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Drones Flying Over State Fair in TN Seized

I don't think many places issue hard tickets any more) discussing ownership of imagery.
Hardly any do anymore so no back of the ticket to read. but there is also the fine print on the signs as you enter. I think its the same for most amusement parks. you agree that any photos are theirs. Disney goes a step further by painting copyrighted images on everything in the park!
 
Something else to consider is that the video was being taken FROM controlled property. So they absolutely have a right to say no drones.
But if the operator was off grounds then it goes to airspace rules.

Also, this shouldn't need to be said but "public property" is not necessarily all-access. And areas open to the public isn't the same as public property.
 
Something else to consider is that the video was being taken FROM controlled property. So they absolutely have a right to say no drones.
But if the operator was off grounds then it goes to airspace rules.
Not sure what is "controlled property" but you probably mean private property and yes, it is true if you are on private property then the property owners can certain trespass you when it comes to taking off and landing drone and even standing on his property to operate a drone; pretty much anything. He cannot prevent you from flying a drone but trespassing is an option. Ask the flyer to land the drone and leave or post signs that say no drones. Is the state fair private property? I doubt it.

Also, this shouldn't need to be said but "public property" is not necessarily all-access. And areas open to the public isn't the same as public property.
I know what you mean but it's more accurate to say private property is open to the public (or not). Walmart is private property but it's open to the pubic. But it's still private property so they can ask you to leave. However, public property is just that, it's public (which means it is open to the public). Public property,, which is open to the public, is governed by time, place, and manner. As long as the public property is not a restricted area (meaning employees only, areas with confidential information, locked doors, areas the public is not allowed to go, etc) then it is "public access" and while you cannot do whatever you want to do, in most states you cannot be trespassed unless you are breaking the law. when the doors open at 8am, you (the public) arrive and you don't have to leave until they close, 5pm for example. You cannot build a fire or repair your car or pitch a tent or ride a horse or carry on a protest (unless it's a traditional public forum like the sidewalk or the steps of city hall) but you can do pretty much anything that is legal, time/place/manner. Flying a drone? Unless there is a law that says no flying a drone from public property then you can do it. My city doesn't have a law that says no flying a drone from public property. So I can fly in the city park, the corner of 5th and main, at the city fairgrounds, in the parking lot of the police station, city hall front law (not in the atrium indoors)....you get the point; public property in the city limits. And they can't post a sign saying no drones because there is no city ordinance to back that up. check your state laws, some state are more free than others.
 
Let's see if I can say it in a different way.

Public property is NOT uncontrolled property.
There are, literally, thousands upon thousands of instances where "public property" is not open to the public. I could just mention the most famous one. Area 51.

Not too far from me is a beach where there's a giant rock. It's called Cannon Beach. Look it up.
ALL Oregon beaches are public property.
However, one cannot fly a drone or even a kite, near Haystack Rock at Cannon Beach. It's not FAA restricted either.
 
Let's see if I can say it in a different way.

Public property is NOT uncontrolled property.
There are, literally, thousands upon thousands of instances where "public property" is not open to the public. I could just mention the most famous one. Area 51.

Not too far from me is a beach where there's a giant rock. It's called Cannon Beach. Look it up.
ALL Oregon beaches are public property.
However, one cannot fly a drone or even a kite, near Haystack Rock at Cannon Beach. It's not FAA restricted either.
Area 51 is restricted just like any other military base. This is the legal term we need to use because if we start calling it controlled or uncontrolled, that has no legal definition for that we can apply to the public. Government employees will claim they control all government property which they do. Restriction usually has a legal definition such as posting an affirmative sign, a good reason to keep out, consistent with the Constitution, little to no flexibility on that restriction (i.e. you cannot restrict it to some members of the public but not to others and I guess you know what that is all about).

As I mentioned, you can restrict public property so there is no public access but that's what it means, no public allowed. It doesn't mean some of the public ok and some of the public not ok. It doesn't mean we decide who gets to stay and who has to leave. When public property is open to the public, it's open to *all* of the public which is why "uncontrolled/controlled" cannot be the standard.

