First steps to commercial photography, asked to quote a price and I don't know what to say

[Deleted member 94047]

Hello folks!

For the past 10 months I have been a purely recreational flyer. I am now considering doing some paid for jobs and this week I was approached by one of the lake side hotels for a potential paid job.

What they want is three different aerial photos of the exterior of the hotel (one close up and one pano + one night time picture with all the lights glowing and reflecting from the lake - I am thinking this one needs to be a long exposure) and five pictures of the interior of the hotel showcasing its various facilities. They want digital copies of the pictures (edited and ready for print of course and hence there will be significant time dedicated to post processing). And they asked me to submit a proposal quoting a price for the job (with a subtle hint that it better not be an exaggerated price). Problem is, I have never done this kind of job and don't know any one who has. I am also not aware of any business here doing commercial aerial photography so I don't have any reference points to start with. So I am asking, if you were in my shoes, what price would you quote?

Thanks for any feedback

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Congrats !!
How did they get onto you ?
Had they seen your vids on YouTube etc ?

Anyway, this is a very subjective topic, as everyone that is doing any sort of biz will have different levels of desired income, work in varying places with very different economic factors etc.

I would look at it purely from your own personal perspective.
So this is pretty much labour cost, plus I would add a small margin to allow for wear and tear on equipment (drone and other for vehicle / computer etc), and a small charge for vehicle fuel costs for site visits (assuming 2 trips).
If you are happy making say = US$500 a day, and you think 6hrs total would cover the shoots and post processing, then maybe you’d be happy with $375 plus say 10% equipment and $30 fuel ?
That would total $442.50
Add in a USB stick for the files, and round to $450 ?
Of course if you have commercial pilot license costs to amortise too, and other such commercial costs, you might have a target of $1000 a day to make a decent profit.
At the start you might be happy with ‘pocket change’ to do something you love doing, but if you start too cheap, that is where your future potential clients will expect you to stay.
Hope you get the job and it works our well for all concerned.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Thanks @MAvic_South_Oz. Yeah, they had seen some of my work on my twitter page* but it was I who approached them first. I was doing some impromptu and rather unorthodox market assessment the last few weeks and have been approaching a few business and organizations with a few large format photo prints of my work asking if they would have any interest in either buying my existing work or commissioning an aerial photography work of their choosing. So when I went to this particular hotel, the manager recognized some of the sample prints I had with me and said "Oh, you are that guy!" and made me this counter offer. So the twitter page seems to have helped.

At the start you might be happy with ‘pocket change’ to do something you love doing, but if you start too cheap, that is where your future potential clients will expect you to stay.

Thanks for this. This is a great insight!. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind doing this at no profit at the moment but I also want to develop this in to a business in the near future (if possible). Starting cheap may not be the best strategy!

_______
*Which I deactivated a few weeks ago, oddly enough. May be I should resurrect it again.

 

[THE CYBORG]

I would go with an hourly rate for a job like this with multiple images & explain some time would be spent post processing, I would also say I would include a free USB stick (cover the cost with time if you want).
Work out how long you think it will take and give an estimate, if your estimate ends up being to low cut your losses rather than up the price as people don't like bad news, this could lead to more work.
After your first job you should have a guide for pricing in the future.
As any photographer knows take numerous shots & sort out the best, you can always pop a few extra on the USB stick as a goodwill gesture considering you will already have them.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

I would go with an hourly rate for a job like this with multiple images & explain some time would be spent post processing, I would also say I would include a free USB stick (cover the cost with time if you want).
Work out how long you think it will take and give an estimate, if your estimate ends up being to low cut your losses rather than up the price as people don't like bad news, this could lead to more work.

Thanks @THE CYBORG. This makes a lot of sense and will be very helpful. I will break down the job to how many hours it will take from scouting to shooting to post-processing and see what kind of hourly rates I can/should consider charging. If you have experience doing this, I would be immensely grateful if you could shade some light on the following

1- Should I charge for the time spent location scouting?

2 - If yest to the above, should I charge the same hourly rate for location scouting as I do for shooting and post processing? I can't say location scouting isn't as demanding as shooting or post processing and was wondering what the standard practice was - the same hourly rate across the different tasks or different hourly rates based on the (perceived) difficulty of the specific task involved?

Thanks again

 

[THE CYBORG]

I was a joiner /carpenter and didn't charge for the initial trip to give an estimate, a free estimate always goes down well, so I wouldn't charge for scouting thing out.

Use the same hourly rate for all aspects of the job, give an estimate of the time you will add for post processing, don't go over the top but if it takes a lot longer than anticipated cut your losses, people don't like paying for the part they cant see.

If I misjudged a job I cut my losses in time taken but it stood me in good stead for more work, after all time is just time.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Greatly appreciated @THE CYBORG; you have been immensely helpful!

