Please confirm my understanding of flying near small airports in unrestricted airspace?

[Duke_Mulligan]

Hi all,

I know this is a rookie question, but I just want to make sure - am I correct in my understanding that small airstrips located in class G/unrestricted airspace do not require notification of ATC prior to flight within 5 miles?

The area I live is has many small helipads and airstrips on AirMap, etc., several I believe are legacy designations that are no longer actually active, some are active hospital helipads, etc., we only have one large radius of restricted airspace for the large airport on the other side of the city.

Obviously, if I were to fly in unrestricted space, but close to a small airport or helipad location that could have air traffic, such as a hospital helipad, I would still choose to notify them, but to be honest I would probably just choose not to fly that close. That being said, there are some nice places to fly that are a few miles out from those helipads, if flying there I would be staying well aware and under any altitude that the choppers would be going through at that distance from the hospital (which I highly doubt would be less than 400ft anyways, but still good to be careful), or any higher altitudes near the air strips. TBH I’m pretty confident that the air strips don’t have towers, they’re all grass airstrips with a couple small Cessna type planes that go up infrequently.

Kind of tying in to this, is it proper to say that any area where LAANC approval is not needed/available, also does not require any ATC notification? Again, obviously there are still situations where it would be appropriate, but just trying to understand the FAA rules.

 

[Rich QR]

If you are sure it is class G airspace, no notification is required. Class G is uncontrolled airspace, meaning no controller is watching it, and all pilots flying in it are responsible for their own separation from other traffic. There is nobody to notify.

You are always required to give way to aircraft carrying humans. You must not interfere with traffic or create a collision hazard.

If you have the ability to monitor the CTAF frequency, you may hear pilots announcing their presence, position, and intentions. This may help you be aware of traffic, but pilots are not required to use the radio, so you must be watchful anyway.

 

[Duke_Mulligan]

If you are sure it is class G airspace, no notification is required. Class G is uncontrolled airspace, meaning no controller is watching it, and all pilots flying in it are responsible for their own separation from other traffic. There is nobody to notify.

You are always required to give way to aircraft carrying humans. You must not interfere with traffic or create a collision hazard.

If you have the ability to monitor the CTAF frequency, you may hear pilots announcing their presence, position, and intentions. This may help you be aware of traffic, but pilots are not required to use the radio, so you must be watchful anyway.

Thanks for confirming!

As if the universe were reading my mind, I went out to a large and fairly sparsely populated lake yesterday to fly over the ice... sure enough, here comes a single engine buzzing low (LOW) over the lake just as I’m walking out on the ice. Sometimes pilots like to fly over the lakes several times in our area. Major bummer, but I turned right around and went home.

 

[hiflyer201]

You really should stay away from the approach and departure lane's of anything that looks like an airport. A windsock in good repair would be a good clue.
Most people don't like to fly low but there are no restriction in a lot of areas except being close enough to damage persons or property ( I always advise students that the insurance company could use that rule against you) and so you might see low flying aircraft. Open water along the shoreline is a likely place because there would be no powerlines.
It's certainly something to keep in mind if you are planning on flying beyond the LOS

As if the universe were reading my mind, I went out to a large and fairly sparsely populated lake yesterday to fly over the ice... sure enough, here comes a single engine buzzing low

 

[SethB]

Commercial drone operators regularly flying near untowered airports that are active should consider:
a) Listening on the CTAF frequency for aircraft announcing their intentions. For landings they will typically announce at 10mi out, including details of their bearing and the traffic pattern they’ll follow.
b) RPICs periodically announce their own operations & intentions on the CTAF frequency.

A colleague who flys for a large local farming co looked into this, as many of their farms are in the vicinity of an airport. It’s what he does to feel like he’s managing risk flying so many missions for mapping.

 

[Dogpilot]

I do fly at and around non-towered airports. I do this since a several of my industry friends need decent photos of aircraft they have for sale. The drone does offer a much better aspect for most larger aircraft. So I pick airports without any buildings on it along with a decent skyline. I also have 4 that have virtually no traffic. Regardless, I carry my Airband transceiver to keep abreast of traffic. I always land the drone and wait until the traffic shuts down or departs.

