Privacy & Pedos

[IC82will]

Hey, everyone. Got my Mavic Pro for Christmas, have done 6 flights since then and just joined this forum as of April 10th 2018.

But during my 6th flight, a nosey neighbour came across the park to me, to ask what I was doing, was I filming, why was I flying, did the drone have a camera, and he would call the police if I didn't land immediately so he could see what the drone had filmed.

I was actually flying without a microSD card as I'd forgotten it, but the attached smartphone offered the ability to store the odd low quality photo or two. And I had taken a few of my house just a street away.

Now, I was flying at about 200ft, well above the Drone Code's 50m (164ft). And I definitely wasn't filming.

But this guy, whilst quite polite about it, basically said they had had trouble in the past with pedophiles spying on his kids and that the police had told him to feel free to question anyone flying a drone in the area.

Now, there are several issues this incident raised..

1) thanks mate, but I'm definitely not a pedo and if I was, I doubt poor quality footage of your kids from 200ft would be of much use.

2) you made me cut my flight short and waste time and battery power just so I could prove to you the microSD slot was indeed empty.

3) your story about the pedophile (suspected, arrested or otherwise) didn't really add up when questioned about it and one doing that in the area would concern me too.

4) I've check the law time and time again, from the CAA to NATS, to gov.uk and even CCTV law and I was definitely not breaking any law, flying over your house at 200ft, not recording.

I had heard about this kind of thing affecting drone owners but didn't expect it to happen to me quite so soon.

Did I do anything wrong? Is the law on my side? Is this guy just a nosey neighbour? Was he actually worried I might have got footage of something he was trying to keep hidden in his garden? Stolen car perhaps???

I'm not sure. But it near ruined what should've been a beautiful evening flight.

No offense mate, but I'd rather capture photos and video footage of the setting sun over your throng of kids, anyday.

Thanks to anyone that can share tips, advice and their experiences.

Will

 

[waylander]

Hi IC82will

Yes its a pain in the ***, probably a " Nosey Neighbour", but on the whole, apart from the owner of a caravan park near where I fly, most people are civil, and as you did, if you speak to them in a reasonable manner, there generally is no issue.
As you suggest perhaps the guy did have something to hide, maybe growing weed in his green house ?
From you description of your flight it dose not appear as though you flew in a manner contrary to CAA or NATS guidelines.

Happy Flying
Waylander

 

[chezedog]

Maybe you should have the authorities keep an eye on "nosey neighbour". Seems like he's overcompensating to me.

 

[locoman]

I think we will see more and more to this, cause there is more and more articles showing up in the news. People are becoming more aware of our drones and what they can do. It use to be just RC airplane, which no one cared about, now there is stupid people doing things with their drone that is making the news.

 

[princeofthehouse]

you are fine. be polite but basically tell him to jog on.
"I am at x, at 50ft people are ants. no one cares about your horrible children"
him demanding you land to see footage or he will call cops
"My footage is confidential and is not of your concern, you are welcome to contact the police, where upon I will take the time to have them explain to you the penalties under CAA/NATS guidelines for interfering with a drone operator during flight.
Now kindly stand back so I may operate my drone safely"

Now the above regarding penalties is mostly nonsense, but some silly so and so won't know that. its about how you sell it.

but ultimately you have no responsibility to show him jack, I certainly would not be so inclined regardless of reason.

Try not to get into a problem situation but ultimately don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

some people have suggested buying a drone operator reflective vest, this will give people a false belief you may be doing something official, giving you a aura of authority and a increased chance they will leave you be.

 

[FL1H1]

Hey, everyone. Got my Mavic Pro for Christmas, have done 6 flights since then and just joined this forum as of April 10th 2018.

But during my 6th flight, a nosey neighbour came across the park to me, to ask what I was doing, was I filming, why was I flying, did the drone have a camera, and he would call the police if I didn't land immediately so he could see what the drone had filmed.

I was actually flying without a microSD card as I'd forgotten it, but the attached smartphone offered the ability to store the odd low quality photo or two. And I had taken a few of my house just a street away.

