Flying M3P in Europe?

[js47]

I had my Mavic Pro registered to go to Ireland back in 2020

Good news is that the A1/A3 online training is good for 5 years — though you don't actually need that for a Mini. You do need to renew your operator registration annually (which you need even to fly a Mini).

I also try not to fly near people (my focus too is landscape). I at least try to fly only at times when people aren't active (which tends to coincide with the best light anyway), but people are pretty hard to avoid in Europe. More often than not I am flying where there probably aren't any people, but there might be and there is no way to tell — for example, at dawn over a town with narrow streets. I'll upload an example from a few weeks ago below.

It wasn't long ago that I was not a drone flyer, and I always found drones to be incredibly annoying (and still do to be fair). It is a lot easier to make enemies than friends while buzzing around like a swarm of angry bees, and I try to do my part to avoid turning public opinion further against us whenever possible — already we nearly need a law degree to parse the varied and complicated regulations. We hardly need to give anyone the excuse to make them even more confusing. Flying far from people and staying as invisible as possible is the easiest way to keep people outside the drone community happy with us.


I was careful to stay <45m AGL, but if flying the C2-classed Mavic 3 Pro I'd have had to maintain over 300m horizontal distance from these towns (1:1 rule). That would have made all of the shots I had envisioned completely impossible. Honestly, I feel like I'd have barely been able to even take off anywhere in Italy at all!

 

[Kilboar]

Thank you much, I agree with others drones being annoying. The Mavic 3 Pro, is very loud as well. Where as I’m hoping the mini 3pro is much quieter and looks more like a toy.

 

[SkywalkerFeng]

Good news is that the A1/A3 online training is good for 5 years — though you don't actually need that for a Mini. You do need to renew your operator registration annually (which you need even to fly a Mini).

I also try not to fly near people (my focus too is landscape). I at least try to fly only at times when people aren't active (which tends to coincide with the best light anyway), but people are pretty hard to avoid in Europe. More often than not I am flying where there probably aren't any people, but there might be and there is no way to tell — for example, at dawn over a town with narrow streets. I'll upload an example from a few weeks ago below.

It wasn't long ago that I was not a drone flyer, and I always found drones to be incredibly annoying (and still do to be fair). It is a lot easier to make enemies than friends while buzzing around like a swarm of angry bees, and I try to do my part to avoid turning public opinion further against us whenever possible — already we nearly need a law degree to parse the varied and complicated regulations. We hardly need to give anyone the excuse to make them even more confusing. Flying far from people and staying as invisible as possible is the easiest way to keep people outside the drone community happy with us.

View attachment 165462View attachment 165464
I was careful to stay <45m AGL, but if flying the C2-classed Mavic 3 Pro I'd have had to maintain over 300m horizontal distance from these towns (1:1 rule). That would have made all of the shots I had envisioned completely impossible. Honestly, I feel like I'd have barely been able to even take off anywhere in Italy at all!

Can you explain in more detail about why having to maintain over 300m horizontal distance from towns?

I read your earlier post about 30m horizontal separation from people, but nowhere did it mention having to maintain 300m separation from towns.

 

[js47]

Thank you much, I agree with others drones being annoying. The Mavic 3 Pro, is very loud as well. Where as I’m hoping the mini 3pro is much quieter and looks more like a toy.

I haven't bought a Mini 3 (yet...) but I have heard that it is significantly quieter than the Mini 2, which I had briefly before the Mavic 3. I find the Mavic 3 to be quieter than the Mini 2 (or at least the lower pitch of the noise makes it much more pleasant). I’ve also heard that the Mini 3 is much quieter than the Mavic 3 so if that’s true the new Mini should be really nice and quiet.

Can you explain in more detail about why having to maintain over 300m horizontal distance from towns?

I read your earlier post about 30m horizontal separation from people, but nowhere did it mention having to maintain 300m separation from towns.

Good question. The 300m is just following the 1:1 rule. In the EEA a C2 Mavic 3 Pro is allowed to fly as close to people as 5m when in a low speed mode, but only when 5m or less above ground level. Above 5m AGL you must maintain horizontal distance at least equal to height.

When I took this shot I was 50m above the hill which itself was 250m above the towns, where I would have to assume there might be people. Total height above towns: about 300m. So it isn’t the towns I would be maintaining the 300m distance from but rather from the hypothetical people in the streets.

 

[Robert Prior]

The 300m is just following the 1:1 rule.

That's the rule that decided me on the Mini 3 for travelling to Europe.

 

[js47]

That's the rule that decided me on the Mini 3 for travelling to Europe.

Just to clarify for anyone reading: there are a few good reasons to choose the Mini when buying a new drone, but the 1:1 rule is not one of them.

