Going on 3 years without a crash. What's my secret?

[Donnie Frank]

Sandbox everything!

What is it to "sandbox" something?

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

About 7 years of flying DJI products, somewhere around 3000 flights and never crash.......Until this past June when I was in Bermuda flying off a beach with cliffs on one side. After a 5 minutes of flying I decided I wanted to sit down in my beach chair. Brought the drone to a hover about 50ft away from me and about 20ft from a large rock. As I was sitting down I bumped the controller against my leg and it took off towards the rock. Almost saved it. Luckily the drone was fine, cracked a prop and scuffed up the body.

Good story. Don't you hate when **** like that happens? That said, which firmware do you use? Have you ever had to login to DJI for the privilege of using a product you already paid for?

Imagine if automobiles had that model...that every few month you had to log them in to get a new speed restriction or geographic restriction. I don't think that that car company would sell many cars.

Driving along....everything freezes Firmware 2019.8.3 & 8.4

Made me chuckle but mildly unnerving.

forums.tesla.com

D

 

[FASTFJR]

Good story. Don't you hate when **** like that happens? That said, which firmware do you use? Have you ever had to login to DJI for the privilege of using a product you already paid for?

Imagine if automobiles had that model...that every few month you had to log them in to get a new speed restriction or geographic restriction. I don't think that that car company would sell many cars.

Driving along....everything freezes Firmware 2019.8.3 & 8.4

Made me chuckle but mildly unnerving.

forums.tesla.com

D

Only when I need to

Not yet

 

[GadgetGuy]

What is it to "sandbox" something?

D

Google is your friend.

Sandbox (computer security) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In the context of DJI, pick a stable GEO and NFZ free FW, a stable app without GEO, a completely dedicated tablet, and then don't allow anything to access to the internet!

However, DJI surreptitiously inserted Trojan Horses into even the GEO free earlier FW and apps that were later activated. However, if you haven't had issues because of it, leave it alone! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Spin]

"Going on 3 years without a crash. What's my secret?"

Flight Simulator!

 

[Randy]

I got one of the first Mavic’s that rolled off the assembly line, I fly it all the time and it’s never been crashed. I did have several starter drones previously and wrecked them lots.

 

[Slim.slamma]

Hey doods;

First off, I'm going to qualify my initial assertion by stating that I DID have 2 crashes last year due to prop failures. Both crashes occurred during automated flights. So these crashes were not caused by unpredictable software behavior, run-aways or pilot error. I made a video about those crashes:

Outside those failures, I haven't had a crash in years. I attribute my flight success to a couple things:

1) Practice, practice, practice. Get a small drone with prop guards and fly around the house. If you can fly a small, cheap drone around the house, then your skill level is probably better than 90% of the drone pilots out there. This skill directly translates to more expensive drones, as the controls and behaviors are exactly the same.

2) Don't count on technology to save your ***. While Object Avoidance looks good on paper, in all reality, it's is NOT reliable. A very large percentage of crashes I read about are either due to flat-out failure of the OA, or unreasonable expectations for the OA system. I have TURNED OFF OA on all my vehicles, and don't use it (and therefore, don't COUNT on it) at all.

3) Probably the most important protocol to follow: Find a firmware and software version that work, and STICK WITH THEM. Another large portion of crashes seem to be due to random, erroneous drone behavior. Every time DJI releases a new firmware/software version to be more and more compliant with ever-growing FAA regulation, make no mistake; YOU ARE THE BETA TESTER. I run legacy (read: YEARS OLD) firmware and software on ALL THREE of my birds (Inspire 1, v2, Mavic Pro and P4P), and I could not be happier. My drones are rock-solid reliable, but more importantly, BEHAVE PREDICTABLY.

