scene. It's much more difficult to correct for problems in post-production. And jittery footage can't be fixed.

Hi, thank you so much for your very detailed and helpful information, it really does help me to understand better. However, I have a question, which I made another thread regarding that, I was almost going to decide on shooting in 24fps, but then I was told and I saw a few videos, that it causes a little bit of stuttering, or jittery footage like you said. Whereas on 30fps those same footage looks smooth as butter. First off, I bought myself Polarpro's 4, 8, 16 Cinema Series Shutter Collection for Mavic Air, so in which cases do I use these 3, although it's mentioned on the label but still a bit confused. Also, based on what you said, do you mean that using the right ND filter, and shooting at 24fps 1/50, then there won't be any jittery / stuttering issue while filming video ?

Pegasusboysa42 · Jul 18, 2019

Isaac94 said:
Hi, thank you so much for your very detailed and helpful information, it really does help me to understand better. However, I have a question, which I made another thread regarding that, I was almost going to decide on shooting in 24fps, but then I was told and I saw a few videos, that it causes a little bit of stuttering, or jittery footage like you said. Whereas on 30fps those same footage looks smooth as butter. First off, I bought myself Polarpro's 4, 8, 16 Cinema Series Shutter Collection for Mavic Air, so in which cases do I use these 3, although it's mentioned on the label but still a bit confused. Also, based on what you said, do you mean that using the right ND filter, and shooting at 24fps 1/50, then there won't be any jittery / stuttering issue while filming video ?

If you shot at that I don’t think there would be any jitter without filters. Problem would be it would be wayyyy overexposed if it was daytime. Sometimes I use an nd64 and there are spots of overexposure.

Joe Boudreault · Jul 20, 2019

Isaac94 said:
Hello, will be getting my very own Mavic Air in a few days time, I've watched many videos, and some of them suggest that using ND Filter will greatly affect the video / image quality and make it stunningly beautiful. I'm from Malaysia, and I went ahead to check out the prices for ND Filters, they are all about roughly 450+ Malaysian Ringgit, about USD 119. So here begs my question, do I really need those filters for a start ? And is it really worth paying such an amount to get them ?

Also to prevent creating more threads, what should I be paying attention to and what should I do when I first get my Mavic Air ? Would appreciate any advice and tips.

No, you don't need any filters. The lens system on the Air are excellent, and you can learn to set the camera for what you want (color, saturation, contrast, etc). Trying to sell you filters for a modern digital camera is a complete eye-wash. Don't waste money on those things. I've done digital photography for over 30 years and don't touch them. It's like buying a new car and wondering if you need new fancy hub caps. You don't. Cinema mode is a good setting to use on your controller. You can also edit the footage and picks later with other software which costs far less that lenses and does a better job. Good luck!

rlphoto69 · Jul 20, 2019

ND filters are not an absolute must, but they sure help you adjust your camera settings to follow the rule of keeping your shutter speed twice the frame rate. ND filters with PL also greatly reduce glare from water, snow and shiny objects. It’s all about how much you want to improve the look of your video and pics. My vote is yes.

Jberton · Jul 20, 2019

Stickybit said:
It's nice to have them when you're using more manual modes. If everything is on automatic, it won't help you at all..
Also, when using ND-filters, you have to prepare before the flight. Using ND32 when you're already flying at night will not help and even will worsen your footage

I disagree. The sun angle when shooting auto can cause problems. I use filters and use manual. You will find out you very seldom get surprised. Practice makes perfect

Sandwich · Jul 20, 2019

Early morning or late in the afternoon, you don’t need them. Any other time, there are several good reasons to use them. All of which have to do with picture/video quality. NDs and polarizing filters are a good investment.

rxgeek · Jul 20, 2019

Why didn't I ask this before I wasted my money?

hiflyer201 · Jul 20, 2019

As someone who had fooled around with photography for as long as I can remember and can never remember being completely thrilled with any of the results..I would say you need filters with a fixed aperture to get the frame rate correct. However...if you are like me and like to shoot stills and video during the same mission I'm not so sure they are worth the trouble. Faster shutter speed generally gives better still shots. I just returned from Baja California and I think I ruined many still shots because I used a filter during the late afternoon. The video looks fine but I just can't correct the color on the stills..It could be my skill level is not up to the task.
It gets expensive to buy filters for every drone

in the fleet

redsharkmx · Jul 20, 2019

Hi there! my two cents here...buy a hood for your drone and use it. I recently crashed my mavic air and it saved my gimbal from taking a direct impact. I have the pgytech one and it works great...

