Filming National Parks From Outside

[kona]

Two bits of advice on flying in Nat'l Parks. Tip #1 Scout the area out to find the most discreet / concealed place to fly from out of public sight. Don't fly any higher than you need to to get the "shot" you want. Use a circular path to return to you to confuse anyone who may be tracking your bird. Land quickly and pack up and stash your bird out of sight and walk around a bit and see if anyone shows up to "look" for that drone flyer. Tell them your looking for them too. Don't fly anywhere they do helicopter tours...period. Tip #2 Do not fly in Nat'l Parks. Tip #2 will avoid a lot of stress and possible legal consequences!

I assume this is for those illegally taking off WITHIN a park? Since taking off OUTSIDE the park and flying into it seems to be legal...

 

[zanderlane]

...legal when launching outside the park EXCEPT for the "2000' above wildlife" rule that they can throw at you when flying above a national park...I agree it's probably best and most legal to fly right up to the border but do not cross - I once plotted a good flight path on google earth for glacier NP from the southwest border along the mountain range there - the scenery will still be spectacular and from a different perspective than usual...

 

[BerndM]

Take a look...

List of national parks of the United States - Wikipedia

Be prepared to be hassled. Most likely you'd be flying outside VLOS which means that the NPS could then report you to the FAA for investigation.

I'm not sure how much a park ranger can hassle you IF you are truly outside the park where they probably have no more authority than any other civilian. They would have a hard time turning you in to the FAA if they don't know who you are. Right??

 

[tcope]

I'm not sure how much a park ranger can hassle you IF you are truly outside the park where they probably have no more authority than any other civilian. They would have a hard time turning you in to the FAA if they don't know who you are. Right??

Was the drone always within VLOS? We _all_ airport owners and towers called within 5 miles? Was there _ever_ a safety issue (flying over or around people)? The list goes on and on. I'm not saying it's right but it's very possible that a ranger might frown upon this type of flight if they found out.

 

[Bryan Conover]

Take a look...

List of national parks of the United States - Wikipedia

Be prepared to be hassled. Most likely you'd be flying outside VLOS which means that the NPS could then report you to the FAA for investigation.

Of which nothing will happen. The FAA has been sitting at their desk drafting drone regulations with zero enforcement for years. Case in point, Casey Neistat has been reported on by hundreds of UAS users for the last 2 years. To this day nothing became of his enormous violations as with other blantant youtubers posting videos flying tens of thousands of feet beyond LOS.

 

[MavicPilot]

Thank you for the tip on NP! It does sound like a loophole that will eventually get fixed.

I don't want to be a pain guys, but how are you flying your mavic >100' high and 200' off and still seeing it without a spotter? I am being a little crazy on the distances, but I think you get the point. I think the VLOS is crazy with a quad this small and I wanted honest opinions. I'm assuming folks are merely using the screen to navigate and ignoring the rules? I'm assuming you land and scuttle quickly?

My P1 I never trusted far and my P3A I bought crazy cheap while waiting for my Mavic - and I never went far in either. I played with some 3D capturing and I got extremely uneasy when she went off and literally a few seconds later she was gone. I was only at 128' and the trip was about 3 minutes start to finish - in a rectangle to test.

 

[zanderlane]

...YMMV, but I was taught during part 107 groundschool that the FAA guideline/rule of thumb for VLOS is 1,500' for an sUAS - which to my reckoning is quite generous, as the intention of VLOS is not just to see a dot on the horizon, but to be able to quickly fly with full control and without any tablet to see what the craft sees to avoid sudden danger, like a low flying heli that suddenly comes over a ridgeline or a flock of seagulls - again your mileage may vary...

 

[Strafe1]

Thank you for the tip on NP! It does sound like a loophole that will eventually get fixed.

I don't want to be a pain guys, but how are you flying your mavic >100' high and 200' off and still seeing it without a spotter? I am being a little crazy on the distances, but I think you get the point. I think the VLOS is crazy with a quad this small and I wanted honest opinions. I'm assuming folks are merely using the screen to navigate and ignoring the rules? I'm assuming you land and scuttle quickly?

My P1 I never trusted far and my P3A I bought crazy cheap while waiting for my Mavic - and I never went far in either. I played with some 3D capturing and I got extremely uneasy when she went off and literally a few seconds later she was gone. I was only at 128' and the trip was about 3 minutes start to finish - in a rectangle to test.

Wow. I can easily see my Mav at 400' high and over 1500' out.

 

[MavicPilot]

Wow. I can easily see my Mav at 400' high and over 1500' out.

Thanks. That is why I asked to get an idea if it was me or just that the mavic is so small. I may just have really bad saturation due to all of the computer use, but I ran the calculations and it seems like it was ~600' out and ~247' high and it was hard to see. That seemed like the magic number.. now if seeing a DOT is okay, then I too may have (can't remember off hand) seen it at the ~1400' out range, but there is no way that I would have found it if not for following it and looking at the screen map overlay.

Heck, at 247'h x 25-50' out it's tough, IMHO, to see it if it's cruising along on a designated path and you are not sure where it is.. Again, assuming you lose track for a second.

 

[dlopezjurado]

Source?

I'm not seeing anything from the FAA specifically that says you can't fly a drone there.

I´m not the ideal one to talk about rules in USA...but...don´t forget how many helicopters are all day flying for tourists at the Grand Canyon airspace...

But, yes, I wish we could film it with our Mavics!