Here's a list of the FW/Software I use:

Inspire 1:

Go App: v3.1.1
App database: v00.00.01.04
Aircraft: v1.8.1.00
Remote: v1.6
X3 Camera: v1.8.1
X5 Camera: v1.11.1.50


Mavic Pro:

Go App: v3.1.1
Go4 App: 4.0.8
Aircraft: 01.03.0700
Remote Controller: 01.03.0700
Flight Database: 00.00.01.04
Basic App Fly Safe Database: 01.00.01.05
Precise App Fly Safe Database: 01.00.01.05


Phantom 4 Pro:

App: v4.0.8
Aircraft: v1.3.509
Remote: v01.04.01.00
Precise Fly Safe database: v00.00.01.04
Basic Fly Safe database: v00.00.01.04


4) When flying automated flights, an elevated level of diligence is required. Most of my jobs utilize Intelligent Flight Modes or Waypoint automation. Because I don't rely on Object Avoidance, I HAVE to understand my environment, the path the drone is going to take, and more importantly, be on the ready to stop the mission should something go awry. The "ATTI" or "Sport Mode" buttons are your panic buttons. If you're flying an automated flight that looks like it might land you in a tree or smash you into the side of the building, toggle these switches. You can bring the drone back to GPS mode.

5) Test, test, test. Never once have I ever gone into the field with an untested platform. EVERY aspect of that job has been tested with a near-duplicate of that mission under controlled circumstances like a park or open field.

My partner and I just got a job doing extended LIDAR missions with his M600. You can absolutely bet that we are going to test the bejesus out of this BEFORE loading up the vehicle and traveling 5 hours to the job site. I have planned dummy payload flights to simulate the LIDAR unit's payload and current draw. Once those tests have flown successfully, we'll move on to tests with the actual LIDAR unit, which includes data acquisition. You can bet that we will reproduce every nuance of our planned mission, including battery changes mid mission and exit strategies, but in a controlled environment. Which brings me to #6.

6) ALWAYS have an exit strategy. Practice abandoning and recovering from rogue missions. Put yourself in pretend, emergency scenarios under controlled conditions. For example, what if you're flying a remote mapping mission and a low-flying helicopter comes into your mission space? You have to:

A) Pause the mission.
B) Bring the drone down to a safe altitude.
C) Continue the mission.

Without practicing this, you might panic and/or not be able to continue your mission, which means starting over. I HATE starting over.

Anyway, I hope all this helps. I posted this because I see crashes and runaways almost daily in the 3 forums I belong to. I don't fly every day, but I DO fly every week. So my experience is valid.

Good luck!

D

Thanks for sharing
?

 

[marcorasi1960]

What are all the bad new constraints that DJI is adding to new software? Can you give an example or two of what you call 'Naziware'? I am trying to understand what I am missing out on by using latest software. Thank you

 

[Donnie Frank]

Google is your friend.

I did. Turns out the word "sandbox" means a whole bunch of things NOT related to drones. Up to, and including...wait for it...sand boxes.

In the context of DJI, pick a stable GEO and NFZ free FW, a stable app without GEO, a completely dedicated tablet, and then don't allow anything to access to the internet!

Well, you're half correct. All 3 of my iPads are dedicated for my drone and sound company. On this point we fully agree. However, I disagree with your second assertion.

In order for me to work and make a living, I have to cache maps and SRTM data. I also have to move files from one iPad to the next and on and on. While I CAN turn off WiFi AFTER all my maps and SRTM data are cached, clearly I need the Internet to get those items in the first place. That said...

I have also discovered that there deeply-embedded iOS settings that allow your apps to update without your knowledge. I thought there was only ONE setting for this in the app itself. Not so. There are OTHER settings one much shut down to insure one's iPad doesn't update iOS OR apps. Once I found this setting, the erroneous, seemingly random app updates stopped.

However, DJI surreptitiously inserted Trojan Horses into even the GEO free earlier FW and apps that were later activated.

I believe you. DJI's Firmware/Software act VERY MUCH like a Trojan virus - doing things the user neither wants nor needs at the most inconvenient of times.

However, if you haven't had issues because of it, leave it alone! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Exactly. All one has to do is look at the firmware settings to see which options DJI has. Newer firmware = more "Trojans" in waiting. I use legacy firmware in combination with legacy software and some light hacking to get my drones to behave perfectly. Every drone in my arsenal is a reliable work horse.

