Here we go Remote ID Cost

[dirkclod]

Ok now if you guys want to continue you will stay civil.
And yes @UAS_Dude I will hold you to that. I’m not like
DoomMeister I’m more like the Grinch . I’ll not take the time to clean this I will just close
it or the poster so guys you keep that in consideration when you post.

 

[DoomMeister]

The FAA is going to implement this thing and they certainly don't have to justify anything to you or anyone else for that matter, except the elected politicians who will sign off on the proposal. You had your chance to make your case during the consultation phase but, commiserations dude, it's too late now. Maybe you did submit a proposal. How did that work out for you?

That is just the rub. Comments from anyone that opposed or suggested changes to the proposed plan were nothing more than fodder for the comedians that sat on the committee that came up with the proposal. The only people that stand to gain from this are the large corporations that comprised the council, the future USS’es that will receive money from those that can still afford to fly their drones, and the few that will be paid by the corporations taking over the low altitude airspace. Of course we can’t forget the politicians, bureaucrats, and lobbyists that have already seen the “green” side of this.

I actually have no problem with outfitting sUAS craft with a means of ATC knowing where it is flying and its telemetry, but having that data available for every person to access with their cell phone is just stupid. If local law enforcement needs data on a particular craft then they should have LE access to the data that ATC has.

 

[Cymru]

I actually have no problem with outfitting sUAS craft with a means of ATC knowing where it is flying and its telemetry, but having that data available for every person to access with their cell phone is just stupid. If local law enforcement needs data on a particular craft then they should have LE access to the data that ATC has.

Why are you demanding UAS remains non-public but all manned flights remain public? Theres a contradiction there surely.

 

[DoomMeister]

Manned flights cannot be reached by some wacko with an absurd notion that they should not be flying. The pilot is in the aircraft and inaccessible while the flight is taking place. That is not the case with a sUAS pilot who is on the ground and cannot safely fly the aircraft and fend off or field questions from some person that has no right to interfere with their mission.

If RID is enacted as it stands (and you being in the UK have no interest in it anymore than I have in determining how things are run there) then it should also include provisions that anyone interfering with the pilot while the aircraft is aloft be considered a hijacker and face a fine and/or imprisonment just like with a manned flight.

 

[Cymru]

Manned flights cannot be reached by some wacko with an absurd notion that they should not be flying. The pilot is in the aircraft and inaccessible while the flight is taking place. That is not the case with a sUAS pilot who is on the ground and cannot safely fly the aircraft and fend off or field questions from some person that has no right to interfere with their mission.

If RID is enacted as it stands (and you being in the UK have no interest in it anymore than I have in determining how things are run there) then it should also include provisions that anyone interfering with the pilot while the aircraft is aloft be considered a hijacker and face a fine and/or imprisonment just like with a manned flight.

They have no idea where the operator is from tracking.
"No right to interfere with their mission", "safely fly the aircraft" is ridiculous. This isnt some top secret saving the world thing or one that requires any training or ability.
Its a person stood around playing with an RC toy - no different to an RC car or boat or even just kicking a ball around. If you don't want to talk to someone just tell them so. If they commit an offence, contact the proper authorities.
Its no different to someone asking a question to a person painting a fence and about as dangerous.

Its a public place, people can do what they want. If harassment is happening there are plenty of existing laws about that.
Nobody in a public place has a given right to not have other members of the public around them or daring to talk to them. Its a public place and by definition can be used by the public.

Most countries guidelines for the UAS operator is to be as conspicuous as possible to reduce privacy issues. Its a legal requirement in many of them undertaking any commercial flights.

Given that every single DJI drone *already* broadcasts that information to anything within radio reception range, if anyone wanted to hunt down drone fliers even now they could. Its trivial to decode that off the data stream and can be done for about $50 of hardware.

interfering with the pilot while the aircraft is aloft be considered a hijacker and face a fine and/or imprisonment just like with a manned flight.