 

[frankiez]

My understanding too -- as long as take off and landing is outside the park, and as long as you maintain line of sight, it is legal.

There was a post about this a while back and someone pointed out that the wording has changed to mean that even though you take off and land outside the park, you CANNOT fly into the park as well.

 

[BerndM]

Here are the latest National Park Services rules on the matter
This is the specific area of interest that I believe pertains to us flying our drones in those areas.

9. Does it matter where an unmanned aircraft is used for the required closures to apply?

Yes. The NPS has the authority to regulate or prohibit the use of unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS. As a result, the compendium closures required by the Policy Memorandum only apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS within the boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on non-federally (e.g., private or state) owned lands located within the exterior boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to the flight of unmanned aircraft in the airspace above a park if the device is launched, landed, and operated from or on lands and waters that are not administered by the NPS.

 

[RC5728]

Thanks BerndM.

Do you have a link for that text on their website?

It would be handy to have that if questioned by NPS.

 

[SteelFlyer]

Does it cover the Horseshoe Bend area (outside of the main canyon)?

Just an update. I discovered that Horseshoe Bend is part of the Glen Canyon Recreation Area which is administered by the National Park Service and has the same rules as a National Park. So you are not allowed to launch, land or operate in this area. Sorry for the bad news. I came across it as I was looking to see if I could fly this week near the Colorado River on the other side of Arizona which is part of the Lake Mead Recreation Area. The NPS basically has control of the area around the Colorado River all the way from Canyon Lands National Park down through Glen Canyon, the Grand Canyon and Lake Mead to Laughlin Nevada. So, in short some of the most scenic areas of the United States are off limits to drones.

 

[BerndM]

Thanks BerndM.

Do you have a link for that text on their website?

It would be handy to have that if questioned by NPS.

here it is
I don't know why it doesn't visually show here but just click on the "To"

To:

 

[jasoraso]

Horseshoe bend appears to be one of those locations that would be close enough to non-park service land to allow flying from non-nps property, assuming FAA restrictions can be complied with. The viewpoint for the bend is about .6 miles from the highway, and the park boundary appears to extend only .3 miles from the viewpoint.

However, if there was a big group of people, I don't think I would fly, that would be in violation of the FAA guidelines/rules.

 

[jasoraso]

As a follow-up, I think a discussion needs to be had with NPS about their blanket policy, which is supposed to be temporary while they develop more appropriate rules. I have been in parts of Canyonlands NP where I haven't seen another person (other than my group) for hours as we jeeped on a 4-wheel drive trail. Not permitting drone use in that type of environment is silly and overreaching. Obviously, a place like the South Rim of the Grand Canyon at sunset is completely different. Or it is absurd to prohibit drone use in Lake Powell in the Glenn Canyon NRA, where boats etc are much louder than any drone (and where drone use isn't uncommon).

Perhaps this new advocacy group sponsored by DJI can help push the adoption of reasonable policies tailored to each locale by a local administrator (like Utah's State Park drone policies), rather than a heavy handed blanket policy from the an administrator in a Washington D.C. office.

 

[tcope]

As a follow-up, I think a discussion needs to be had with NPS about their blanket policy, which is supposed to be temporary while they develop more appropriate rules. I have been in parts of Canyonlands NP where I haven't seen another person (other than my group) for hours as we jeeped on a 4-wheel drive trail. Not permitting drone use in that type of environment is silly and overreaching.

Part of the problem is that IAV fliers have made this an ongoing issue. That is, many people continue to fly UAV's in highly populated areas of National Parks and create a safety issue. Even certain people in this form are of the frame of mind that this should be acceptable. As long as there are people who continue to keep this issue in the media and to the attention of the NPS, we most likely will never see a change in their policy.

Think about it from their point of view... they have outlawed operation from within the entire park yet people continue to fly in areas where there ar actual safety issues (again, even people on this forum don't seem to understand this). Why would they then allow partial use when people can't understand the ban to begin with.

I'm 100% behind your thought. However, I just don't see it happening as long as many people simply don't "get it". I've been to the Canyonlands Sky District (the main overlook) twice in the past year and each time someone was flying a drone there. I just returned from Arches and someone was flying at Dedicated Arch. I have to think that this happens on a daily basis.

 

[SteelFlyer]

As a follow-up, I think a discussion needs to be had with NPS about their blanket policy, which is supposed to be temporary while they develop more appropriate rules. I have been in parts of Canyonlands NP where I haven't seen another person (other than my group) for hours as we jeeped on a 4-wheel drive trail. Not permitting drone use in that type of environment is silly and overreaching. Obviously, a place like the South Rim of the Grand Canyon at sunset is completely different. Or it is absurd to prohibit drone use in Lake Powell in the Glenn Canyon NRA, where boats etc are much louder than any drone (and where drone use isn't uncommon).

Perhaps this new advocacy group sponsored by DJI can help push the adoption of reasonable policies tailored to each locale by a local administrator (like Utah's State Park drone policies), rather than a heavy handed blanket policy from the an administrator in a Washington D.C. office.

I couldn't agree more. I absolutely have no problem not flying in places like the South Rim or Yosemite Valley or Yellowstone and in sensitive primitive areas but in the NRAs and other huge, wide open expanses, it is crazy. One size fits all does not work. I hope NPS can come up with a reasonable policy that can work for all.

 

[kokopelli]

Horseshoe Bend. There is a sign between the parking and the view point saying drones are not allowed