The law in every state governs the restricted part of public property (or federal). This is for land only, none of this applies to the airspace or the FAA. Haystack Rock is a federally protected wildlife area and a state wildlife conservation area so no drones can land there, it is restricted *and* there is likely a federal/state law that says "no drones." If you want to fly nearby, use these guidelines: Drone Regulations — Haystack Rock Awareness Program

Again, just because a beach is public property and open to the public doesn't mean they can't have rules and regulations. For example, they can say everyone enjoy the Oregon beaches but no horses and no 4-wheelers. This would fall under time/place/manner restrictions which is why it's ok. What isn't ok? They can't say no burkas. Is there a state law that says no drones can fly from state beaches? I dunno. Seems like a reasonable restriction as long as they name a few beaches as No's and a few beaches as Yes's for a good reason.

IANAL

Nice place! (not me, not my video)

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Something else to consider is that the video was being taken FROM controlled property. So they absolutely have a right to say no drones.
But if the operator was off grounds then it goes to airspace rules.

Also, this shouldn't need to be said but "public property" is not necessarily all-access. And areas open to the public isn't the same as public property.

I don't know that I can agree with you.

This is the same kind of issue Tennessee has had for years with guns at fairgrounds.

The first question is, is that fairground privately owned, or is it city/county property?

Once private property or government property is established, then the lawful way to establish policy or law controlling behavior can be eked out.

Then, notice has to be given in a reasonable way. (were there signs saying irrespective of FAA thoughts, no drones here?)

Were the operators in a place to see the warning or have been warned not to operate their drones?

Maybe those people flying over watched too many ken heron videos and thought they were immune?

I don't agree with their actions. But I also don't want localities to be the final arbiter of where we can fly, because small towns have a track record for getting ordinances wrong.

So, I defend the operators just like I defend free speech, even with hating some of the things people say and wishing they wouldn't.
 
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Let's see if I can say it in a different way.

Public property is NOT uncontrolled property.
There are, literally, thousands upon thousands of instances where "public property" is not open to the public. I could just mention the most famous one. Area 51.

Not too far from me is a beach where there's a giant rock. It's called Cannon Beach. Look it up.
ALL Oregon beaches are public property.
However, one cannot fly a drone or even a kite, near Haystack Rock at Cannon Beach. It's not FAA restricted either.

It's actually not the FAA that has say over places like Cannon Beach - it's NOAA and the US Fish and Wildlife Service. All of the small islands and sea stacks along the Oregon coast (1853 of them) are considered protected wildlife refuges and the rules are explicit that you cannot fly under 2000' directly above them. The Oregon Islands National Wildlife Refuge rules apply to each island or seastack and NOT the water in between them so you can legally fly around the islands but not over them. This is actually quite lenient compared to the Washington coastline from Neah Bay down to roughly Ocean Shores where ALL flight activity has to respect the 2000' flight floor. That one covers all beaches up to the high tide line.

The 2000' flight floor is not restricted to manned aircraft and does apply to drones. The laws specifying FAA jurisdiction over the National Air Space has an explicit exemption for this type of refuge.
 
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It's actually not the FAA that has say over places like Cannon Beach - it's NOAA and the US Fish and Wildlife Service. All of the small islands and sea stacks along the Oregon coast (1853 of them) are considered protected wildlife refuges and the rules are explicit that you cannot fly under 2000' directly above them. The Oregon Islands National Wildlife Refuge rules apply to each island or seastack and NOT the water in between them so you can legally fly around the islands but not over them. This is actually quite lenient compared to the Washington coastline from Neah Bay down to roughly Ocean Shores where ALL flight activity has to respect the 2000' flight floor. That one covers all beaches up to the high tide line.

The 2000' flight floor is not restricted to manned aircraft and does apply to drones. The laws specifying FAA jurisdiction over the National Air Space has an explicit exemption for this type of refuge.
Looking it up on a map, that restriction doesn't cover Long Beach too?
It wouldn't make sense because it's quite legal to fly kites there.
 
Looking it up on a map, that restriction doesn't cover Long Beach too?
It wouldn't make sense because it's quite legal to fly kites there.
The Olympic Coast National Marine Sanctuary stops just north of Copalis Beach. The following is a snapshot of the FAA Seattle Sectional Chart. The solid blue line with the blue dots inside show the outline of the marine sanctuary. Long Beach is well south of the sanctuary.

1755920561898.png
 
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