D

 

[Van Shteffy]

Hey doods;

First off, I'm going to qualify my initial assertion by stating that I DID have 2 crashes last year due to prop failures. Both crashes occurred during automated flights. So these crashes were not caused by unpredictable software behavior, run-aways or pilot error. I made a video about those crashes:

Outside those failures, I haven't had a crash in years. I attribute my flight success to a couple things:

1) Practice, practice, practice. Get a small drone with prop guards and fly around the house. If you can fly a small, cheap drone around the house, then your skill level is probably better than 90% of the drone pilots out there. This skill directly translates to more expensive drones, as the controls and behaviors are exactly the same.

2) Don't count on technology to save your ***. While Object Avoidance looks good on paper, in all reality, it's is NOT reliable. A very large percentage of crashes I read about are either due to flat-out failure of the OA, or unreasonable expectations for the OA system. I have TURNED OFF OA on all my vehicles, and don't use it (and therefore, don't COUNT on it) at all.

3) Probably the most important protocol to follow: Find a firmware and software version that work, and STICK WITH THEM. Another large portion of crashes seem to be due to random, erroneous drone behavior. Every time DJI releases a new firmware/software version to be more and more compliant with ever-growing FAA regulation, make no mistake; YOU ARE THE BETA TESTER. I run legacy (read: YEARS OLD) firmware and software on ALL THREE of my birds (Inspire 1, v2, Mavic Pro and P4P), and I could not be happier. My drones are rock-solid reliable, but more importantly, BEHAVE PREDICTABLY.

Here's a list of the FW/Software I use:

Inspire 1:

Go App: v3.1.1
App database: v00.00.01.04
Aircraft: v1.8.1.00
Remote: v1.6
X3 Camera: v1.8.1
X5 Camera: v1.11.1.50


Mavic Pro:

Go App: v3.1.1
Go4 App: 4.0.8
Aircraft: 01.03.0700
Remote Controller: 01.03.0700
Flight Database: 00.00.01.04
Basic App Fly Safe Database: 01.00.01.05
Precise App Fly Safe Database: 01.00.01.05


Phantom 4 Pro:

App: v4.0.8
Aircraft: v1.3.509
Remote: v01.04.01.00
Precise Fly Safe database: v00.00.01.04
Basic Fly Safe database: v00.00.01.04


4) When flying automated flights, an elevated level of diligence is required. Most of my jobs utilize Intelligent Flight Modes or Waypoint automation. Because I don't rely on Object Avoidance, I HAVE to understand my environment, the path the drone is going to take, and more importantly, be on the ready to stop the mission should something go awry. The "ATTI" or "Sport Mode" buttons are your panic buttons. If you're flying an automated flight that looks like it might land you in a tree or smash you into the side of the building, toggle these switches. You can bring the drone back to GPS mode.

5) Test, test, test. Never once have I ever gone into the field with an untested platform. EVERY aspect of that job has been tested with a near-duplicate of that mission under controlled circumstances like a park or open field.

My partner and I just got a job doing extended LIDAR missions with his M600. You can absolutely bet that we are going to test the bejesus out of this BEFORE loading up the vehicle and traveling 5 hours to the job site. I have planned dummy payload flights to simulate the LIDAR unit's payload and current draw. Once those tests have flown successfully, we'll move on to tests with the actual LIDAR unit, which includes data acquisition. You can bet that we will reproduce every nuance of our planned mission, including battery changes mid mission and exit strategies, but in a controlled environment. Which brings me to #6.

6) ALWAYS have an exit strategy. Practice abandoning and recovering from rogue missions. Put yourself in pretend, emergency scenarios under controlled conditions. For example, what if you're flying a remote mapping mission and a low-flying helicopter comes into your mission space? You have to:

A) Pause the mission.
B) Bring the drone down to a safe altitude.
C) Continue the mission.

Without practicing this, you might panic and/or not be able to continue your mission, which means starting over. I HATE starting over.

Anyway, I hope all this helps. I posted this because I see crashes and runaways almost daily in the 3 forums I belong to. I don't fly every day, but I DO fly every week. So my experience is valid.

Good luck!