Is so utterly ridiculous its hard to even find words to express. You're not single handedly flying a fighter jet at night through hostile territory at low level where every distraction could cause disaster.
You're operating a toy RC helicopter in conditions as which if you get distracted you just let go of the sticks and it stops. Or if concentrating just politely say "Sorry, im a little busy, i'll speak to you in a minute".
If an operator really is in danger of disaster and cant handle the task loading of a person talking to them they probably shouldnt be operator a UAS at all under any conditions.

This attitude that flying a drone is a vitally important mission that is so difficult it could spell imminent disaster if someone so much as speaks to the person and making talking to someone the same as hijacking is utterly utterly ridiculous.

And yes im in the UK and its completely relevant given EASA and most places worldwide are looking at technologies for implementing remote ID systems. Most likely it'll be a shared standard across many countries so everyone is going to be affected.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Why is the onus on me? I'm actually happy with the Remote ID proposal as it currently stands and I'm sure that I enjoy the company of many others who also understand and appreciate the need for RID. I trust the FAA to do the right thing.

The FAA is going to implement this thing and they certainly don't have to justify anything to you or anyone else for that matter, except the elected politicians who will sign off on the proposal. You had your chance to make your case during the consultation phase but, commiserations dude, it's too late now. Maybe you did submit a proposal. How did that work out for you?

You can keep on wasting energy railing against the atrocious waste of taxpayer money blah blah - on unproven blah - demonstrate the real, not speculative, evidence blah. If you think that making noise will actually achieve anything that makes any substantial difference then go nuts, Enjoy yourself. But I gotta tell ya - you won't be winning a literary award any time soon.

Finally, and I'm sure the mods will sigh with relief, I will not post any more content on this thread. 2edgesword can have his all-important last word and that will hopefully wrap it up and put it to bed.

Wow, you have a totally mixed up understanding of how our system of government is structured and is suppose to work.

Don't try to make this personal. The onus is on those that are going to be spending the money and putting limitations on individual freedom to show why spending that money and limiting personal freedom is justified. This isn't China or Russia. I'm asking the same questions tens of thousands of other drone pilots are asking. These are questions that should be asked. The answers should come in the form of hard facts about the who, what, where and why not speculations about "what if's". Where is the historical data regarding safety and a solid, viable plan for how and where the skies are going to be choke full of drones delivering packages at some point in the future? Yes, if you're going to spend a billion dollars and burden users with additional cost and regulations the onus is on those proposing this idea to demonstrate a viable need.

You aggressive support this plan but don't have a clue as to the numbers, geography, timeframe or logistics of how this system is going to operate. All you have are speculations and dreams of drones filling the skies delivering packages dropped on every doorstep in America. If you can't do better than that let's put the money elsewhere where real safety issues are costing lives and causing millions of dollars in damage each year.

 

[DoomMeister]

They have no idea where the operator is from tracking.
"No right to interfere with their mission", "safely fly the aircraft" is ridiculous. This isnt some top secret saving the world thing or one that requires any training or ability.
Its a person stood around playing with an RC toy - no different to an RC car or boat or even just kicking a ball around. If you don't want to talk to someone just tell them so. If they commit an offence, contact the proper authorities.
Its no different to someone asking a question to a person painting a fence and about as dangerous.

Its a public place, people can do what they want. If harassment is happening there are plenty of existing laws about that.
Nobody in a public place has a given right to not have other members of the public around them or daring to talk to them. Its a public place and by definition can be used by the public.

Most countries guidelines for the UAS operator is to be as conspicuous as possible to reduce privacy issues. Its a legal requirement in many of them undertaking any commercial flights.

Given that every single DJI drone *already* broadcasts that information to anything within radio reception range, if anyone wanted to hunt down drone fliers even now they could. Its trivial to decode that off the data stream and can be done for about $50 of hardware.