Now, I was flying at about 200ft, well above the Drone Code's 50m (164ft). And I definitely wasn't filming.

But this guy, whilst quite polite about it, basically said they had had trouble in the past with pedophiles spying on his kids and that the police had told him to feel free to question anyone flying a drone in the area.

Now, there are several issues this incident raised..

1) thanks mate, but I'm definitely not a pedo and if I was, I doubt poor quality footage of your kids from 200ft would be of much use.

2) you made me cut my flight short and waste time and battery power just so I could prove to you the microSD slot was indeed empty.

3) your story about the pedophile (suspected, arrested or otherwise) didn't really add up when questioned about it and one doing that in the area would concern me too.

4) I've check the law time and time again, from the CAA to NATS, to gov.uk and even CCTV law and I was definitely not breaking any law, flying over your house at 200ft, not recording.

I had heard about this kind of thing affecting drone owners but didn't expect it to happen to me quite so soon.

Did I do anything wrong? Is the law on my side? Is this guy just a nosey neighbour? Was he actually worried I might have got footage of something he was trying to keep hidden in his garden? Stolen car perhaps???

I'm not sure. But it near ruined what should've been a beautiful evening flight.

No offense mate, but I'd rather capture photos and video footage of the setting sun over your throng of kids, anyday.

Thanks to anyone that can share tips, advice and their experiences.

Will

I saw a video titled Drone flying, what people do when people approach....( You whilst flying) and he provides a good answer. Try not to look them in the eye and try not to react to aggression aggressively. On the contrary, be polite, friendly and advise them it takes a lot of effort and concentration to fly it safely, and if he should interfere to cause a crash he could be held responsible, you'll find they don't want the law involved if they might side with you. The guy on you tube is well equipped and it's an expensive solution but he has a viewing helmet and might offer to let them view matters through it. They might be quite interested and appreciative.

Some people, a lot, who can't afford one might just be out looking to get their kicks from starting a fight, makes them feel big and they don't have the money to have fun. I work with someone like this! I'm not too sure where his money goes, I think it might help finance a family business not making much money, maybe even a loss so he gets very jealous of anyone enjoying themselves, seemingly.

Anyway the truth is here you might be better off packing up sometimes. That's just the way the world is I'm afraid. If you're going to go out in the world then you're going to bump into some jumped up, ignorant or jealous bad ones and then its just best to walk away, come back another day. I do photography and once had a big burly bloke started shouting at me, accusing me of photographing him, demanding to know why I was ( I wasn't, eyeing up a photo waiting for him to move out of the way) you're going to get this no matter what you do.

 

[Mavflyer]

I certainly wouldn't have shown him my footage. Cell phones would have a much better angle at filming children if one were so inclined, but did he go around demanding to inspect the cell phones of people who had them out? Would you comply with something like that? It's ridiculous, and so is asking to inspect other people's drone footage.

 

[drpellypo]

OK, so another angle. I am a drone flyer, however I never fly near houses if I can help it, because of what happened to me as a non flyer. We have a very secluded garden, with trees basically surrounding the property. On a really hot day, my kids were out in their paddling pool (they are 8 and 6) and had decided to take off their swimsuits. No issues with this as we're in the back garden. My wife also didn't have a top on. We heard a drone flying round the field near us and didn't think much of it, until he flew above our garden, with the camera facing the garden, and hovered. My wife shrieked and ran in the house. Now this guy was technically not over our property, he was right on the outskirts. Technically he wasn't breaking the law per se, but it made me feel very very uncomfortable because he'd made our private space, not so private any more. I went and spoke to the guy and asked if he could please not fly and hover with his camera pointed towards our garden and he said fine. I wasn't interested in making him show me the footage etc, as I think that's a touch too far, and had he not stopped and hovered with the cam pointing right at my kids/wife, I wouldn't have been bothered.