D

Thanks for taking the time to give us your valuable information about your experiences.

 

[geevee]

you also clearly don't believe in jinxing yourself.

 

[Donnie Frank]

you also clearly don't believe in jinxing yourself.

Hehe...okay....NOW I'm jinxed!....<;^)

D

 

[franknitty69]

knock on that wood. i went years without a crash. og props on all my drones. and then all of a sudden in the last month...cancel christmas. crashed the mavic pro into a tree. broke the gimbal cable. a few weeks later crashed into a tree. broke the gimbal cable and one of the arms. and since i needed the shot, broke out the backup drone and crashed that into a tree. luckily nothing broke.

i still needed to get the shot so broke out the inspire 1 that is suffering from no image transmission...landing gear stuck in travel mode and the x3 gimbal was rolling to the side the whole flight. super facepalm

 

[Thomas B]

knock on that wood. i went years without a crash. og props on all my drones. and then all of a sudden in the last month...cancel christmas. crashed the mavic pro into a tree. broke the gimbal cable. a few weeks later crashed into a tree. broke the gimbal cable and one of the arms. and since i needed the shot, broke out the backup drone and crashed that into a tree. luckily nothing broke.

i still needed to get the shot so broke out the inspire 1 that is suffering from no image transmission...landing gear stuck in travel mode and the x3 gimbal was rolling to the side the whole flight. super facepalm

Sounds like it was not meant to be....

 

[GadgetGuy]

If you haven't ever crashed, your videos are likely pretty boring. Pushing the limits and flying close creates impact. Pushing the envelope requires occasionally exceeding it. Each to their own.

 

[RobH2]

@Donnie Frank

Aside from all the posts your thread generated I have a question for you. Can you elaborate on the prop failures that caused your problems? I've been flying over 3 years also with both an Inspire2 and a Mavic Pro Platinum. I've had no crashes or incidents. I have around 600 flights and 100 hours. I inspect my aircraft and props all the time but what failed on yours that caused crashes?

 

[Donnie Frank]

knock on that wood. i went years without a crash. og props on all my drones. and then all of a sudden in the last month...cancel christmas. crashed the mavic pro into a tree. broke the gimbal cable. a few weeks later crashed into a tree. broke the gimbal cable and one of the arms. and since i needed the shot, broke out the backup drone and crashed that into a tree. luckily nothing broke.

i still needed to get the shot so broke out the inspire 1 that is suffering from no image transmission...landing gear stuck in travel mode and the x3 gimbal was rolling to the side the whole flight. super facepalm

Knocking on wood like there's no tomorrow....<:^0

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

If you haven't ever crashed, your videos are likely pretty boring. Pushing the limits and flying close creates impact. Pushing the envelope requires occasionally exceeding it. Each to their own.

I didn't say I never crashed. I said I haven't crashed in 3 years.

Here's a video of me flying my Phantom 1 THROUGH a tree over 5 years ago. When you get that shot, call me....<;^)

And don't ask me how I flew my Phantom 1 THROUGH a tree without so much as upsetting the gimbal. It's a trade secret.

D

Disclaimer: Yeah, the cinematography is crappy. But at this point of the game I was still learning to fly and experimenting with different drones I had built. My only objective was to stay on a moving subject while moving about space and to test my ability to fly through trees limbs. I believe the gimbal was a Tarot 2-axis gimbal.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Aside from all the posts your thread generated I have a question for you. Can you elaborate on the prop failures that caused your problems?

Yes.

I've been flying over 3 years also with both an Inspire2 and a Mavic Pro Platinum. I've had no crashes or incidents. I have around 600 flights and 100 hours. I inspect my aircraft and props all the time but what failed on yours that caused crashes?

As you can see in the video, it seems the rotor just separated from the hub. Mid flight. Twice.

D

 

[Drgnfli]

I agree with all your info except one item; loved the video with the dogs too! I don't agree with turning off the Object Avoidance but then again I still consider myself an amateur droner compared to many on this forum. My OA has avoided a few tree crunches in my 2 years of flying so I would never turn it off. Thankx for your pointers on droning...