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Legality in Texas?

Here is an outstanding lengthy discussion on the topic.

I’ve read that, and many other, discussions on the topic here and on PP and other forums. The truth is that the law is not entirely clear in the US, as is the case with many other areas of the law, which is due to the nature of federal and state/local government laws, case/common law, and the distinction between civil and criminal law. What we do know is that as far as the federal government is concerned, they are the sole arbiter of airspace, and contrary to what someone with the FAA apparently told you, there is no “rule” about flying over private property, aside from general rules about flying safely and complying with applicable regs, and of course TFRs and other restrictions.

That said, it is probably more complicated than that. I say probably because it will take a court case, probably many, to determine the extent to which federal law preempts (takes precedent over) state or local laws. In the days when the only issue was a plane flying thousands of feet overhead, it wasn’t much of a problem, and even when they were flying lower, as on approach/landing, the courts resolved the issues long ago (for example, the Causby case, or the lawsuits by people who bought a house next to an airport and then complained).

My guess (and that’s all it is, but mildly educated) is that in most cases, the courts will say federal law wins out. That’s the general Constitutional principle. But in areas of law where the federal government is deemed not to have the power to control, then it becomes more questionable. If someone flies a foot from my bedroom window regularly, I might legitimately claim there’s a nuisance (but my window is clear, so it’s not THAT private, which is an argument the other way - expectation of privacy. If the government spots me running a meth lab from a drone through an open window, it’s probably not a 4th Amendment violation unless the drone blows my curtains open). Or if someone hovers their loud Mavic Air (I fly a loud Mavic Air) 10 feet over my back yard party, I might reasonably argue it’s a nuisance, which is a state law civil claim.

I’d also guess that the courts will eventually say that states can’t criminally prosecute drone pilots for violation of a state airspace law (keeping in mind they are free to regulate takeoffs and landings). But I also would bet courts will allow state and local governments to pass very limited ordinances prohibiting the sort of things I mentioned above (looking in my window from a foot away or annoying my party guests), and allow for civil nuisance claims to proceed, keeping in mind that nuisance claims have a fairly high evidentiary burden of proof.

Who knows? The practical takeaway for me is that I am not in the least bit worried about getting arrested for flying a drone in violation of a local law or ordinance that I know is extremely unlikely to be enforceable. There is an ordinance where I usually fly that even elected officials have admitted they won’t enforce, as my state has a preemption statute that prohibits such ordinances, so I’m lucky in that regard, but criminal prosecutions are going to be very hard to win if the right arguments are made. That said, the other takeaway is not to fly like a jerk, and be respectful. I live in a very densely populated area, and when I fly at home, I always immediately go up to 150 or 200 feet (about the only time I use sport mode these days) so as not to annoy any neighbors, though it’s never been an issue. The one time a law enforcement officer approached me at a local park, he asked me if I had a “license” and I told him I did, but that it wasn’t required, and we had a nice discussion about it and talked about the laws (he let me keep flying for a few minutes but said he wanted to talk when I was done). I ended up giving him my business card and he called me months later when he had questions about what drone he should buy and whether he should get a Part 107 certificate.

Now, back to the original question: I love Texas, have visited many times, and my wife was born and raised there. But notwithstanding what I said above, I’d be extra careful there.
 
So he did share the email with me from the FAA inspector. There were some other issues with the flight that the inspector cited (alleged lack of VLOS and flight over moving vehicles), but I can confirm the inspector did write the following:

§107.23 Hazardous operation.
No person may:
(a) Operate a small unmanned aircraft system in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another; or
(b) Allow an object to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that creates an undue hazard to persons or property.

In this case you were shown to be flying your drone over houses and apartments. This is a hazard to property.

This is a bizarre interpretation by the FAA inspector without more context, but there was no further elaboration on that point. The video itself was also shared with me and I didn't see any obvious risk to nearby buildings by the flight either. The drone was operating at a slow speed and maintained a normal distance above or to the side of any nearby structures.

However, "Flip" made it clear to me that he has no interest in fighting with the FAA or risking fines. The case is apparently closed and that's how "Flip" prefers it.
 
Yes. I would prefer that this issue go away. I now regret saying anything about it.

My only point was that if the FAA wants to, they can use this catch all rule to put the screws to you, if they see fit.
 
