Misleading Specs - Please help me contact DJI to request missing AEB & HDR at 48MP on the Mini 3 Pro

[AlanL]

Thanks Alan,

This is great to know.

I did not purchase the DJI Air2 and although this latest DJI offering slipped out the factory door with nearly the same specs, it doesn’t grandfather in an error or omission on the part of DJI, to accurately describe their product true capabilities and limitations.

Like you I got caught out with the specs and what I could/should expect and didn't find out exactly what the restrictions were for 48MP mode until I was already flying the Air 2 and taking images. You did get a larger sensor with the Mini 3 if that's any consolation and from images I have seen the Mini 3 handles shadows much better than the Air 2.

When I first saw some of the discussions on the Mini 3 and how DJI handled the 48MP vs. 12MP shooting modes I almost spewed my coffee on my screen since it was almost an exact rerun of what I got with the Air 2.

 

[BigAl07]

Hi Al,

One should not assume the processor is limited, especially one that can encode 150Mb/s, faster than practically any previous DJI product.

Yes, the system is low power and one has to worry about not over-heating the poor drone and processor.

I can assure you that parallel processes are not needed to perform two or three photos captures in rapid succession at 48MP at different exposures. HDR using two actual shots and merging may be significantly more difficult (albeit not impossible), as they would need sufficient memory for the merge process or have to creatively process it in small chunks, making it clunky and slow.

AEB capture is no different than a still frame single capture rapidly with different manual exposures. The process of AEB at 48MP vs single frame capture at 48MP with manual exposure changes between captures is the same, however one is automated and faster.

LOL! Well I guess you know more than the brains at DJI do about their technology and it's limitations.

I reiterate, If you wanted a Ferrari you shouldn't have bought a Subaru. You got exactly what you paid for and exactly as advertised. It's still fairly new so you could sell if with minimal losses and re-invest in the M3 system and not have to "suffer" with lack of features. . . .

 

[JoshC]

I do not believe this is true Josh.

The sensor is 48MP and it is not faking a 48MP photo with only a 12MP sensor. Yes, 4 pixels grouped in quads that are binned in HDR(HQ) video and 12MP stills. There really is information from each pixel at 48MP, however the colors will be more screwed up due to the large filters on top of the 2x2 pixel groups and possibly different ISO amplification per pixel, if used.

The current system should allow multiple exposure AEB at 48MP at a minimum. There is no magic in this other than changing the EV electronically and rapidly taking several photos, significantly faster than the user can manually change those settings currently. The system does and can support this mode. HDR would be harder, but don’t assume impossible.

There is a simple way for you to prove whether you are right or wrong, i.e. produce a comparison between standard AEB and bracketed exposures with HDR.

if you have the drone stationary (i.e. on the ground) and don't move the gimbal between exposures, you can produce bracketed exposures with HDR single shot to show if there is any visible difference from standard AEB.

 

[Johnmcl7]

Hi Al,

One should not assume the processor is limited, especially one that can encode 150Mb/s, faster than practically any previous DJI product.

Yes, the system is low power and one has to worry about not over-heating the poor drone and processor.

I can assure you that parallel processes are not needed to perform two or three photos captures in rapid succession at 48MP at different exposures. HDR using two actual shots and merging may be significantly more difficult (albeit not impossible), as they would need sufficient memory for the merge process or have to creatively process it in small chunks, making it clunky and slow.

AEB capture is no different than a still frame single capture rapidly with different manual exposures. The process of AEB at 48MP vs single frame capture at 48MP with manual exposure changes between captures is the same, however one is automated and faster.

Is the drone actually using multiple photos for HDR shots at 12MP though? One of the intended advantages of a quad bayer sensor is you can expose the pixels differently in each group to produce a 12MP image with HDR in a single shot so you don't have the problem of movement between the frames which is explained here:

Quad Bayer sensors: what they are and what they are not

Marketing departments are trying to sell you on the wrong thing - resolution isn't why these sensors are good, it's the better image processing.

www.gsmarena.com

But also the '48MP' is marketing hype and it should be treated as a 12MP sensor:

Marketing departments really want you to believe you’re getting a Hasselblad-like image sensor, but the reality is that the Quad Bayer filter is just a clever (and effective) way of getting better-quality 12MP shots.

