Envoy E175 aircraft may have hit a drone climbing out of Chicago

[MA2 317]

INCIDENT: Envoy E175 Collides With Drone In Chicago! - Mentour Pilot

An Envoy E175 hit a drone, as it climbed out of Chicago. The flight crew were able to return the aircraft for a safe landing, back in O’Hare.

mentourpilot.com

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[Saladshooter]

I'm skeptical on this one...... drone was supposedly at 12000 ft.... not impossible but improbable.

 

[db4476]

Most likely a bird strike.

As they say in the Military... "Not a confirmed kill"

Cheers!

 

[MS Coast]

I'm skeptical on this one...... drone was supposedly at 12000 ft.... not impossible but improbable.

12000'?

They reported striking it while climbing through 2500' MSL. They climbed to 6000' to burn off fuel weight before returning to the airport. KORD is at 680', so the drone was about 1820' AGL.

 

[Saladshooter]

12000'?

They reported striking it while climbing through 2500' MSL. They climbed to 6000' to burn off fuel weight before returning to the airport. KORD is at 680', so the drone was about 1820' AGL.

That would make more sense.... but from Dronedj "Sunday’s collision of the Embraer 175 passenger plane and a drone is one of the most alarming in a recent flurry of reported impacts and near-misses. Envoy Air’s flight ENY396 returned to O’Hare shortly after its regular 6:20 p.m. evening departure for Detroit, after pilots reported striking something at 12,000 feet. The plane landed safely with no injury to passengers or crew. Audio files of exchanges with air traffic control that night recorded pilots radioing in the collision shortly after it occurred. "

 

[MS Coast]

That would make more sense.... but from Dronedj "Sunday’s collision of the Embraer 175 passenger plane and a drone is one of the most alarming in a recent flurry of reported impacts and near-misses. Envoy Air’s flight ENY396 returned to O’Hare shortly after its regular 6:20 p.m. evening departure for Detroit, after pilots reported striking something at 12,000 feet. The plane landed safely with no injury to passengers or crew. Audio files of exchanges with air traffic control that night recorded pilots radioing in the collision shortly after it occurred. "

In the recording of the conversations between the crew and the controllers, the crew says they "were climbing through about 2500." It's at about 2:20 in the video posted here.

There was a report of a drone from another pilot who had departed just before this flight, very close to the airport and just after takeoff.

 

[DARKSeifer]

3600 meters altitude is pretty unlikely for a quad (with a hacked DJI or a DIY quad you'll burn the entire battery climbing that high, so you can be there for a minute maybe, and in that minute you hit a plane? XD)... but these days everything is caused by drones, even if they don't see the drone, it's a drone, always, no matter what ¬_¬U

Probably a bird, or maybe a ballon like those you use to put DIY weather stations in orbit... or a fixed wing, like a modified parrot disco, but pretty unlikely. Crashing mid air is not as easy as crashing in a bidimensional plane like a congested road.

Drone crashes at low altitude near the runaway?... yep, like the other day with the canadian policemen.
Drone crashes over wildfires? Yep, planes and copters flying low on a congested area, pretty likely to hit a drone recording the fires because they'll share lot of time in the same volume of airspace (50-120m)
Drone crashes at 3600 meters? Let me doubt that.

We even had a policeman a few months ago going after a "rogue drone" that was actually Jupiter... yep, the f* planet. Drones, drones everywhere ¬_¬U

Drones are an extremely marginal hobby, just like RC in general, and it's not going to change... so don't expect dronestorms anytime soon XD

 

[Prop Wash]

Seems a bit to "convenient" for them to say they hit a drone. Climbing past 2500' MSL - how fast are they going @ the time? Isn't the aircraft pitched up at this point? It was ~6:20 p.m. so the sun would be 'lower' in the sky, and behind them given they took off from on Runway 09C. Isn't there a transition time from take-off to flight, so they were doing things to make sure the plane was ready to go on to the destination? Plus still keeping a eye out for other aircraft since they were still close to O'Hare. It doesn't sound like had been handed off to the next ATC taking them out toward their destination. If they said they'd hit "something," that would have been different.

 

[MS Coast]

Seems a bit to "convenient" for them to say they hit a drone. Climbing past 2500' MSL - how fast are they going @ the time? Isn't the aircraft pitched up at this point? It was ~6:20 p.m. so the sun would be 'lower' in the sky, and behind them given they took off from on Runway 09C. Isn't there a transition time from take-off to flight, so they were doing things to make sure the plane was ready to go on to the destination? Plus still keeping a eye out for other aircraft since they were still close to O'Hare. It doesn't sound like had been handed off to the next ATC taking them out toward their destination. If they said they'd hit "something," that would have been different.

"Departure, Envoy 3169, we just hit something. I believe we just hit a drone about 30 seconds ago."

Sounds like you doubt that they hit a drone. What suggests another explanation for the damage to air airplane?

They'd just been advised of a drone in the area. As you point out, the sun was behind them, so visibility would be good ahead of them. And, as you say, they were keeping an eye out for other aircraft, probably specifically for the drone just reported.

 

[MS Coast]

3600 meters altitude is pretty unlikely for a quad (with a hacked DJI or a DIY quad you'll burn the entire battery climbing that high, so you can be there for a minute maybe, and in that minute you hit a plane? XD)... but these days everything is caused by drones, even if they don't see the drone, it's a drone, always, no matter what ¬_¬U

Probably a bird, or maybe a ballon like those you use to put DIY weather stations in orbit... or a fixed wing, like a modified parrot disco, but pretty unlikely. Crashing mid air is not as easy as crashing in a bidimensional plane like a congested road.