Is so utterly ridiculous its hard to even find words to express. You're not single handedly flying a fighter jet at night through hostile territory at low level where every distraction could cause disaster.
You're operating a toy RC helicopter in conditions as which if you get distracted you just let go of the sticks and it stops. Or if concentrating just politely say "Sorry, im a little busy, i'll speak to you in a minute".
If an operator really is in danger of disaster and cant handle the task loading of a person talking to them they probably shouldnt be operator a UAS at all under any conditions.

This attitude that flying a drone is a vitally important mission that is so difficult it could spell imminent disaster if someone so much as speaks to the person and making talking to someone the same as hijacking is utterly utterly ridiculous.

And yes im in the UK and its completely relevant given EASA and most places worldwide are looking at technologies for implementing remote ID systems. Most likely it'll be a shared standard across many countries so everyone is going to be affected.

Okay so me flying my drone is equivalent to using an RC car or boat? Then why do I need RID on my drone? I never said I was flying a fighter jet and have no idea why you would equate my statement with anything even remotely close to that.

You are the one that keeps saying consumer drones need to be regulated like manned aircraft, so in that same ilk, the pilots of them should be given the same rights to be left alone while operating their aircraft. You stress safety, but stand one of the primary safety issues right on its head by saying the drone operator is same as an RC car operator. You are grossly wrong in that regard! An RC will remain where it is when throttle is removed. An sUAS without GPS stabilization will drift with the wind and must be under control of the pilot to keep it in range of the controller.

Your arguments are typical of deep pockets and as has been stated by many other than myself, that this is all about big business using big money to take over low altitude airspace. You can jabber all you want that isn’t the case, but every time you respond here you reinforce that mantra.

I care about the recreational pilot across the pond as much as those here in the US, but I don’t go around forcing my opinion about the regulations there. I am not a citizen affected by those decisions and no rights to elect those that could. I would appreciate you keeping your opinions on your own soil, because I really don’t give a tinker’s darn what you think about airspace regulations here.

Another point I need to bring to your attention is that the next time you belittle me or another member of this forum you will no longer be a part of it. You need to read the Community Rules and abide by them.

 

[Cymru]

I never said I was flying a fighter jet and have no idea why you would equate my statement with anything even remotely close to that.

You are the one that keeps saying consumer drones need to be regulated like manned aircraft, so in that same ilk, the pilots of them should be given the same rights to be left alone while operating their aircraft. You stress safety, but stand one of the primary safety issues right on its head by saying the drone operator is same as an RC car operator. You are grossly wrong in that regard! An RC will remain where it is when throttle is removed. An sUAS without GPS stabilization will drift with the wind and must be under control of the pilot to keep it in range of the controller.

Your arguments are typical of deep pockets and as has been stated by many other than myself, that this is all about big business using big money to take over low altitude airspace. You can jabber all you want that isn’t the case, but every time you respond here you reinforce that mantra.

I care about the recreational pilot across the pond as much as those here in the US, but I don’t go around forcing my opinion about the regulations there. I am not a citizen affected by those decisions and no rights to elect those that could. I would appreciate you keeping your opinions on your own soil, because I really don’t give a tinker’s darn what you think about airspace regulations here.

Another point I need to bring to your attention is that the next time you belittle me or another member of this forum you will no longer be a part of it. You need to read the Community Rules and abide by them.

Okay so me flying my drone is equivalent to using an RC car or boat? Then why do I need RID on my drone?

Because a car or boat isnt going to cause a very real safety hazard (and be totally invisible) to an aircraft. Why would you NOT want your drone to be as conspicuous as possible to ATC and aircraft? It protects them AND protects the drone.

the pilots of them should be given the same rights to be left alone while operating their aircraft

You're making this sound like an episode of Top Gun. Do you also support a ban on talking to taxi or bus drivers? Or the driver of a car?

If you dont want to talk to someone while playing with the drone just tell them that. Its not hard.

An sUAS without GPS stabilization will drift with the wind and must be under control of the pilot to keep it in range of the controller.