 

[gnirtS]

But during my 6th flight, a nosey neighbour came across the park to me, to ask what I was doing, was I filming, why was I flying, did the drone have a camera, and he would call the police if I didn't land immediately so he could see what the drone had filmed.

He's got absolutely no legal right to review the footage. Or to make you land provided you're operating from a legal location.

Now, I was flying at about 200ft, well above the Drone Code's 50m (164ft). And I definitely wasn't filming.

50m is one of the rules although be careful if its a town. See below.

But this guy, whilst quite polite about it, basically said they had had trouble in the past with pedophiles spying on his kids and that the police had told him to feel free to question anyone flying a drone in the area.

There is no way the police would authorise effectively an untrained vigilante.
As a side note, you're in the uk. Like everywhere in the world but america we dont ave "pedophiles". The correct spelling is "Paedophile".....

2) you made me cut my flight short and waste time and battery power just so I could prove to you the microSD slot was indeed empty.

I wouldn't have done that. It would have given the guys ego and power trip a boost.
To be honest, let him call the police. Firstly, they wouldnt have come anyway. Given police now won't even routinely attend a burglary, assault or even more serious they wont attend for someone flying an RC toy in a field. They're far too busy chasing down people who say nasty things on twitter which offend snowflakes.
If a miracle happened and the police DID attend they could actually inform the guy of the law and stop him harassing people next time.
If he's going round claiming the police have encouraged him to do and ask things which is untrue then he may well be committing an offence.

4) I've check the law time and time again, from the CAA to NATS, to gov.uk and even CCTV law and I was definitely not breaking any law, flying over your house at 200ft, not recording.

Be a little bit careful here. Its 50m from structure or person BUT 150m and not overfly over crowds and "built up areas". The CAA define built up areas as a town, residential or industrial area, a major road and so on.
If the house is in a residential street or town you MAYBE in breach there. This one catches people out quite a bit.

I've only ever had 1 person come up and rant telling me its illegal ( on a 200m wide completely empty beach etc. He's west walian though so by default obnoxious), every other interaction was positive. Personally if someone has concerns i'll talk them through the system and the law, maybe even let them see the screen. What i won't do however is cut short or change my flight to accommodate them if its just ranting. If they have a valid point or something ive missed fair enough but random ranting about "think of the children" and "police told me so" then no chance. I'm carrying on my flight.

What i'd recommend doing is starting an audio recording (or video but thats less subtle) if someone comes up to you so you have evidence of how the encounter went if they do lose it or start trying to call in authorities. Be polite but firm. Quite often this makes the ranting idiots more annoyed but so be it. Keep evidence of the conversation.
Just for an added sense of openness, register the flight on NATs Drone Assist prior to take off so you can show you really have nothing to hide.
Ultimately your best defence are your flight logs as well if things went really downhill. They'll prove accurately where you were and how high at all times.

 

[macoman]

This is one of the reasons why drone pilots should fly away from their neighbors and in general away from people. When I go and fly my Mavic or my Xiaomi 4k drone, I go to remote places, away from people in general.

There are sometimes people around but because it's away from any community, no onecare and you will enjoy a relax time with your aircraft.

 

[cornz]

Also, provided you adhere to the guidelines, you can film ANYTHING and ANYONE in a public place. (UK).
Personally, I'd tell him it's none of his business, let him phone the rozzers but absolutely refuse to show him the footage. If the police are called, you are under no obligation to show them either but I would show the police the footage, not him and let them break the news to him that no laws have been broken. At that point I would "politely" explain to the complainant that if he disturbs you further YOU will return the favour and have him arrested for harassment.
Officious busy bodies are the bane of society and should be challenged at every opportunity as they think the law is whatever they believe it to be depending on the circumstances.
As for that old chestnut about "filming my kids", his kids are filmed everyday at school, the playground, the shopping centre on CCTV.
*Note to self: Record any issues with people like this and then sue them if they accuse you of being a paedophile. Slander is a serious offence.

 

[Thwyllo]

Hey, everyone. Got my Mavic Pro for Christmas, have done 6 flights since then and just joined this forum as of April 10th 2018.