First contact was merely an "Educational Interaction" so it's now just "ink on paper" and nothing more. This is SOP for FAA so long as an incident or nothing major has happened.

Flip keep in mind that you most likely have someone local to you who logged an Anonymous Report to the FAA and they followed up and did an investigation.
 
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The social media video was logged anonymously which means the report lacks credibility. The inspector told me that the report was anonymous from the FAA website and his report cited my facebook page. In the last 6 months, I have shared dozens of videos that aren't even mine and am completely guessing what the inspector actually saw. As a matter of fact, the anonymous reporting form on the FAA website clearly states the following. I can tell you this much, I won't be sharing anyone else's videos or any video of my own that has any possible avenue of being reported or misconstrued as going against VLOS or any other FAA regulation again. That's a promise.


1566927412038.png
 
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Also, folks on this site's "leader board" better watch their six. Just sayin.
 
Yes. I would prefer that this issue go away. I now regret saying anything about it.

My only point was that if the FAA wants to, they can use this catch all rule to put the screws to you, if they see fit.


@Filipok Thank you for sharing your experience and thankfully it was just educational.

It's been known for a long time that various ABC entities do "visit" our forums from time to time. What is garnered from these visits is a mystery but most of the time nothing comes of it more than an initial contact and educational moment. To date I don't know of any type of enforcement that has come from any of the Pilot's Forums.
 
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It's been known for a long time that various ABC entities do "visit" our forums from time to time.

Personally, I think they'd be mostly impressed with this site, and other (x)Pilot associate forums.

If they go and trawl through some of the FaceAche drone groups, well, let's just say I was a member of one for a while (the rest were just hostile and totally lawless as far as drone rules go), but even that good one degenerated in short time when a handful of people that fly stupid places / times with no care for others or the hobby, joined up.
I left FailBook after a brief year of so, it can be a useful tool for family contact etc, but it is a cesspit on so many (too many) other levels.
 
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Personally, I think they'd be mostly impressed with this site, and other (x)Pilot associate forums.

If they go and trawl through some of the FaceAche drone groups, well, let's just say I was a member of one for a while (the rest were just hostile and totally lawless as far as drone rules go), but even that good one degenerated in short time when a handful of people that fly stupid places / times with no care for others or the hobby, joined up.
I left FailBook after a brief year of so, it can be a useful tool for family contact etc, but it is a cesspit on so many (too many) other levels.

Well said. Along with the frustrating propeller headed snark, very little constructive information comes out of those groups. There is however, one small mod group that I've found incredibly valuable.
 
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So I understand the FAA rules, but I think Texas has a rule along the lines of "surveillance" or some such, am I good taking video flying around my neighborhood, over parks (but not taking off from them), and lakes, and generally any pretty landscape that is not privately owned, a prison, industrial site etc that are obviously off limits

Think the law currently is "Sec. 423.003"
Laws: GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 423. USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT

What has me concerned is the broad definition of surveillance, I mean, if some one walks down the side walk into the camera did I commit a crime?

Edit: The law very much reads like "it's legal for me, but not for you"


Note: Had police called on my first flight in my neighborhood with my mavik 2 zoom, did not talk to them as they didn't know who was flying, but I dont think I did anything wrong

For Your info, its totally legal to take off and fly from any parks in Texas owned by cities and counties per State law. All zoning laws restricting flying from such became null and void in Sept 2017. Refer to the House Bill 1643
 
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For Your info, its totally legal to take off and fly from any parks in Texas owned by cities and counties per State law. All zoning laws restricting flying from such became null and void in Sept 2017. Refer to the House Bill 1643

Wow.. that's great. Thanks for the information.
 
To the OP:
I'm in the greater Austin, Texas area and haven't had any issues flying. Something to note though based on your comment, you could be 200% legal and someone will still call. I actually had someone from a parks department come tell me I couldn't fly in one area because of the non-towered recreational airport however I had already got permission to fly from them. I would say as long as you're just flying by and not hovering over someone's house you should be fine from someone calling on you.... for the most part.. if you're worried about some surveillance law kicking in. Most people won't call if it zooms by but if there here it for several minutes by their house. There will always be the "little old lady" that sits on her porch and complains the kids are riding their bikes to loud in the street. :)
 
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So I understand the FAA rules, but I think Texas has a rule along the lines of "surveillance" or some such, am I good taking video flying around my neighborhood, over parks (but not taking off from them), and lakes, and generally any pretty landscape that is not privately owned, a prison, industrial site etc that are obviously off limits

Think the law currently is "Sec. 423.003"
Laws: GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 423. USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT

What has me concerned is the broad definition of surveillance, I mean, if some one walks down the side walk into the camera did I commit a crime?