I just did this on my own aircraft at a nearby field I find perfect for this kind of shoot.

 

[SethB]

That is a great picture of a lovely aircraft! What a great application for drone photography.

 

[BigAl07]

Commercial drone operators regularly flying near untowered airports that are active should consider:
a) Listening on the CTAF frequency for aircraft announcing their intentions. For landings they will typically announce at 10mi out, including details of their bearing and the traffic pattern they’ll follow.
b) RPICs periodically announce their own operations & intentions on the CTAF frequency.

A colleague who flys for a large local farming co looked into this, as many of their farms are in the vicinity of an airport. It’s what he does to feel like he’s managing risk flying so many missions for mapping.

SethB you do know that we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast but listen only.

If you aren't an experienced Aviation Communicator you'll tie up potentially valuable radio time and possibly give inaccurate information. With AV COMMS there is a standard protocol that gives brevity while also giving needed details. Deviating from that standard is inadvisable and could be an FCC violation as well as just bad form.

By all means LISTEN but RPIC are told to NOT broadcast unless it's a genuine emergency.

 

[Dogpilot]

SethB you do know that we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast but listen only.

If you aren't an experienced Aviation Communicator you'll tie up potentially valuable radio time and possibly give inaccurate information. With AV COMMS there is a standard protocol that gives brevity while also giving needed details. Deviating from that standard is inadvisable and could be an FCC violation as well as just bad form.

By all means LISTEN but RPIC are told to NOT broadcast unless it's a genuine emergency.

Well speaking as a long time professional commercial pilot. Unless there is a lot of traffic on the radio, I rather like to know what is going on. So we rather appreciate the calls. Really, most people cannot possibly be as bad on the radio as the swarm of foreign students we have at the moment. While they technically are making the calls, we have utterly no idea what they are actually saying. It is simply awful in the SW with all the foreign governments subsidizing their students to come here and infest our airspace.

 

[SethB]

SethB you do know that we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast but listen only.

If you aren't an experienced Aviation Communicator you'll tie up potentially valuable radio time and possibly give inaccurate information. With AV COMMS there is a standard protocol that gives brevity while also giving needed details. Deviating from that standard is inadvisable and could be an FCC violation as well as just bad form.

By all means LISTEN but RPIC are told to NOT broadcast unless it's a genuine emergency.

Thanks for pointing that out.

My colleague has learned good skills as an aviation communicator because of his frequent operations near towered as well as non-towered and FBO-only fields. My understanding is that in some cases he is required by local ATC to announce operations as well as monitor. Apparently local practices differ.

I certainly agree that the inexperienced should stay off the air, monitor only, and not interfere with aviation comms. Having said that, RPICs are using the airspace, and must be aware of what’s happening around their operations, even in Class G.

PS. I just noticed that BigAl07 is a FAAST rep. I can tell you that your comment “we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast...” is the first I’ve heard such directly. Previously I’d been told that learning good aviation radio procedures was part of professional UAS operations.

 

[Rich QR]

On the issue of radio use, note that you're bound by the rules of BOTH the FAA and the FCC when operating a radio transmitter on aviation frequencies. The FCC requires that stations in the aviation service be licensed 47 CFR § 87.18 - Station license required. A station on board an aircraft is considered "licensed by rule", meaning the FCC automatically grants a license as long as the station is operated in accordance with all the applicable rules, and no individual paper document is required. But that only works for transmitters actually used on board an aircraft, which ours presumably would not be.

The various other categories of licensable stations are described here: 47 CFR Part 87 - AVIATION SERVICES . About the closest category I can see would be subpart K, "Aviation Support Stations" 47 CFR § 87.319 - Scope of service. . But I don't think that quite fits.

Regardless of how you are licensed, you are required to transmit your station identification when using airband radio. 47 CFR § 87.107 - Station identification. . I'm not sure what ID would be applicable to a drone pilot. Maybe the drone registration number? (But the registration number is only applicable for stations used on board an aircraft).

