Let's call the RAF !

[AeroJ]

Just wondering for all you UK flyers here - has any of you ever contacted the RAF Safety Centre (0800 515544) to notify them about your impending UAV flights in areas where low flying stuff has been known to operate ? If so, I have some questions about how I should be providing exactly the sort of information they need, and keeping to a minimum any they don't...

1. Do you call them a few days in advance of the planned flight, knowing full well all sorts of factors could lead you to cancel or postpone on the day... or should we call them on the day of the flight, or immediately before we leave for it, when of course they have the least possible opportunity to alter their plans (if that was ever applicable) ?

2. What sort of format are they expecting for the location data ? I suspect telling them 'I'm going flying up Stoner Hill in Rogate, Hampshire tomorrow' isn't going to be an accurate enough descriptor of where I will be flying ! Do I have to give them actual take-off coordinates, or is a general area enough, and if so what format should the coordinates be in, and how do I get that out of Google maps ?! Just wondering what is the correct etiquette for defining location and range in a professional way really...

My guess for that would be to give them this sort of format (for example):

51°02'22.5"N 0°56'26.6"W​

but how would I read that out over the phone in a way that made sense (don't wanna sound a complete idiot on phone to them) ?! Would that be '51 degrees 2 ft 22.5 inches North / 0 degrees, 56 ft, 26.6 inches West' ? And what sort of possible range data should I give them and in what format ?

3. Has anyone ever called them and been told their plans can be altered to account for us, or do they merely enter it into their national / localised conflict alert system ?

Thanks

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Good question.

 

[Meta4]

what format should the coordinates be in, and how do I get that out of Google maps ?

You read it straight from here:

51°02'22.5"N 0°56'26.6"W​

but how would I read that out over the phone in a way that made sense (don't wanna sound a complete idiot on phone to them) ?! Would that be '51 degrees 2 ft 22.5 inches North / 0 degrees, 56 ft, 26.6 inches West' ?

If you did that, you'd be laughed at.
There is no such thing as Degrees Feet & Inches.
It's Degrees Minutes & Seconds.

But you'd make it a lot simpler for everyone if you configured Google Earth to show the location in Degrees & Decimal Degrees.
That would make your point 52.039583° 0.939611°.

 

[AeroJ]

You read it straight from here:

If you did that, you'd be laughed at.
There is no such thing as Degrees Feet & Inches.
It's Degrees Minutes & Seconds.

But you'd make it a lot simpler for everyone if you configured Google Earth to show the location in Degrees & Decimal Degrees.
That would make your point 52.039583° 0.939611°.

Excellent - this is exactly why I asked ! Thank you for letting me avoid 'numpty laughs'

 

[AeroJ]

That would make your point 52.039583° 0.939611°.

Will they think I am a tosser if I say 'niner' instead of the nines ?!

 

[DougMcC]

It is usually reported as degrees, minutes and seconds. Never feet and inches. Controllers understand that lingo

 

[AeroJ]

It is usually reported as degrees, minutes and seconds.

Would anyone mind spending 2 minutes to explain to Mr Thicky over here what that actually means ?! How do minutes and seconds relate to a position ? Kinda embarrassed that I don't know this after about 10 years in the hobby ! I'd look myself if I only knew what keywords are gonna find me exactly the right info...

 

[Meta4]

Would anyone mind spending 2 minutes to explain to Mr Thicky over here what that actually means ?! How do minutes and seconds relate to a position ? Kinda embarrassed that I don't know this after about 10 years in the hobby ! I'd look myself if I only knew what keywords are gonna find me exactly the right info...

Try this:

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Using Decimal degrees is a lot simpler and less confusing than Deg .. Min .. Sec
Very few people use Deg .. Min .. Sec these days.
But if you wanted to know what that's about 1 degree = 60 minutes and 1 minute = 60 seconds

 

[Mich Tiger 31]

As you know, the Earth is a sphere. This sphere is divided into segments so that it can be represented on a flat map. So you get grids. Each degree north or south is equal to 60 nautical miles. So every minute is 1 nautical mile because there are 60 minutes in 1 degree and every second is 100 feet because one nautical mile is equal to 6000 feet. At the equator it is the same principle for east and west, but towards the poles this similarity does not apply.