The original Mavic 3 and Mavic 3 Classic fly under essentially the same rules as the <250g drones, but yield much better image quality (plus have better wind resistance and a multitude of other features).

The only reasons to choose the Mini over the Mavic 3 original/Classic are size, cost, or if you specifically plan to fly in towns in the UK.

 

[waynorth]

Just to clarify for anyone reading: there are a few good reasons to choose the Mini when buying a new drone, but the 1:1 rule is not one of them.

The original Mavic 3 and Mavic 3 Classic fly under essentially the same rules as the <250g drones, but yield much better image quality (plus have better wind resistance and a multitude of other features).

The only reasons to choose the Mini over the Mavic 3 original/Classic are size, cost, or if you specifically plan to fly in towns in the UK.

In most European countries (EASA members) all drones over 500 gram must follow the 1:1 rule.

 

[js47]

In most European countries (EASA members) all drones over 500 gram must follow the 1:1 rule.

If the drone has the C1 class marking then it does not have to follow the 1:1 rule in EEA member countries. The 1:1 rule does however need to be followed if the drone is >250g and does not have the C1 class marking.

 

[waynorth]

If the drone has the C1 class marking then it does not have to follow the 1:1 rule in EEA member countries. The 1:1 rule does however need to be followed if the drone is >250g and does not have the C1 class marking.

You are right. Sorry.

 

[isdoo]

Fly it often in the UK.

I also fly with my A2 CofC and under Article 16 which gives a bit more freedom.

Not had any major issues yet.

 

[js47]

Fly it often in the UK.

I also fly with my A2 CofC and under Article 16 which gives a bit more freedom.

Not had any major issues yet.

I’d be curious to know more specifically what you mean by “under Article 16”?

 

[KS-6]

Sorry I am late to this party but figured I'd chime in since I don't think your question was really specifically answered. You didn't specify EEA or UK ("Europe" is a geographical term not a political one) so I will give both sets of info. This is all correct, current, and comprehensive to the best of my knowledge.

UK​

It should be noted that the rules for the UK are different than the rules for the EU. The UK is much more restrictive than the EU since the UK CAA does not recognize the EASA Class Labels (C0, C1, C2, etc). In the UK everyone needs an Operator ID (even for a Mini since it has a camera). It is easy and quick to get an Operator ID (costs £10). If the drone weighs >250g then you also need a Flyer ID (also easy and quick to get, and the Flyer ID is free. This is comparable to the basic EU A1/A3 test). This page breaks down those rules: https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/getting-what-you-need-to-fly

• Note that by CAA rules you are only required to have insurance if the drone weighs more than 20kg or if you are working commercially.
• If your drone weighs <250g (ie, the Mini series only) then you can overfly people. You must have an Operator ID since the drone has a camera.
• If your drone weighs >250g but less than 500g then you can overfly people, but not intentionally and it must be brief. This category comprises I think exclusively of the Spark and original Mavic Air (not 2 or 2S — those are >500g). You must have both an Operator ID and a Flyer ID.
• If your drone weighs over 500g (and up to 25kg) then you must stay >50m away from any uninvolved people at all times and >150m away from any structure. This category includes all of the non-Mini Mavic series drones (including the Air2 and Air2S) and all of the Inspire drones. You must have both an Operator ID and a Flyer ID.
  • "Structure" is very broadly defined by the CAA and includes basically everything you can imagine: individual residential buildings, small groups of residential buildings, housing estates, villages, cities and towns, schools, tourist attractions, sports facilities, beaches and parks, theme parks, shopping centres, warehouses, business parks, factories, docks, rail and transport hubs, etc. Source for this list: https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/where-you-can-fly
  • If you have the A2 CofC certification, which is pretty easy but takes a few days to obtain (all online), you can fly near structures with a drone >250g and <2kg, but you still must maintain 50m separation from uninvolved people (even in low speed mode). Costs about £70.
• This official PDF from the CAA breaks these rules down: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP2012_Drone_Rules_Factsheet_V11.pdf

EEA​

Relative to the UK the EEA offers a lot of freedom for us due to the class labeling system. Similar to the UK, everyone flying a drone with a camera in the EU needs a Drone Registration ID number which is quick and easy and costs €30. That is all you need to fly a Mini 3 since it is Class C0. If flying something heavier than 250g then you also need to take the A1/A3 test (very easy and pretty quick – costs an additional €30). Note for English speakers: you can do all your registrations and certifications with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA). These FAQ explain the rules more explicitly: Drones (UAS) | EASA

• Note that by EASA rules you are only required to have insurance if the drone weighs more than 20kg. Some member countries might have a lower limit.
• If your drone weighs <250g or has a C0 class marking (Mini 3) then you can overfly uninvolved people. You must register as a UAS operator.
• If your drone has a C1 class marking (original Mavic 3 and Mavic 3 Classic), then you can fly "close to people" and overfly them, but it must be minimized as much as possible. You must register as a UAS operator and complete the A1/A3 online training.
• If your drone has a C2 class marking (the new Mavic 3 Pro), then you must not overfly people and must maintain a 30m horizontal separation. This reduces to 5m if flying in a low speed mode. Unlike in the UK, however, there is no restriction for flying near structures. You must register as a UAS operator and complete the A1/A3 online training.
• If your drone has no class marking but weighs <2kg (Air2, Air2S, unmarked Mavic 3, unmarked Mavic 3 Classic, unmarked Mavic 3 Pro) then you can fly in the A2 subcategory if you obtain the A2 certification (same content as the UK A2 CofC, but you need to do the EU version which costs about €150). If you do not obtain the A2 certification then you must fly in the A3 subcategory and maintain at least 150m horizontal separation from structures and uninvolved people (same rules as for unmarked drones <25kg). You must register as a UAS operator and complete the A1/A3 online training.
• If your drone has a C3 or C4 class marking (Inspire 3) then the rules are slightly unclear but it is one of the following. You must register as a UAS operator and complete the A1/A3 online training.
  • Stay 150m from structures and uninvolved people (which would be the same rules as for <25kg unmarked drones). Source EASA: Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA
  • Stay 30m from uninvolved people and 150m from structures. Source IAA: https://iaastaticassets.mysrs.ie/media/uas/on_line_training_v1.pdf
• If your drone is not class marked but <25kg (Inspire 2, Inspire 1) then you must maintain 150m from uninvolved people and structures at all times.

RECOMMENDATIONS​

Europe is in general pretty densely populated so the only drones that make sense to take to the EEA are the Mini 3, Mavic 3 Original, and Mavic 3 Classic. Note that not all Mavic 3 and Mavic 3 Classic drones ship with the C1 sticker so you must ensure that you purchase one with the sticker! The only way to ensure that is to buy the drone in the EU. It is possible to get the C1 sticker for the Mavic 3 after purchase, but it is a pain. It is not currently possible to obtain the C1 sticker after purchase for the Mavic 3 Classic. The hassle is worth it for the extra image quality and flyability of the Mavic 3 versus the Mini 3. The C1 class marked original Mavic 3 or Mavic 3 Classic would be my top picks for flights in the EEA.

The UK is also pretty densely populated but I think the same recommendations apply: Mini 3, Mavic 3, or Mavic 3 Classic — with the caveat that if you are flying the one of latter two drones you really do need to get the A2 certification and you will only be able to fly in cities and towns if there are no people around (ie dawn and dusk in the summertime). In the UK you can fly a Mavic 3 Pro anywhere that you can fly an original Mavic 3 or Mavic 3 Classic, but I would strongly prefer the non-Pro version so that it can also be flown without annoying restrictions in the EU which is right next door! I live in the UK and fly an original Mavic 3 both here and in the EU. The original Mavic 3, Mavic 3 Classic, or Mini 3 would be my top picks for flights in the UK.

Great info, thanks!

I will be in the Scottish Highlands for three weeks this Fall and have not decided to take one of my Mavic's or not yet, main focus will be ground based medium format image making. If I do take a drone though, for reasons of wind resistance and much better cameras, I would take my Mavic 3 Pro and get the correct documentation in order. Other choices are a Mavic 3 Cine, Mini 3 Pro and Autel EVO II Enterprise.

Not decided yet but have a better idea of the logistics.

 

[js47]

Great info, thanks!

I will be in the Scottish Highlands for three weeks this Fall and have not decided to take one of my Mavic's or not yet, main focus will be ground based medium format image making. If I do take a drone though, for reasons of wind resistance and much better cameras, I would take my Mavic 3 Pro and get the correct documentation in order. Other choices are a Mavic 3 Cine, Mini 3 Pro and Autel EVO II Enterprise.

Not decided yet but have a better idea of the logistics.

I was in Skye last fall. One of the windiest places I’ve ever been!!

In the UK the original Mavic 3 flies under the exact same rules as the Mavic 3 Pro. Without an A2 certification they both fly under the same rules as an Inspire also! So if choosing a drone from your list for the UK, I’d take the Mavic 3 Pro (or the Mavic 3 Cine if you need ProRes or plan to visit the EU — even if you just have a short airport layover that should be enough to apply for the C1 label).

Not too many cities in the Highlands but if there is any danger of you wanting to fly near a town it might be worth also packing your Mini 3 with one battery.