I suspect the enforcement of these rules may not be so rigorous, but nevertheless, the fact that the rules exist would be a reason why the FAA doesn't recommend drone pilots transmit unless there is a bona fide emergency.

If you're going to transmit on airband radio, definitely learn and use the phraseology as explained in the FAR/AIM.

 

[Rich QR]

PS. I just noticed that BigAl07 is a FAAST rep. I can tell you that your comment “we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast...” is the first I’ve heard such directly. Previously I’d been told that learning good aviation radio procedures was part of professional UAS operations.

This is addressed in the FAA's study guide for Part 107, at the bottom of page 41.

When operating in the vicinity of any airport, either towered or non-towered, it is important for a remote pilot to understand radio communications of manned aircraft in the area. Although 14 CFR part 107 only requires the remote pilot to receive authorization to operate in certain airport areas, it can be a good operating practice to have a radio that will allow the remote pilot to monitor the appropriate frequencies in the area. The remote pilot should refrain from transmitting over any active aviation frequency unless there is an emergency situation.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/remote_pilot_study_guide.pdf

 

[BigAl07]

PS. I just noticed that BigAl07 is a FAAST rep. I can tell you that your comment “we've been repeatedly told by the FAA to NOT broadcast...” is the first I’ve heard such directly. Previously I’d been told that learning good aviation radio procedures was part of professional UAS operations.

Sadly that's not an unusual statement not just about "Radio Comms" but about many regulations. Most tend to fixate on altitude and VLOS and gloss over the less "interesting" and less controversial aspects of UAS Operations.

 

[Dogpilot]

The issue of station licenses has been changed in recent years for operations within the United States. Owning several aircraft and operating them both in the USA and abroad you have to become very familiar with these rules. At the moment, I am only required to obtain a radio station license if I operate the aircraft outside the USA. This is to be compliant with ICAO rules. So on my larger aircraft, Twin Otters and Caravans, I have licenses. On my personal aircraft, a 206H I do not have and there is no requirement for one. Should I want to travel to Mexico, for example, then I would have to apply and pay the fee for one. They are good for 10 years or upon transfer of the title of the aircraft. You also used to need a Radio Telephone Operators license. Again, now only required for offshore operations. It used to be a $15 fee, but I have no idea what they run now, since I received mine in 1975.

As for operating procedures. Let us use the example of an FBO operator doing a runway inspection in his/her truck. They announce their intentions, identify what and where they are and go do the inspections. Should one of us flying in hear them, then we respond with what we will be doing and if their operation will interfere with our intentions. The same applies to folks, such as contract snowplow operators the municipality or county may have to clear the runway, or runway sweepers, guys doing maintenance on the lighting, painting lines and so on. To use my airband handheld, I simply need my FAA PL, which should also apply to the Pt 107 CPL. It also applies should you happen to have an A&P, repairman certificate and so on. It also seems to have been extended to pretty much anybody on an airport, since none of the above mentioned contractors have a license, station or otherwise. I pretty much know that for a fact, since I did own two FBO's and was an airport commissioner for years. The feds never required any license, but did require we gave them a radio.

Lets look at another example. For years I built and ran, with a team, the airport for Burning Man on federal land. All of our ground personnel (good old volunteers) had airband radios to communicate with the pilots to park them and give them a PPR number to authorize them to use the runway. Standing there with us was the staff from the Reno FISDO from the FAA, along with the BLM, sheriff and FBI. We had roughly 350 evolutions per day and where for a week, the busiest non-airport in Nevada. I do the same in South Africa for Afrikaburn. We operate exactly the same, staff has the handhelds and we operate with the West Cape Police and the 3 CAA controllers. Nope, no license there either. All our radios are privately owned and I am the only pilot on the team along with one girl who is an ATC controller in her day gig, rest just who I get for volunteers that day.

So if you cross borders, get a license for both your radio and yourself, within the USA, there is no longer any requirement.