geevee · Jul 20, 2019

Depends on where you live.... many seem to forget how harsh light can be in some places. You do need filters to control the exposure for video as you are limited to one set of values (either 1/50 or 1/60 ss for 24 or 30fps). In Australia it seems to be very bright, especially in the northern states, so I used 32ND as a standard on Mavic Pro. The Mavic 2 has adjustable aperture so we have more options now but I still bought a set of ND/PL filters, it’s only in late afternoon I can fly without them.

An ND filter won’t change the light quality, it’s neutral. So ppl claiming they mess with colours are incorrect, that’s just the quirks of whichever drone you have. A polariser will change how things look.

For taking stills you can use your shutter speed to make your exposure right, but I still think you’d be safer having a filter on for where you live.

zlek131 · Jul 20, 2019

Radovan said:
When the shooter is set to 1 / 50s (if you shoot 25 frames per second) or 1 / 60s (if you shoot at 30 frames per second) then the shot will be most natural. To be able to shoot at 1/50 or 1/60 you will you will need to use ND filters, otherwise, because of the high light, the camera will set the exposure to a much higher value in the automatic mode. If you fix the exposure to 1/50 or 1/60 in the manual mode, then the shot will be too bright. Most cameras do not have a fixed aperture so it is possible to hold the exposure to 1/50 or 1/60 by reducing the aperture, but even in this case, ND filters are used, since the excessively closed blend sometimes does not meet the needs of the recorder. For professionally good recordings, the ND filters are imperativs.

I agree as I do the above all the time. ND filters are great for the above scenario in bright/sunny locations. They also allow you to set the aperture closer to the desired sweetstop (for example f5.6 or so for MP2, some claim to be the sharpest) as they are like sunglasses for the lense, blocking some of the light hence allowing f5.6. In certain conditions without them at 25 frames and 1/50 shutter you would be overexposing your footage at f5.6, which means you have to shoot f6 or f7 or ... and possibly lose some sharpness (if indeed f5.6 is the sweetspot). I use Tiffen ND and really like them, especially the polarized ones.

Pegasusboysa42 · Jul 20, 2019

hiflyer201 said:
As someone who had fooled around with photography for as long as I can remember and can never remember being completely thrilled with any of the results..I would say you need filters with a fixed aperture to get the frame rate correct. However...if you are like me and like to shoot stills and video during the same mission I'm not so sure they are worth the trouble. Faster shutter speed generally gives better still shots. I just returned from Baja California and I think I ruined many still shots because I used a filter during the late afternoon. The video looks fine but I just can't correct the color on the stills..It could be my skill level is not up to the task.
It gets expensive to buy filters for every drone in the fleet

I’m new to digital video. What do you set it to on a bright day to shoot video and get motion blur? All my auto videos had lines till I got filters and started using manual. On the 360 panos you could see separate tiles distinctly as well.

Terry63 · Jul 20, 2019

Isaac94 said:
I see, ok I get it now, i don't NEED them, but if I can have them, it would be a good help. Just another question, once I get my Mavic Air, other than setting it all up for the first flight, what should I do to practice and master my flying techniques ? Any start go on that ?

I have flown drones ( toys, home built no kit and bind and fly FPV micro drones ) since 2016 but I just got my first DJI drone, a Mavic Pro this spring. The Mavic practically flies itself, however I feel that only learning to fly something as super stable as a DJI could have its down side. The best learner drone I've had (not my first drone though) was a micro drone with controller. It had brushed motors 65 mm cross-corner to motor shafts that was about US $30 called a JJRC H36 and there are similar drones made by other companies. You would have to be trying to break this drone. It's an indoor drone but crashing into household objects like walls, ceilings, furniture and lamps ect. will not hurt them. I would say this is a good drone for learning basics like hovering, holding altitude doing banked turns. True you don't need these skills to fly a DJI, but practicing stick movements (for example when the quad copter is facing you all stick movements are reversed) will come in handy. In a situation where a quick reaction is necessary knowing all stick movements are reversed when the quad copter is facing you is of little use if you haven't practiced it until it becomes an automatic response of your hand to eye coordination. I won't say don't fly your DJI, but follow the advice about using beginner mode and return to home as already stated in previous posts for your first flights. Learn on both types of drones at once. Move up to Positioning mode when you become comfortable with Beginner mode. Definitely learn to fly circles, ovals, around and between objects with a small indestructible cheap quadcopter before you try Sport mode any where except way above everything else around.