 

[THE CYBORG]

Glad to be of help.
Do they know this is your first job ?

Act with confidence and don't be afraid to give your opinion of what would make a good image, it always helps to look as if you know exactly what you are doing even if you don’t.

Take into consideration that the hotel is a business and will probably charge a small fortune for a room but won’t want to pay the same for others work but don't let that put you off.

At first it can be hard to give an estimate ( to low can look amateur ) if you look professional it go's a long way in giving the impression that you are experienced in what you do.

A reasonable rate should stand you in good stead and you can always put the first job down to experience.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Do they know this is your first job ?

Yeah, I might have let that slip while chatting with the manager But he seemed to be very impressed with my work and I hope that will count to something. Nevertheless, I'll take your advice on projecting confidence to heart.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Update: I submitted a proposal amounting to just below $400 and they accepted it (now I am thinking I should have gone for 500 LOL). Not an awesome deal; but also not so bad considering this is my first paid photography job. @MAvic_South_Oz and @THE CYBORG - I would really like to thank you both for your insights; you were both immensely helpful. This hobby photographer is now a commercial photographer (phew!). Next step is going to be establishing a proper small business

 

[Olav van Gerven]

If you calculate the price for an hour work, do not forget, that you have to pay tax and insurances over the money you make. Also put in a part of the costs you make to be able to do the job (the drone, the computer, the software etc.) An example:

You buy a computer for $1.500. Look at how much you can deduct of that over how many years for taxes, let's say 1/4th of the purchase value = $375 per year. Editing 375 hours per year, you need $1 an hour flight for the replacement of the computer after 4 years.

The same you calculate the software, the drone, the anual insurance and registration costs etc, all put down to the costs of flying.

Let's say, you come to $10 per hour flight to cover those costs.

You want a netto (after taxes, insurances etc) income of $25 per hour, calculate backwards what you should charge per hour. Lets say, you need to put $50 per hour work (no idea what those costs would be for you)

Do the same with all the other costs and then add them together.

In the end, you might get to $75 per hour work. Then you estimate how long you need to do the job (flight time, editing, finalizing) and take that time for your offer.

That is how I would calculate my offer.

Hope you will have enough bussiness to have some money left at the end!

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Thanks Olav, that is a lot of details and I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into it! I know setting up a small business is not going to be easy and I am still uncertain about whether there is enough of a market to make such a business sustainable. Some hard thinking ahead. Thanks again!

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Update: I submitted a proposal amounting to just below $400 and they accepted it (now I am thinking I should have gone for 500 LOL). Not an awesome deal; but also not so bad considering this is my first paid photography job. @MAvic_South_Oz and @THE CYBORG - I would really like to thank you both for your insights; you were both immensely helpful. This hobby photographer is now a commercial photographer (phew!). Next step is going to be establishing a proper small business

Awesome, glad you got this, and it all proceeds very well.
If possible, post some examples of the finished photos, (if permissible from the clients perspective) would be interesting to see.
I suppose it's more exposure for the clients hotel, and as they say any exposure is good exposure, ha ha no pun intended (exposure . . . photography . . . never mind )

 

[Olav van Gerven]

Thanks Olav, that is a lot of details and I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into it! I know setting up a small business is not going to be easy and I am still uncertain about whether there is enough of a market to make such a business sustainable. Some hard thinking ahead. Thanks again!

You're welcome. Calculating is a part of my work, so...

One remark, after a year, you have to ajust you calculations, based on what effectiv figures you have then. And for a starting bussiness, it is normal to have a negative result the first 4 or 5 years. Be aware of that, make sure you have another source of income that you might decreas as bussiness takes up speed - or keep if it doesn't.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks Olav, that is a lot of details and I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into it! I know setting up a small business is not going to be easy and I am still uncertain about whether there is enough of a market to make such a business sustainable. Some hard thinking ahead. Thanks again!

Take the time and effort to build an elaborate and comprehensive Business Plan before you do anything else. While creating your business plan you'll accomplish:

Market Research - who is your competition, what kind of prices does your area support, what type of finished product is via in your area.

Pricing Scheme - you'll learn what your Cost Of Doing Business and from there can you factor in desired income.

Advertising/Marketing Campaign - Once you know WHO your potential customers are you can then come up with the game plan on how to reach them.

We took roughly 6 months to build our Business Plan and I can tell you for SURE it changed HOW we established the business, how we obtain clients, and it gave us a good and reliable starting point for pricing.

If I had to guess I would venture to say our Business Plan saved us $10K and we are still "Tweaking It" to this day several years later. It's a lot of work to build a comprehensive BP but if done correctly it's worth a TON of $$ and it teaches you every aspect of your company inside and out.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

Thank you BigAL; appreciate the words of wisdom. Will take time to think about this.