But during my 6th flight, a nosey neighbour came across the park to me, to ask what I was doing, was I filming, why was I flying, did the drone have a camera, and he would call the police if I didn't land immediately so he could see what the drone had filmed.

I was actually flying without a microSD card as I'd forgotten it, but the attached smartphone offered the ability to store the odd low quality photo or two. And I had taken a few of my house just a street away.

Now, I was flying at about 200ft, well above the Drone Code's 50m (164ft). And I definitely wasn't filming.

But this guy, whilst quite polite about it, basically said they had had trouble in the past with pedophiles spying on his kids and that the police had told him to feel free to question anyone flying a drone in the area.

Now, there are several issues this incident raised..

1) thanks mate, but I'm definitely not a pedo and if I was, I doubt poor quality footage of your kids from 200ft would be of much use.

2) you made me cut my flight short and waste time and battery power just so I could prove to you the microSD slot was indeed empty.

3) your story about the pedophile (suspected, arrested or otherwise) didn't really add up when questioned about it and one doing that in the area would concern me too.

4) I've check the law time and time again, from the CAA to NATS, to gov.uk and even CCTV law and I was definitely not breaking any law, flying over your house at 200ft, not recording.

I had heard about this kind of thing affecting drone owners but didn't expect it to happen to me quite so soon.

Did I do anything wrong? Is the law on my side? Is this guy just a nosey neighbour? Was he actually worried I might have got footage of something he was trying to keep hidden in his garden? Stolen car perhaps???

I'm not sure. But it near ruined what should've been a beautiful evening flight.

No offense mate, but I'd rather capture photos and video footage of the setting sun over your throng of kids, anyday.

Thanks to anyone that can share tips, advice and their experiences.

Will

Just politely but firmly suggest he calls the police and leave it at that. His story sounds like BS anyway, the police would never suggest a private citizen starts quizzing people about their intentions and activities, it's the thin end of the wedge...

 

[Thwyllo]

OK, so another angle. I am a drone flyer, however I never fly near houses if I can help it, because of what happened to me as a non flyer. We have a very secluded garden, with trees basically surrounding the property. On a really hot day, my kids were out in their paddling pool (they are 8 and 6) and had decided to take off their swimsuits. No issues with this as we're in the back garden. My wife also didn't have a top on. We heard a drone flying round the field near us and didn't think much of it, until he flew above our garden, with the camera facing the garden, and hovered. My wife shrieked and ran in the house. Now this guy was technically not over our property, he was right on the outskirts. Technically he wasn't breaking the law per se, but it made me feel very very uncomfortable because he'd made our private space, not so private any more. I went and spoke to the guy and asked if he could please not fly and hover with his camera pointed towards our garden and he said fine. I wasn't interested in making him show me the footage etc, as I think that's a touch too far, and had he not stopped and hovered with the cam pointing right at my kids/wife, I wouldn't have been bothered.

I think you showed remarkable constraint compared to what I or other people might have done.

 

[lmel2005]

Today, with all these flying machines in the air, and space, everyone who is out of his house walls, is in common view.

We must face it as a fact.

For example, if there isn't any drone around, but a new high building at the other side of the road, and my children want to play naked in my backyard, what should I do? Everyone could look out of his window.

 

[drpellypo]

Also, provided you adhere to the guidelines, you can film ANYTHING and ANYONE in a public place. (UK).
Personally, I'd tell him it's none of his business, let him phone the rozzers but absolutely refuse to show him the footage. If the police are called, you are under no obligation to show them either but I would show the police the footage, not him and let them break the news to him that no laws have been broken. At that point I would "politely" explain to the complainant that if he disturbs you further YOU will return the favour and have him arrested for harassment.
Officious busy bodies are the bane of society and should be challenged at every opportunity as they think the law is whatever they believe it to be depending on the circumstances.
As for that old chestnut about "filming my kids", his kids are filmed everyday at school, the playground, the shopping centre on CCTV.
*Note to self: Record any issues with people like this and then sue them if they accuse you of being a paedophile. Slander is a serious offence.