Edit: The law very much reads like "it's legal for me, but not for you"


Note: Had police called on my first flight in my neighborhood with my mavik 2 zoom, did not talk to them as they didn't know who was flying, but I dont think I did anything wrong
Back to OP's post: Here is the reg for Texas: GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 423. USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT

If you fly in Texas read it; it is very all-encomassing and confusing as heck; I have read it many times and basically you can't take pics unless employed by real estate or infrastrcuture or gov officials unless you have owner's permission; even on public lands there are goofy regs; It's a joke; I live here and it's very confusing-grab some popcorn and read it!
 
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Yeah, I think it was more of someone calling the police because they are paranoid more so than anything that occurs usually. I've flown a lot more times since without having the police called on me so common sense hope is restored
 
I've had the police called on (I'm pretty sure of it). They came and sat in their car about 100 ft away while I was flying. He never did approach me. Apparently he was satisfied that I wasn't doing anything wrong and drove off.
 
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Sometimes it is interesting to see your own neighborhood in a different perspective. And it's different when photos or video or recent rather than the satellite images that everyone can access. No, I don't hover over someone's pool or try to look in through windows but seeing houses or even the rails for that matter are interesting from above. Now there are times I do use the drone for my dog rescue work, that's actually the reason I purchased a drone in the first place. I have a friend with a tracking dog that helps me when needed & another rescuer who also has a drone. But he's not that reliable, sometimes you need to try to locate a missing or stray asap & waiting for hours won't do.
Point is, some people just need not be so paranoid about everything. Some just need to exercise commonsense. And if you really want to see paranoid individuals with little to no commonsense, get the Ring app.
If you were low enough to be heard / noticed by neighbours, then it might be a good idea in future to take off and go high straight away, say at least 50m, then fly out.
Don't use sports mode, keep stick inputs 'quiet' and most wouldn't know it was there.

As long as you are flying legally to FAA rules and local laws (using city land) then you should be ok to talk to the Police.
Know your rights and legal standing, the Police might well just go and tell the complainant that the operator is withing guidelines and not spying.
If it's just one person complaining, that could resolve your issue.

That said, it shouldn't be long, you simply won't WANT to fly around the 'burbs, but more remote places with the landscapes etc drone fliers usually seek.
 
Here's how that secton of the law reads:
Sec. 423.003. OFFENSE: ILLEGAL USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT TO CAPTURE IMAGE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person uses an unmanned aircraft to capture an image of an individual or privately owned real property in this state with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image.

Are you capturing images of individuals or property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image?









Here's an area just down the road from where I lived in Ohio. It's a Satellite image.
Stores, homes, parks & red lights are always filming. From what I understand, when you're outside you no longer have an expectation of privacy. You can capture video and/or photograph any person or persons you care to. You can't look through a window of a private dwelling & do the same.20190929_223803.jpeg
 

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Well true, someone can accuse anyone of anything, even homicide. But without corpus delecti you can't be prosecuted. However being "innocent until being proven guilty" can be costly, and not just financially. These are the problems of living in such a litigious society.
Anyone could accuse you of anything anytime.
But it means nothing unless the accusation can be proved.
 
Then those helicopters & planes best find another route
Please do, because I'm very curious what this guy supposedly told you. I hold a Part 107 certificate, among other FAA certificates, and consider myself fairly knowledgeable about FAA regulations. I've never seen any regulation that is a blanket prohibition for flying over private property.

If this Inspector really is telling people they can't fly over private property, then we need to take this up with the FAA General Counsel's office, as that is contrary to any published federal regulation.
 
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...and be careful posting Virtual Litchi Mission animations of private property in Texas as well, some of my relatives asked me why I didn't let them know I was visiting when they saw an animation I made of a virtual flight around their house! ?
 
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