 

[KJC Imaging]

Just wondering for all you UK flyers here - has any of you ever contacted the RAF Safety Centre (0800 515544) to notify them about your impending UAV flights in areas where low flying stuff has been known to operate ? If so, I have some questions about how I should be providing exactly the sort of information they need, and keeping to a minimum any they don't...

1. Do you call them a few days in advance of the planned flight, knowing full well all sorts of factors could lead you to cancel or postpone on the day... or should we call them on the day of the flight, or immediately before we leave for it, when of course they have the least possible opportunity to alter their plans (if that was ever applicable) ?

2. What sort of format are they expecting for the location data ? I suspect telling them 'I'm going flying up Stoner Hill in Rogate, Hampshire tomorrow' isn't going to be an accurate enough descriptor of where I will be flying ! Do I have to give them actual take-off coordinates, or is a general area enough, and if so what format should the coordinates be in, and how do I get that out of Google maps ?! Just wondering what is the correct etiquette for defining location and range in a professional way really...

My guess for that would be to give them this sort of format (for example):

51°02'22.5"N 0°56'26.6"W​

but how would I read that out over the phone in a way that made sense (don't wanna sound a complete idiot on phone to them) ?! Would that be '51 degrees 2 ft 22.5 inches North / 0 degrees, 56 ft, 26.6 inches West' ? And what sort of possible range data should I give them and in what format ?

3. Has anyone ever called them and been told their plans can be altered to account for us, or do they merely enter it into their national / localised conflict alert system ?

Thanks

Things might have changed since I was flying around the UK at low level in a Hawk and Jaguar, but my guess is that your information is not propagated to operators. I hope I'm wrong, but unless your data finds its way into the NOTAM database, it won't be seen.

 

[KJC Imaging]

Would anyone mind spending 2 minutes to explain to Mr Thicky over here what that actually means ?! How do minutes and seconds relate to a position ? Kinda embarrassed that I don't know this after about 10 years in the hobby ! I'd look myself if I only knew what keywords are gonna find me exactly the right info...

One way to describe a location on the earth is using latitude and longitude. Lines of longitude such as the Greenwich meridian are imaginary circles around the globe that go through the poles. Lines of latitude such as the equator are parallel lines that would look like circles of different sizes if viewed from space waaay above the north or south pole. The lines of longitude are separated by degrees, 360 degrees around the globe. The Greenwich meridian is zero degrees longitude, then you go East or West of Greenwich until you're on the other side of the globe at -180 degrees East or West. The equator is zero latitude, measured as an angle in degrees from the center of the earth, so as you go North you find England at around 52 degrees North, and the North Pole is at 90 degrees North. The South pole is at 90 degrees South.

As it takes the earth 24 hours to revolve, 360/24 is 15, so we find the time zones spaced out along lines of longitude at roughly 15 degrees per hour all the way round the globe, with slight variations to account for the positions of countries, politics etc.

Degrees of longitude are split into 60 minute subdivisions. Each minute of longitude is exactly a nautical mile in length. Degrees of latitude are also split into 60 minute subdivisions, but only at the equator are those 1 nautical mile long. As you go north or south those circles get smaller to those degrees get shorter. Degrees can be split again into seconds (60 seconds per degree) for more precise positioning. Seconds can also be split into tenths and hundredths of seconds for centimeter accurate positions.

Instead of splitting lat and lon into degrees minutes and seconds, it can be more convenient to simply use degrees and decimal degrees, as these are easier for computers to handle. So 20 degrees 30 minutes would be 20.5 degrees.

Any questions?

 

[Hiwayman]

I use it regularly...just supply a postcode of the site.. I was advised that pilots will give you a one mile clearance. Just call them the day before you fly.
Very helpful and a quick process.