Terrible LAANC ATC Treatment in San Juan PR

[SkySteve83]

Just finishing a photo shoot for a hotel in San Juan Puerto Rico. I had my drone planning to shoot some aerials but I was ignored by ATC and or LAANC for the third time in two trips over the last 6 months. It's a Class D airspace near a small GA airport but I requested an area to the north of the approaches, and all I requested was clearance to 100'. It was canceled with no response each time. I think those of us who are professionals, have licenses, and follow all the rules should at least be respected enough and allowed to do our jobs. Now I am leaving without the aerial shots I needed. We finally wound up chartering a helicopter for an hour and got a few aerials but very limited to what I would have shot with my Mavic. The helicopter couldn't get close enough for the shots I wanted and was way too limited in movement to capture any video, (which the vibration would have limited anyway). I have done hundreds of aerial shoots with helicopters over my career, and in some cases are necessary, (high altitudes or flying to areas that are unacceable with a drone). But most of my work these days is with a drone.

I was in St Lucia last year and had total cooperation with ATC flying near an international airport! The government approved my flights and allowed/instructed me to speak to the tower by phone every time I flew with no issues. Perfect. Why they don't permit that in the US is a mistake and sad for us working with drones.

Not sure what can be done, but being ignored when I am working on an assignment that makes my living, is just not acceptable. Maybe they need to treat those of us with PP licenses with more attention in these cases.

Rant over but I think something needs to be done. Thanks for listening!

 

[GFields]

I have had nothing but great luck with the FAA getting approvals. It usually takes two weeks to get approval so make sure the date you request to fly is at least two weeks out. The last one I did, they missed the two-week limit but approved it and changed the date of the flight. I had to fly on a different day but at least I was able to complete the photo shoot.

 

[Shuttersky597]

This will be an excellent question for Monday nights pilot institute Q&A on you tube.
Maybe they're aligning with the DJI paranoia that is working it's way through.
You said said you had no trouble in other locations before.

 

[SkySteve83]

First three times at the same location. LAANC always 1 to 2 months in advance. No response other than pending from Aloft. No problems anywhere else I can remember.

 

[GFields]

No response other than pending from Aloft. No problems anywhere else I can remember.

Apply for the waiver at the FAA website. They said to allow 90 days, but like I said usually two weeks

 

[Vic Moss]

Please send me a summary of what occured. I'm working with FAA ATO (Air Traffic Organization) & Aloft, and getting these issues in front of folks at the FAA who want to know.

Email me at [email protected]. I'll include your story with the report. No names will be used.

 

[R.Cowan]

Please send me a summary of what occured. I'm working with FAA ATO (Air Traffic Organization) & Aloft, and getting these issues in front of folks at the FAA who want to know.

Email me at [email protected]. I'll include your story with the report. No names will be used.

Vic, you are a tremendous asset to our industry. Thanks for all you do!

 

[SkySteve83]

Apply for the waiver at the FAA website. They said to allow 90 days, but like I said usually two weeks

Like I said, this is the only airspace I’ve had trouble. Most of the time it’s an instant approval but occasionally near an airport it’s taken a few days. In San Juan, (TJIG), applied at least a month or more in advance each time. I’ll try and gather the details if I can and send them to Vic.

GFIELDS; So your implying that using LAANC through Aloft isn’t as good as going direct to the FAA? If that’s the case, we need to fix that. When I recently flew in the Bahamas and St Lucia, I did go through the tourism people who hooked me up with the respective airspace control authority. Didn’t need to use aloft etc. The DJI software was not restricting me at all, even near an airport. They did what I always thought they should do here in the US - I communicated directly with the tower. There are so many reasons it would be safer to do that. If I go back again to San Juan, I’ll try the FAA directly if that’s possible. But isn’t it the FAA who gets the request through LAANC?

To clarify, ALOFT changed their name to Air Control.

 

[GFields]

So your implying that using LAANC through Aloft isn’t as good as going direct to the FAA?

Not at all. But if you want to fly higher than was LAANC will give you, then filling for a waiver with the FAA will often get the job done.

 

[SkySteve83]

Not at all. But if you want to fly higher than was LAANC will give you, then filling for a waiver with the FAA will often get the job done.