Donnie Frank · Jul 21, 2019

Isaac94 said:
Hello, will be getting my very own Mavic Air in a few days time, I've watched many videos, and some of them suggest that using ND Filter will greatly affect the video / image quality and make it stunningly beautiful. I'm from Malaysia, and I went ahead to check out the prices for ND Filters, they are all about roughly 450+ Malaysian Ringgit, about USD 119. So here begs my question, do I really need those filters for a start ? And is it really worth paying such an amount to get them ?

Also to prevent creating more threads, what should I be paying attention to and what should I do when I first get my Mavic Air ? Would appreciate any advice and tips.

Depends on your objective. Lots of crazy answers in this thread.

Learn the exposure triangle. Once you understand the ET and how each facet of that triangle effects/controls your shot, only then will you see the benefits of an ND filter on a camera (Like the Mavic Pro) that has an aperture. It mostly boils down to your motion blur and depth-of-field goals while trying to adhere to the 180° shutter rule. Google all those terms, learn them and understand them and you'll be well on your way to understanding why you MIGHT want an ND filter in SOME situations.

D

geevee · Jul 21, 2019

Donnie Frank said:
Depends on your objective. Lots of crazy answers in this thread.

Learn the exposure triangle. Once you understand the ET and how each facet of that triangle effects/controls your shot, only then will you see the benefits of an ND filter on a camera (Like the Mavic Pro) that has an aperture. It mostly boils down to your motion blur and depth-of-field goals while trying to adhere to the 180° shutter rule. Google all those terms, learn them and understand them and you'll be well on your way to understanding why you MIGHT want an ND filter in SOME situations.

given you can't change the aperture on a Mavic Air, it's set to 2.8, the "triangle" is now limited to just SS and ISO. You don't want to move your ISO off 100 (maybe for hobbyists it's ok to move it a bit, if they can't see or don't care about the noise, but you'll only want to go 2 stops) and you have no choice with SS other than 1/50 or 1/60. (for proper video, you can fudge it a bit for hobby stuff), so in reality there is not much wiggle room in the triangle. In bright sun you'll likely be 4+ stops off the right exposure. So the only way to further adjust the exposure is via ND filters. You need them. Maybe flying in some dreary type location you don't, but I'd wager in Malaysia you will.

raphi_d · Jul 21, 2019

Most was already said and it's true, if you want to achieve a cinematic look and follow the 180° rule @24/25fps and therefore 1/50th shutter speed, then you often need ND filters in sunny environment to bring th EV value (displayed as M.M near the histogram) close to 0 - but only if there is motion. Because all that 1/50th shutter speed does is to blur motion to fool the eye into seeing a smooth motion when shooting with low framerates. But if there is not much motion in your shots, you can increase the shutter speed much higher and therefore won't need an ND filter. Also, if there is motion and you want to achive a documentary style look or are recording fast paced action like in sports, you might want to shoot @60fps and a shutter speed of 1/120 (always double with motion) and this might already be enough to bring EV close to 0.

Isaac94 · Jul 27, 2019

raphi_d said:
Most was already said and it's true, if you want to achieve a cinematic look and follow the 180° rule @24/25fps and therefore 1/50th shutter speed, then you often need ND filters in sunny environment to bring th EV value (displayed as M.M near the histogram) close to 0 - but only if there is motion. Because all that 1/50th shutter speed does is to blur motion to fool the eye into seeing a smooth motion when shooting with low framerates. But if there is not much motion in your shots, you can increase the shutter speed much higher and therefore won't need an ND filter. Also, if there is motion and you want to achive a documentary style look or are recording fast paced action like in sports, you might want to shoot @60fps and a shutter speed of 1/120 (always double with motion) and this might already be enough to bring EV close to 0.

Does what you said above regarding the smooth motion applies to 30FPS as well ? I'm always shooting in 30FPS now then later convert it to 24FPS in post edit, due to the jerky movement in 24FPS where I've heard it's a thing for the 24FPS, so I shoot in 30FPS to ensure every single frame rate is smooth, so given that, ND filter and it's logic still applies right ?