The size of the sensor is one of the most important factors in image quality and while the Mini 3 Pro's 1/1.3in sensor is a solid improvement over the 1/2.3in or similar sized sensors used in the previous Mini drones it's still a good bit smaller than the Mavic 3's 4/3 sensor. Which is why several people have mentioned the Mavic 3 as its larger sensor isn't marketing hype and it can deliver better dynamic range and resolution.

 

[adcimagery]

The 48MP mode is not significant, to be honest. 48MP has false color issues and other artifacts that make it basically the same as 12MP, with 12MP debayered via Enhance Details in Lightroom yielding the best results of those modes.
So, if you're looking for the highest image quality, shoot a 12MP AEB set, debayer via Enhance Details, then merge to HDR: you now have the broadest dynamic range and the cleanest possible pixels, all with 1 click in the field.

 

[Brojon]

Y'all need to lighten up and/or consider his points with more seriousness.
Basically the complaint is that the specs are so poorly written as to imply functionality that simply isn't there.
People have sued and won on far flimsier cases. I would maintain that if you can't depend on the official written specs then that could be construed as deceptive marketing practices.
So everyone defecting with arguments such as "you shoulda got a M3 if that's what you wanted" are totally missing the point.
Many Chinese companies suffer from "chinglish" issues. In fact I've done work for some tech companies to change their poorly written docs into something more comprehensible.
DJI is WAY past that stage with excellently written manuals and audio visual presentations.
My conclusion is they have plenty of expertise to ensure what they write is factual.
The specs as written don't pass the "oops" test - it would seem to be deliberate marketing slight of hand - deception.

 

[JoshC]

Y'all need to lighten up and/or consider his points with more seriousness.
Basically the complaint is that the specs are so poorly written as to imply functionality that simply isn't there.
People have sued and won on far flimsier cases. I would maintain that if you can't depend on the official written specs then that could be construed as deceptive marketing practices.
So everyone defecting with arguments such as "you shoulda got a M3 if that's what you wanted" are totally missing the point.
Many Chinese companies suffer from "chinglish" issues. In fact I've done work for some tech companies to change their poorly written docs into something more comprehensible.
DJI is WAY past that stage with excellently written manuals and audio visual presentations.
My conclusion is they have plenty of expertise to ensure what they write is factual.
The specs as written don't pass the "oops" test - it would seem to be deliberate marketing slight of hand - deception.

It says very clearly in the specs:

• HDR Mode Photo: HDR supported in Single Shot mode​

I find this clear enough to understand that HDR isn't supported in AEB mode, pano mode, etc

 

[Brojon]

It says very clearly in the specs:

• HDR Mode Photo: HDR supported in Single Shot mode​

I find this clear enough to understand that HDR isn't supported in AEB mode, pano mode, etc

Consider DJI's official definition:

Single Shot​

Single-shot as the default setting is the most common way to take pictures. In this mode, when you tap the shoot/record button you take a single image.

I would argue that HDR results in a single image so where's the disparity?

 

[power64]

ini 3 is an amazing drone for its price point. If you need more, the M3 Pro may be beck

LOL! Well I guess you know more than the brains at DJI do about their technology and it's limitations.

I reiterate, If you wanted a Ferrari you shouldn't have bought a Subaru. You got exactly what you paid for and exactly as advertised. It's still fairly new so you could sell if with minimal losses and re-invest in the M3 system and not have to "suffer" with lack of features. . . .

Just because something is expensive from DJI does not mean that it is the best or will remain the best for long.

People on this forum may be old enough here to remember the DJI Ferrari called the Inspire One w/ 4K camera at $2900++ or the DJI Professional S800 and S1000 Ferrari drones with the A1 or A2 Naza system with all of the promised Zenmuse and other camera adapter upgrades and multiple years of future camera support promised? Those "Pro" systems were replaced quite rapidly with the Inspire 1 v2.0 and Inspire 2.0 and the S900 A3 controller platforms at $3k to $5k for a Pro system platform, leaving those two older Ferrari's to rot in the field with no new cameras, no new updates, nothing. What about when DJI released better specs on the cheaper Phantom 4 Pro (such as global shutter) than their more expensive Pro line drone platforms? Woops.

