Flying in "No Drone Zones"

[pcooper114]

Wanted to pick everyone's brain about this. So for starters, I'm a 107 pilot and have been for several years, so I know the rules when it comes to FAA rules superceding state and local rules and signs.

Our annual fair is in town, one of the largest in the country, and I'm planning to fly out there at some point. There have anyways been No Drones Allowed signage posted around the property, even though we're in Class E airspace with no restrictions. This is a state owned property, so I do take it a little more seriously than if it were a just a local law.

Problem is that I'm a classic rule follower and hate confrontation. With the size of this fair, there is law enforcement everywhere that I'm sure don't understand FAA regulations and Part 107, so I really just don't want to deal with that. Obviously I'm flying from off property, and not directly over where all the action is, so I don't anticipate any issues.

But does anyone have any thoughts? I mostly fly in more remote areas and do landscape photography, so just trying to avoid any issues

 

[Recoveryone]

It seems you have answered your own question (not wanting to deal with potential confrontation), but to move forward you also need to consider flight over people, and traffic. For local jurisdictions you may not face flight violations, but misdemeanor offensives (malicious mischief), catch all crime when nothing else covers it.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Don't FAA rules stipulates that flying over crowds is verbotten ?
Such a flight was discussed in a recent thread and I think it was said that the only exception to this was when the drone was fitted with various safety features, one? of which was a parachute.

 

[GFields]

I agree with @Recoveryone. You need to ask yourself if its worth it. However, if you decide to proceed, just make sure you have all your documentation on hand.

 

[GFields]

Don't FAA rules stipulates that flying over crowds is verbotten ?

Without a waiver or flying a drone that fits the category for FOP yes, it's forbidden.
More can be found here,

Operations Over People General Overview​

 

[pcooper114]

Sorry for not clarifying, I will not be flying over people and will probably just be flying around the perimeter

 

[mavic3usa]

You're like me, you follow the rules and you do your best not to break them and you, for sure, want to avoid any unwelcome confrontations. Which is why I like to have everything sorted *beforehand* so we don't have to deal with discretion and "no one really cares" and "you'll be fine as long as...." scenarios. If you see a bunch of no drone signs, I would not fly there unless you plan to deal with it. Even though those signs may not be legal, they are there for a reason and if it's a government entity, I would obey them until I could get it sorted. If they are private signs, ignore them. But if there is a state statute or a city ordinance, you need to take care of it or else obey it. Violate it only if you wish to challenge it.

Ultimately it's stinks because there are many who will avoid flying because they believe the signs are legit and they spread the word there are no fly zones all over town, etc. It doesn't help the hobby and it's also unfair if you fly there, no one says anything, and you don't get to properly challenge it. What I would hate to happen is you fly there, go home, someone got your details and 6 months later, you get a summons.

 

[Cafguy]

If you use your zoom and fly a safe distance you MAY not be breaking the law. But it is really not wise unless you plan to coordinate with the fair officials. Fairs have many things that can become an extreme danger. Including people on rides zooming around. and There is always the possibility of somehow interfering with Emergency Services.
If you really want to try it I would say contact the Fair offices or local Law enforcement.
If it is going to be a part 107 flight I would contact local law enforcement anyway it saves them and you headaches.

 

[msinger]

hate confrontation

It sounds like a confrontation is most definitely waiting for you if they've taken the time to post "no drone" signs. This might be more trouble than you're willing to deal with (even if it is legal).

 

[brett8883]

Wanted to pick everyone's brain about this. So for starters, I'm a 107 pilot and have been for several years, so I know the rules when it comes to FAA rules superceding state and local rules and signs.

Our annual fair is in town, one of the largest in the country, and I'm planning to fly out there at some point. There have anyways been No Drones Allowed signage posted around the property, even though we're in Class E airspace with no restrictions. This is a state owned property, so I do take it a little more seriously than if it were a just a local law.

Problem is that I'm a classic rule follower and hate confrontation. With the size of this fair, there is law enforcement everywhere that I'm sure don't understand FAA regulations and Part 107, so I really just don't want to deal with that. Obviously I'm flying from off property, and not directly over where all the action is, so I don't anticipate any issues.