Private land is not a public place though. It's a place OPEN to the public, but it's not a public place, and the laws governing filming in a public place do not apply. It's a shady area where the law is concerned. I am a cinematographer by trade and if I am commercially filming on private land, open to the public, I have to arrange with the property owners, then I have to post a notice that by entering the premises, they (the public) are granting permission to be filmed/photographed and included in promotional photos and video, and the only way they can refuse permission is by leaving the area immediately. This effectively gives me their permission to film them.

 

[drpellypo]

Today, with all these flying machines in the air, and space, everyone who is out of his house walls, is in common view.

We must face it as a fact.

For example, if there isn't any drone around, but a new high building at the other side of the road, and my children want to play naked in my backyard, what should I do? Everyone could look out of his window.

Playing devils advocate here - the point you raise was exactly the case for me - and in my case, there was a perceived expectation of privacy. If I lived next to a building higher than me, then I would accept that people can see my kids. But I don't. I live in a completely secluded property, not overlooked by anybody, and surrounded by 50m trees. So when it's sunny, I have no issue with my kids being naked in the garden, and my wife has no issue being topless. I was very much pro drone, anti haters until I was sat on the other side of the fence, and I felt that my privacy was very much violated.

 

[lmel2005]

Playing devils advocate here - the point you raise was exactly the case for me - and in my case, there was a perceived expectation of privacy. If I lived next to a building higher than me, then I would accept that people can see my kids. But I don't. I live in a completely secluded property, not overlooked by anybody, and surrounded by 50m trees. So when it's sunny, I have no issue with my kids being naked in the garden, and my wife has no issue being topless. I was very much pro drone, anti haters until I was sat on the other side of the fence, and I felt that my privacy was very much violated.

Yes I understand. I am on the fence too, but we must admit, that technology has proven our feel of privacy, been a mistake.

With 500 bucks, anyone can take very detailed pictures of my backyard, from a large distance, while I will fight drones flying near my house.

Technology changes man's life, and it will continuously change it, and we can only adapt to it.

 

[gnirtS]

they (the public) are granting permission to be filmed/photographed and included in promotional photos and video, and the only way they can refuse permission is by leaving the area immediately. This effectively gives me their permission to film them.

This is a slight issue with the UK, yes you can legally fly over the area providing you're complying with the ANO restrictions.
However, regarding filming, UK data protection and privacy laws still apply - these are nothing to do with aviation or drones.

Generally in a public place there is no "expectation to privacy" in the UK and that also applies to private places where the general public is allowed. Its murkier filming private individuals on private access land without public access.
That said, the 24mm or so equivalent lenses you'd have a hard job arguing a privacy violation from a drone 50-100m above you, especially if its just passing through not hovering.

 

[macoman]

Playing devils advocate here - the point you raise was exactly the case for me - and in my case, there was a perceived expectation of privacy. If I lived next to a building higher than me, then I would accept that people can see my kids. But I don't. I live in a completely secluded property, not overlooked by anybody, and surrounded by 50m trees. So when it's sunny, I have no issue with my kids being naked in the garden, and my wife has no issue being topless. I was very much pro drone, anti haters until I was sat on the other side of the fence, and I felt that my privacy was very much violated.

This is why I wouldn't mind if the government create a law that will not allow to fly drones outside, around your neighbors unless is inside your house, in a public and retired park or in the mountains or beaches. I am already adapted to fly in these conditions as I never fly around my neighbors unless is inside of my house or away from people, in a remote place.

 

[lmel2005]

This is why I wouldn't mind if the government create a law that will not allow to fly drones outside, around your neighbors unless is inside your house, in a public and retired park or in the mountains or beaches. I am already adapted to fly in these conditions as I never fly around my neighbors unless is inside of my house or away from people, in a remote place.

Yes, but you shouldn't mind either, if a drone was flying in public place but NEAR your house, or near your family sunbathing on a beach, or climbing on a mountain.