If you're unable to utter the sentence "Sorry, im a little busy to talk" without instantly crashing in a ball of flame you're unsuited to be operating a drone at all.

f, that this is all about big business using big money to take over low altitude airspace.

Rubbish. What proof do you have its all about taking over airspace? What documents? What studies?

. I would appreciate you keeping your opinions on your own soil, because I really don’t give a tinker’s darn what you think about airspace regulations here.

Someone really is a bit snowflakey. This is a public forum with global membership. For reasons already outlined RID affects just about everyone worldwide.

Another point I need to bring to your attention is that the next time you belittle me or another member of this forum you will no longer be a part of it.

Oh look, someone called you out, challenged your points with actual facts and you really dislike it. Scared to debate actual factual points? You seem to be the one going all xenophobic telling people to stay out because they don't live there.

"I disagree therefore i will ban them" is the lowest form of internet debate in existence.

Why not explain to people why its so difficult to say "Sorry, im a bit busy" in response to someone talking to you and why the drone is always flown seconds from disaster?
Or maybe explain why its a bad idea to have a drone as visible to ATC and other airspace users as possible to avoid conflict?

 

[dirkclod]

Ok I’ve read about all of you I am going to. Best you back off
before I back you off. I would not even reply in this anymore.
Got a issue with that then message me.

 

[DoomMeister]

Because a car or boat isnt going to cause a very real safety hazard (and be totally invisible) to an aircraft. Why would you NOT want your drone to be as conspicuous as possible to ATC and aircraft? It protects them AND protects the drone.



You're making this sound like an episode of Top Gun. Do you also support a ban on talking to taxi or bus drivers? Or the driver of a car?

If you dont want to talk to someone while playing with the drone just tell them that. Its not hard.



If you're unable to utter the sentence "Sorry, im a little busy to talk" without instantly crashing in a ball of flame you're unsuited to be operating a drone at all.



Rubbish. What proof do you have its all about taking over airspace? What documents? What studies?



Someone really is a bit snowflakey. This is a public forum with global membership. For reasons already outlined RID affects just about everyone worldwide.



Oh look, someone called you out, challenged your points with actual facts and you really dislike it. Scared to debate actual factual points? You seem to be the one going all xenophobic telling people to stay out because they don't live there.

"I disagree therefore i will ban them" is the lowest form of internet debate in existence.

Why not explain to people why its so difficult to say "Sorry, im a bit busy" in response to someone talking to you and why the drone is always flown seconds from disaster?
Or maybe explain why its a bad idea to have a drone as visible to ATC and other airspace users as possible to avoid conflict?

I really don’t understand your insistence that I am playing when flying my drone. Just because I enjoy flying it doesn’t mean I am not serious and am lackadaisical while flying.

I really think you should place me on ignore so you don’t have to read my “ridiculous comments”. If I was a regular member you would already be on my ignore list. Unfortunately I have to keep an eye on embers like you that think anyone that doesn’t agree with them is an idiot.

My parents kept saying something about mirrors when I was growing up…

 

[Thomas B]

This thread has become something between useless and comedic.... can we get back to remote ID cost discussion?

 

[Deleted member 93449]

This thread has become something between useless and comedic.... can we get back to remote ID cost discussion?

At this point the lowest estimate is from the FAA at about $500 million over ten years. Just about every other estimate I’ve seen is over a billion. I really don’t think anyone knows the cost since there is only speculative answers on exactly what equipment will be required by users, what interface will be used to communicate data and who/what/where and how that data is to be stored and disseminated. I’m not sure if anything close to a hard number of users and geographic coverage has been established encompassing the next 10-20 years. If someone knows where this type of information can be found and how it was compiled I’d be interested in seeing it.

 

[dirkclod]

. This is a public forum with global membership.

After rereading all this let me just clarify something. Yes this is a worldwide forum But it is not a Public One . It is a private forum
Read All the guideline page and you will see. It is a privilege for anyone to be a member but if you do not follow our guidelines that can be taken away from anyone.
Just so you know. ?