I see. Well in this case I started with 400’ but then lowered the request to 100’ on my last attempt to see if it made a difference. The map in air control showed “0” as the altitude. Good tip about waiver though. I hope the FAA helps solve this in the future. Especially when tiny Caribbean countries treat me with more respect than my own…

 

[GFields]

I see. Well in this case I started with 400’ but then lowered the request to 100’ on my last attempt to see if it made a difference. The map in air control showed “0” as the altitude. Good tip about waiver though. I hope the FAA helps solve this in the future. Especially when tiny Caribbean countries treat me with more respect than my own…

You can only obtain approval through LAANC for the "automatic approval altitude" if the map shows "0" then the only way around that is for FAA to approve a waiver. They don't approve them in every case, sometimes they make adjustments, for example you ask for 300' AGL they might change it to 200' or whatever they feel is safe.

 

[Parkerjh]

Honestly, it sounds more like you are mixed up in what approvals you need and how to go about getting them rather than you being ignored and disrespectd. Don't expect approval via LAANC in a 0' grid. Apply through DroneZone for an airspace authorization. I have filled in 100's of these and have never been ignored or disrespected.

 

[SkySteve83]

Honestly, it sounds more like you are mixed up in what approvals you need and how to go about getting them rather than you being ignored and disrespectd. Don't expect approval via LAANC in a 0' grid. Apply through DroneZone for an airspace authorization. I have filled in 100's of these and have never been ignored or disrespected.

That could be the case but it would have been nice to get a response letting me know that. So LAANC is only useful for areas with altitudes already permitted? I certainly don’t remember learning that in any of the courses I’ve taken. Going forward I will pursue the method through Drone Zone. I still do not understand why I received no response other than “pending” from Aloft or Air Control. That was misleading. Why not an email telling me to apply at Drone Zone? I will try it that way on my next trip down there. I’m wasn’t mad, just frustrated. Thank you for all the advice.

 

[SkySteve83]

You can only obtain approval through LAANC for the "automatic approval altitude" if the map shows "0" then the only way around that is for FAA to approve a waiver. They don't approve them in every case, sometimes they make adjustments, for example you ask for 300' AGL they might change it to 200' or whatever they feel is safe.

I am just now understanding the first line in your response. But why does it say "pending" if that is the case? Why not just say "unable"? Seems like we are still in the infancy of ATC dealing with drones. Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[GFields]

I am just now understanding the first line in your response. But why does it say "pending" if that is the case? Why not just say "unable"? Seems like we are still in the infancy of ATC dealing with drones. Thanks again for everyone's input.

I can’t answer that.

Reach out to Air Control (previously Aloft) to see what they say.

Having been there I always look up the address on www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/

If the location is in a zone lower than I need to fly I apply for a waiver.

If the location is in a 200-400 zone I go through the LAANC system.

This is Not an ATC issue at all. It an FAA issue. The FAA controls the airspace. ATC simply monitors and instructs manned aircraft. They don’t instruct drone pilots.

If fact, drone pilots should never contact ATC.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap11_section_8.html

 

[SkySteve83]

I can’t answer that.

Reach out to Air Control (previously Aloft) to see what they say.

Having been there I always look up the address on www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/

If the location is in a zone lower than I need to fly I apply for a waiver.

If the location is in a 200-400 zone I go through the LAANC system.

This is Not an ATC issue at all. It an FAA issue. The FAA controls the airspace. ATC simply monitors and instructs manned aircraft. They don’t instruct drone pilots.

If fact, drone pilots should never contact ATC.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap11_section_8.html

Of course, you are correct as it is not an ATC issue. Although in the other countries, I flew in recently, I was requested to contact ATC via phone for my flights. Much safer and easier. I did send them my PP Cert along with my requests, so maybe that was a consideration regarding ATC contact. Going forward I will be more vigilant as to the restrictions, and go through DroneZone when necessary. Am I the only Part 107 pilot to think that LAANC was all you needed? it wouldn't hurt for apps like Aloft to let you know immediately when it can't help. Thanks again!

 

[SkySteve83]

Please send me a summary of what occured. I'm working with FAA ATO (Air Traffic Organization) & Aloft, and getting these issues in front of folks at the FAA who want to know.

Email me at [email protected]. I'll include your story with the report. No names will be used.

Hi Vic, well it seems as I'm sure you've seen in this thread that it's possible I was not following the correct method to gain clearance to fly in that airspace. I do feel Aloft or Air Control should have responded with the correct procedure for me to pursue, instead of just keeping me waiting for approval that was never coming. My drone photography is only a small part of my photography projects. As a result, I didn't pay enough attention to the need for any alternative methods of acquiring authorization. I just kept checking my Aloft app for the status. As I've said in the other post, I think Aloft should let you know when it can't help. In this case, it was only an obstacle in getting my work accomplished. Lesson learned.