Then the S900 looked like it would remain the new Pro platform and did for quite some time, until DJI decided to stop sales and allow only new thermal and other Pro cameras to work with the smaller DJI Matrice 200 and then only the Matrice 210 with no backward compatability.

This disconnect between new cameras and camera mounts not supporting older platforms is where I feel DJI needs major improvement. So, unless people like throwing away their Ferrari every two years, one learns to invest lightly in DJI "Pro" Ferrari drones and camera systems that seem too good to be true and which seem to lose support or updates immediately after the next "Pro" product comes out.

 

[power64]

There is a simple way for you to prove whether you are right or wrong, i.e. produce a comparison between standard AEB and bracketed exposures with HDR.

if you have the drone stationary (i.e. on the ground) and don't move the gimbal between exposures, you can produce bracketed exposures with HDR single shot to show if there is any visible difference from standard AEB.

Hi Josh,

I don't understand what you are trying to test, but happy to do it for you if I have time. The system cannot shoot 48MP in either HDR or AEB mode. The single shot HDR is likely 48MP real-time binning to 12MP and the AEB is likely the same real-time 12MP HDR binned photos taken quite rapidly for either 3 or 5 bracketed exposures.

Perhaps you wanted to see one of the photos from the AEB set and compare it to the same exposure from HDR to determine if the camera is acting differently during AEB with less dynamic range? If so, it would be interesting to know if the capture is different.

The 48MP single mode (Non-HDR) is likely having to do post-processing to convert the 2x2 pixel single color arrays back to normal color using some de-convolution algorithm. There will likely be errors as a results, because the processor will have to guess what color or contrast occurred without enough information from nearby pixels like a normal Bayer filter pattern. In fact, if I pixel peep on some 48MP shots, there are occasionally ghost dark lines right next to vertical or horizontal objects, such as a vertical wood post from far away, making it appears like two, when there was only one.

 

[JoshC]

Hi Josh,

I don't understand what you are trying to test, but happy to do it for you if I have time. The system cannot shoot 48MP in either HDR or AEB mode. The single shot HDR is likely 48MP real-time binning to 12MP and the AEB is likely the same real-time 12MP HDR binned photos taken quite rapidly for either 3 or 5 bracketed exposures.

Perhaps you wanted to see one of the photos from the AEB set and compare it to the same exposure from HDR to determine if the camera is acting differently during AEB with less dynamic range? If so, it would be interesting to know if the capture is different.

The 48MP single mode (Non-HDR) is likely having to do post-processing to convert the 2x2 pixel single color arrays back to normal color using some de-convolution algorithm. There will likely be errors as a results, because the processor will have to guess what color or contrast occurred without enough information from nearby pixels like a normal Bayer filter pattern. In fact, if I pixel peep on some 48MP shots, there are occasionally ghost dark lines right next to vertical or horizontal objects, such as a vertical wood post from far away, making it appears like two, when there was only one.

The OP is upset that the HDR mode/48mb can't be used in AEB, I'm telling them to produce an image that proves there would be an advantage

 

[monteolsen1]

The response below from DJI support. It would have been so lovely if this info were in the specs prior to purchase…

Note the "At present..." that quite often is Geek speak for it's coming. I know it was when I worked in documentation.

 

[Drones.n.Pixels]

The key phrases here are "effective pixels" and "single shot".
Effective pixels are NOT single shot pixels, because the debayering mentioned before.
But to your point - the spec could be more clear.

 

[FlySkyJumper]

www.dji.com

Their website is also on the manual, inside your drone.

Their phone number is also in the manual.

 

[FlySkyJumper]

Mate, i told you that you wouldnt get support on this.
If, as you say, you have been with DJI for so long, and have nearly every drone they have produced, you should know better.
I can understand a newbie maybe being caught out by not really knowing what they are getting.
But you are an experience drone operator and photographer. You bought something with no research you are not happy with so decided to join this forum to find others to support your dissatisfaction.
Sorry man, its all on you. Thats nothing personal. Just because we dont agree with you, doesnt mean we are personally against you

All valid points. Most people love to exaggerate online and in forums. Often lying about how "professional" they are and how long they have truly operated UAVS. Let alone roughly 70% of people in these forums or on Facebook drone groups, you name it just flat out lie and are straight up nubs and it's their first drone.
If this person truly had all these drones and experience etc he most certainly wouldn't be asking such questions.