But does anyone have any thoughts? I mostly fly in more remote areas and do landscape photography, so just trying to avoid any issues

The no drone signs probably refer to taking off from the State owned property which is their right to restrict you from doing. If you are taking off from another property that you have permission to fly from and you are following all the other rules, I don’t think you’ll have an issue.

I give it a very low chance anyone will notice much less confront you about it, and if they do just explain you are an FAA licensed Pilot and you are allowed to fly there.

 

[Jim Martin]

If you want to avoid a confrontation, consider approaching the police (or whatever security handles the event) and talk to them about what you plan on doing. If they are okay with your plans, problem solved. If they object, then you can decide to go along with what they say, or you can try to explain why you think it's okay and you can back down as soon as you've passed your comfort level.

 

[AMann]

Look into Pole Aerial Photography - there’s even a user’s group on Flickr that can help you get your own rig set up for it. It’s funny, FAA regulates tethered drones but not poles that can go pretty high also, and take wonderful aerial photos that rival the best ones made by drones because you can even hoist a DSLR up a with a pole and most consumer drones can’t lift them.

 

[wco81]

Look into Pole Aerial Photography - there’s even a user’s group on Flickr that can help you get your own rig set up for it. It’s funny, FAA regulates tethered drones but not poles that can go pretty high also, and take wonderful aerial photos that rival the best ones made by drones because you can even hoist a DSLR up a with a pole and most consumer drones can’t lift them.

Just searched this.

A 6 meter pole is over €1000 and weighs almost 6 pounds and is 4 feet for transport. Comes with mount head and something to hold your phone or tablet.

PHOTOMAST MK2 6 meter | 19.7 FT – Photomast.com

PHOTOMAST MK2 6 meter | 19.7 FT ✅ Worldwide shipping ✅ Shipped next business day ✅ 14 day return policy ✅ Lifetime warranty

photomast.com

I guess it’s an option in some public venues with crowds where you wouldn’t be able to fly drones.

But it’s a heavier kit than a drone.

 

[AMann]

I use a 6-meter, $99 USD telescoping flag pole and also a 7-meter $40 US Dtelescoping painter’s pole.

20 ft. Telescoping Flag Pole Kit

Amazing deals on this 20Ft Telescoping Flag Pole Kit at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Mr-LongArm-Alumiglass-8-2-ft-to-23-2-ft-Telescoping-Threaded-Extension-Pole/50428086#no_universal_links

The flag pole requires some modification to put a camera adapter on it, but the painters pole uses this adapter to attach my camera to it:

https://a.co/d/eIEhBFQ

 

[wco81]

Interesting. I guess if you have a car, you can carry the stuff but not so easy if you want to do this kind of photography overseas, unless you can find similar setups in other countries.

 

[AMann]

Interesting. I guess if you have a car, you can carry the stuff but not so easy if you want to do this kind of photography overseas, unless you can find similar setups in other countries.

…and in some countries like Spain, a pole is pretty much all you can use for elevated photography. Good thing is you can buy suitable poles anywhere, just take along the adapter.

 

[High_Order1]

I would not talk to local law enforcement (I realize this is way over by now, just wanted to provide some thoughts).

Same for security. Neither food group are allowed to really think about problems. Few, if any know the first thing about 'drones'. But they can read that sign.

But they both also understand pieces of paper.

Talk to the event management, email is better. Tell them you aren't flying for pay, but want to cover the event. They may even be interested in retaining your services. At the least, you could walk away with an email proving you are ok.

People are spun up about remote aerial platforms. Even if you are completely within FAA regulations operating where you are, and not overflighting vehicles or pedestrians, consider the negative potential impacts if you get jammed up and it is a slow news cycle.

They aren't going to hear you were cleared 6 months later, but they will use a picture of an officer carrying your drone like a dead duck while they load you in the car to further investigate over and over and over. You left that gift dropper absentmindedly on your airframe? Uhoh. That thing have a zoom lens? Your recorded flight track point towards a bathroom? uhoh.

Eventually, with a few thousand in lawyer fees and months of court resets... was it really worth it?

I am by no means saying let ignorant people ruin your fun. I am just saying that if you go talk to the people in charge, find out their concerns, and work with them, is easier than 'the FAA says I am ok'.