 

[Rich QR]

The issue of station licenses has been changed in recent years for operations within the United States. Owning several aircraft and operating them both in the USA and abroad you have to become very familiar with these rules. At the moment, I am only required to obtain a radio station license if I operate the aircraft outside the USA. This is to be compliant with ICAO rules. So on my larger aircraft, Twin Otters and Caravans, I have licenses. On my personal aircraft, a 206H I do not have and there is no requirement for one. Should I want to travel to Mexico, for example, then I would have to apply and pay the fee for one. They are good for 10 years or upon transfer of the title of the aircraft. You also used to need a Radio Telephone Operators license. Again, now only required for offshore operations. It used to be a $15 fee, but I have no idea what they run now, since I received mine in 1975.

But see the current FCC rules, 47 CFR 87.18:

§ 87.18 Station license required.
(a) Except as noted in paragraph (b) of this section, stations in the aviation service must be licensed by the FCC either individually or by fleet.

(b) An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC if the aircraft station is not required by statute, treaty, or agreement to which the United States is signatory to carry a radio, and the aircraft station does not make international flights or communications. Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements, procedures, and technical specifications found in this part.

Congress created the concept of "license by rule" in 47 U.S. Code § 307(e). It allows the FCC to pass a rule that gives a blanket license to anyone to operate a radio in certain services, without an individual license being issued for the individual station. So technically, the radio on your 206H is licensed by the FCC, but the license was granted to you and to all other domestic aircraft stations by the FCC when the FCC passed rule 87.18(b), meaning you don't have or need an individual piece of paper.

But the license by rule provision only applies to an "aircraft station", which is defined as a station operated on board an aircraft. Stations operated on the ground still need an individual piece of paper in order to be legal.

In your description of FBO operations and burning man flight coordination, you describe having government officials being present, but you don't mention anyone from the FCC being there. The FCC is the agency authorized to enforce the requirement to have a radio station license.

The FAA won't enforce radio licensing rules, just like the FCC won't get involved with whether or not you can legally log PIC time under some unusual scenario.

 

[Dogpilot]

Actually, there is a rep from the FCC, since we operate over 2,000 radios and even a ground tracking RADAR as part of our network (we can track people on foot sneaking into the event). Each facet of operations is a separate group. Airport is or was part of community services and we where, prior to my exit in 2017, moving to DPW. Nope, nearly every Fed they could muster showed up. The ORG paid the Feds over $2,000,000 to cover the costs of all of them to be there. There where only two of us, called 'credentialed,' at the airport, the rest, over 100, where volunteers.

Nope at either FBO, Signature at Marietta, GA and the little FBO at West Georgia Regional, had radio station licenses. None of the fuelers had them, nor do any of the contractors. Neither there, or at any of my local uncontrolled airports here in the Southwest, such as Zuni, Gallup, Winslow, Tuba City and so on. This was a requirement, but it is no longer required. It is on the books by international convention. Heck even the head of the Atlanta FAA office didn't realize that my IA signature was good on Canadian aircraft and theirs was good on our. I had to read the treaty to him.

Feds are notorious at not knowing their own rules. I actually rubbed their face in that fact when I took three FAA inspectors down. They had illegally seized a Beechcraft B200 and wrote up 263 violations. Not a single one was valid. This I demonstrated to them in front of Congressman Westmorland, who vowed he would not leave congress until they where no longer on payroll. I am pretty up on the rules, both for business reasons and I get handsomely rewarded as a consultant in the business through Guidepoint. I have been selling off my employee based businesses and leasing operations, as now that I am older, I don't have the patience anymore. So I mainly stick to my geology consulting now. My Twin Otter, for example is leased in New Guinea (PK-FUM) doing geo work. So I have to keep up on the international requirements. I make the modifications to my aircraft to do the survey work. Some of which are fairly esoteric.

Drones offer up a nice expansion for geology. In Mexico, for example, it is illegal for me to take pictures from my aircraft. I can operate the drone and do the exact same thing. Weird.

Vertical RADAR for chemical composition: