HELP!!! Using 400' AGL as my ceiling hypothetically

[JustJeff]

Hi guys and gals. I've searched, and couldn't find my specific question or answer. So, I'm hoping you'll help me.

I'm not a part 107 holder, and strictly a recreational flier and want to stay within the rules. When I set my maximin altitude on my controller, I set it to 350', just to be what I thought was safe. I've got 40 acres of property at my home, and I'm just wondering. If I want to fly the perimeter of my property from a the max altitude that I've set (350') my drone to, is that altitude referencing from where the drone has taken off? Meaning if I take off from a hill on my property, and then fly up to 350', when the drone gets to a valley on my property, if that valley were more than 50', would I now be in violation of the recreational fliers rules? I don't have a 50' variation in elevation on my property, but I just want to be safe, and know for future reference.

Thank you all for your replies!

 

[Meta4]

is that altitude referencing from where the drone has taken off?

The height shown on your screen is relative to where you powered up the drone.

 

[JustJeff]

The height shown on your screen is relative to where you powered up the drone.

Thank you. So, I guess that should be factored in each time I fly. And I guess I should always use the lowest point of my property to take off from, or lower my "max altitude" in my controller to compensate for the altitude variations of my property, or wherever I happen to be flying at?

 

[cheddar-man]

The height indicated on the Fly App is height above where you took off from, the barometer resets to zero when you take off.
You are allowed to fly 400' above the ground. If you take off and there is a slope rising 50' you can follow the contour so you height will indicate 450' but you are still legal (here in the UK).This explains it.

 

[cheddar-man]

Thank you. So, I guess that should be factored in each time I fly. And I guess I should always use the lowest point of my property to take off from, or lower my "max altitude" in my controller to compensate for the altitude variations of my property, or wherever I happen to be flying at?

No, see my reply above.

 

[dronerdave]

I set my altitude to max and leave it there even though I rarely fly over 200' above the ground. In hilly terrain I don't have an issue keeping it below 400 feet. To fly up the side of a steep hill, I want the max altitude which allows me to make it up a reasonable distance while flying no higher than a hundred feet or so AGL.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Regarding the 400ft AGL rule where it applies, imagine a 400ft long weighted string tied to the bottom of the drone, that string should always be able to contact the ground directly beneath the drone.
The UK rule is slightly different, the string must be able to contact the ground SOMEWHERE.
So, in the UK, a drone pilot would be able to fly a drone up and over the top of a 500ft tall cliff PROVIDING the drone was within 400ft of the cliff's face during the climb. A recreational pilot flying in the USA would not legally be able to reach the top of that cliff.

 

[Desert Sands]

Regarding the 400ft AGL rule where it applies, imagine a 400ft long weighted string tied to the bottom of the drone, that string should always be able to contact the ground directly beneath the drone.
The UK rule is slightly different, the string must be able to contact the ground SOMEWHERE.
So, in the UK, a drone pilot would be able to fly a drone up and over the top of a 500ft tall cliff PROVIDING the drone was always within 400ft of the cliff's face. A recreational pilot flying in the USA would not legally be able to reach the top of that cliff.

Yorkshire... thanks for that... I never knew that about UK rules. I have nearly the exact situation you describe Here in Nevada... It really makes it a pain to do inspections on a communications tower because of a cliff near the tower. Thanks for the input.

 

[MS Coast]

No, see my reply above.

"Meaning if I take off from a hill on my property, and then fly up to 350', when the drone gets to a valley on my property, if that valley were more than 50', would I now be in violation of the recreational fliers rules?"

Hmm. If he climbs to 350' above the takeoff point and then flies over ground that's 51' below the elevation of the takeoff point, the drone will be at 401 AGL over that low area.

 

[JustJeff]

"Meaning if I take off from a hill on my property, and then fly up to 350', when the drone gets to a valley on my property, if that valley were more than 50', would I now be in violation of the recreational fliers rules?"

Hmm. If he climbs to 350' above the takeoff point and then flies over ground that's 51' below the elevation of the takeoff point, the drone will be at 401 AGL over that low area.

That is my understanding as well. But people have commented to the contrary. I seem to have heard two different answers to my question already. I'm confused.

 

[dronerdave]

In the US (under FAA recreational rules) normally you're required to fly at 400 feet or lower directly below the aircraft. So if I fly up a hill with slope, I can go to my max height setting (500 meter) and as long as I have 400 feet (or lower) directly below my drone I'm in compliance. It's a poor rule and should be similar to the UK's rules but unfortunately it isn't.
Also don't confuse flight operations in regard to man-made structures under 107 rules with recreational rules.

 

[Meta4]

That is my understanding as well. But people have commented to the contrary. I seem to have heard two different answers to my question already. I'm confused.

The answer to your question is simple and no confusion is necessary.
The app shows how high the drone is relative to where you launched.
The drone has no way to tell how far it is above the ground below it (except when very close).
.

 

[MS Coast]

That is my understanding as well. But people have commented to the contrary. I seem to have heard two different answers to my question already. I'm confused.

Your understanding is correct. This has been discussed many times on the forum in the past couple of years. The altitude limitation is 400' AGL, above ground level. It applies at the location of the drone. Takeoff location has no bearing.

 

[cheddar-man]

"Meaning if I take off from a hill on my property, and then fly up to 350', when the drone gets to a valley on my property, if that valley were more than 50', would I now be in violation of the recreational fliers rules?"

Correct! You must never be more than 400' above the ground you are flying over!

 

[cheddar-man]

Are not the flight parameters at time to taking not stored in every photo/video as Exif data, like from a DSLR camera?

 

[Meta4]

Are not the flight parameters at time to taking not stored in every photo/video as Exif data, like from a DSLR camera?

Yes ... but knowing he relative height, without knowing where the launch point was, doesn't tell you much.
But no-one is looking that hard for minor infringements anyway.

 

[B52-D]

This may help.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

The rules are not interpreted that narrowly here. You can fly up and over the cliff face without concern.

If I am correct in saying that it would be illegal for a drone to be made to fly up such a 500ft cliff then the law is the law, you break them at your peril.
Yes indeed you maybe correct in that, in a 'detected' 'uneventful' flight, it may rarely or never be enforced or penalised and maybe even so even if an FAA official was stood beside the pilot......but.....would you care to bet that if anything went wrong and the FAA became involved in an investigation it would count against the drone pilot? I would.
It's the same with VLOS.

 

[dronerdave]

If I am correct in saying that it would be illegal for a drone to be made to fly up such a 500ft cliff then the law is the law, you break them at your peril.
Yes indeed you maybe correct in that, in a 'detected' 'uneventful' flight, it may rarely or never be enforced or penalised and maybe even so even if an FAA official was stood beside the pilot......but.....would you care to bet that if anything went wrong and the FAA became involved in an investigation it would count against the drone pilot? I wouldn't.
It's the same with VLOS.

I would think if you caused an bad incident of some type where the FAA became involved, you'd probably be way better off if you were flying in compliance of the law. JMO

 

[BigAl07]

The rules are not interpreted that narrowly here. You can fly up and over the cliff face without concern.

That sort of unintended flaw in a complex regulatory scheme occurs all the time. It's obviously NOT what the regulators intended. This is why we have judges, if any LEO were stupid enough to nitpick like that.

Absolutely BS! The laws are interpreted very narrowing but unless there is an incident you're not going to see any type of "attention" from enforcement. They don't have the resources (nor the desire) to scroll through every flight from every operator in the US of A. When is the last time you even saw someone from the FAA randomly checking in on a UAS flight?

But rest assured, if there is an incident and you're not 100% in compliance with the FAR's you're going to be held fully accountable as such. To even suggest otherwise is negligent and reckless advice to say the least. Downplaying the Federal Regulations is doing a huge DISSERVICE to our community. HUGE DISSERVICE!!