Drone crashes at low altitude near the runaway?... yep, like the other day with the canadian policemen.
Drone crashes over wildfires? Yep, planes and copters flying low on a congested area, pretty likely to hit a drone recording the fires because they'll share lot of time in the same volume of airspace (50-120m)
Drone crashes at 3600 meters? Let me doubt that.

We even had a policeman a few months ago going after a "rogue drone" that was actually Jupiter... yep, the f* planet. Drones, drones everywhere ¬_¬U

Drones are an extremely marginal hobby, just like RC in general, and it's not going to change... so don't expect dronestorms anytime soon XD

Is there a reliable source for the 3600 meters altitude? Every article I've seen reports 2500' when the strike occurred. Only the DroneDJ article reports 12,000 feet. The conversation between the controller and aircrew confirms 2500.

 

[Smooth Rhythm]

We often see reports by drone pilots, News media, including Dronedj, and others, exclaiming “Drones are often blamed but hardly ever the culprit” (Dronedj), and “Most of the reports to NTSB of possible drone collisions with other aircraft have proven unsubstantiated,” (Dronedj), just to cite a couple.
In this current article, Dronedj reports:
“Envoy Air’s flight ENY396 returned to O’Hare shortly after its regular 6:20 p.m. evening departure for Detroit, after pilots reported striking something at 12,000 feet,” and continued, “Departure, Envoy 3961, we just hit something,” a crew member is heard saying. “I believe we hit a drone about 30 seconds ago. We’d like to return to O’Hare.”
Dronedj continued paragraph after paragraph but never explained the source of its “12,000” claim, and notwithstanding the inclusion of the actual ATC – pilot communication tape at the end of its article In which the pilot clearly states “we were climbing through about 2500(ft)… we were approximately 4 miles northwest of the airport, when it happened, maybe 2500 feet.” Dronedj never refuted its earlier claim of 12,000 ft.
C’mon man! What kind of reporting is this!

 

[MS Coast]

Another piece of the puzzle.

https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/jet-strikes-mysterious-object-returns-to-ohare

According to this article, the FAA says Flight 3961 hit a mylar balloon. But there's no source listed and there's nothing in the FAA's Preliminary Accident and Incident Reports. I sent an email to the author of the article asking for the source.

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93::??::

 

[GFields]

Awesome, thanks for sharing!

 

[MS Coast]

I wrote to the author of this article mentioned is message #12 about the balloon report. His response - FAA Spokesman Tony Molinaro wrote in an email to me, "The FAA determined the object was a Mylar balloon."

That raises two questions.

Was the other aircrew report of a drone actually the same balloon?

Can a Mylar balloon cause the "minor damage" to the E175 that was reported?

 

[Smooth Rhythm]

I wrote to the author of this article mentioned is message #12 about the balloon report. His response - FAA Spokesman Tony Molinaro wrote in an email to me, "The FAA determined the object was a Mylar balloon."

That raises two questions.

Was the other aircrew report of a drone actually the same balloon?

Can a Mylar balloon cause the "minor damage" to the E175 that was reported?

Thanks for researching further. Seems like this incident gets more convoluted by the hour! ??

 

[Prop Wash]

"Departure, Envoy 3169, we just hit something. I believe we just hit a drone about 30 seconds ago."

Sounds like you doubt that they hit a drone. What suggests another explanation for the damage to air airplane?

They'd just been advised of a drone in the area. As you point out, the sun was behind them, so visibility would be good ahead of them. And, as you say, they were keeping an eye out for other aircraft, probably specifically for the drone just reported.

Sure enough - I missed that! Thanks.

With the information provided in the OP, I didn't hear or read anything about them being advised of a drone being in the area. So, yeah, at the time I wrote my post I had my doubts. To Me, it sounds like drones are the 'easy target' when something happens. Not being an manned aircraft pilot I don't know, but it would seem as fast as they're flying as they are climbing, it would be difficult to see something as small as a drone.

The reports of it being a mylar balloon backs my opinion of the difficulty of spotting smaller objects. As far as damage, I don't see anything specific regarding damage. It just says, "minor damage" reported. And the plane was put back in service 12 hours later.

 

[Hydrostan]

So happy to hear this after seeing all the vile comments about drones on the YouTube site...

 

[DoomMeister]

Found this through a search for Envoy Flight 3961 damage - Envoy Air Flight 3961 Suspected Drone Strike Was Actually A Balloon

Envoy Embraer E175 Involved In Chicago Area Balloon Strike

simpleflying.com

 

[Richiebricker]

INCIDENT: Envoy E175 Collides With Drone In Chicago! - Mentour Pilot

An Envoy E175 hit a drone, as it climbed out of Chicago. The flight crew were able to return the aircraft for a safe landing, back in O’Hare.

mentourpilot.com

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Its always "May have hit a drone". This pilot just wants a night off to get some real sleep

 

[Richiebricker]

12000'?

They reported striking it while climbing through 2500' MSL. They climbed to 6000' to burn off fuel weight before returning to the airport. KORD is at 680', so the drone was about 1820' AGL.

He said "May Have" which means May not have as well