Took off with 4 Sats.... Warranty possible?

[matair]

Some of the cases that's happened is where the drone has taken off without GPS and therefore didn't know it was in an NFZ, it's then subsequently acquired a GPS lock and realised it's in an NFZ and auto landed.

If you want a definite answer there are users here who are able to analyse the logs from the drone:

Mavic Flight Log Retrieval and Analysis Guide

With the introduction of the Mavic Mini there has been a noticeable uptick in the number of posts requesting help with lost or crashed aircraft. While there is plenty of help and advice available on this forum, and detailed guidance and options on several other websites, I thought that perhaps a...

mavicpilots.com

that's exactly what happened to me. The app authorized me to take off without warning, in an authorization zone. I had 4 sattelites. A few moments later just after the number of satteltes increased to 10, auto landing triggered and my drone fell into the sea. Do you guys think the warranty will work?

 

[BigAl07]

that's exactly what happened to me. The app authorized me to take off without warning, in an authorization zone. I had 4 sattelites. A few moments later just after the number of satteltes increased to 10, auto landing triggered and my drone fell into the sea. Do you guys think the warranty will work?

First off WELCOME to the forum.

It is most likely going to be "Operator Error" for taking off without proper satellite signals. Keep in mind it's not "just" about the # of satellites but the range/spread of the satellites. It all goes into a calculation and the Flight Controller uses this information. It sounds like you may have been a bit too eager to get flying and the result is a "soggy" UAS now.

 

[matair]

First off WELCOME to the forum.

It is most likely going to be "Operator Error" for taking off without proper satellite signals. Keep in mind it's not "just" about the # of satellites but the range/spread of the satellites. It all goes into a calculation and the Flight Controller uses this information. It sounds like you may have been a bit too eager to get flying and the result is a "soggy" UAS now.

THANK YOU for your welcome!

You described the situation perfectly ^^
do you think there is a chance, to try to convince dji that it is their responsibility? I usually fly in the same area and I always got the warning message "take-off impossible" then "ready to go" by filling out the small form of self-authorization. In addition, according to the flight record (phantomhelp), it seems that I was in gps mode when taking off:

DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help

Upload and view flight logs from your DJI drones

www.phantomhelp.com

In the other hand, the flight record in DJI Go says that I was in OPTI, then ATTI, and then GPS mode (and autolanding started)

 

[vindibona1]

I'm sorry for your loss. It's a pity that the thing was programmed to shut down when it recognized that you were in a NFZ. But what restricted space is there when you're over the water????

For those in the US I think stuff like this makes a case for State Farm drone insurance. While I had DJI Care/Refresh for my Mavic 2 Pro I added State Farm coverage because it was cheap. $60 for the year. But strangely, when I added my Mini 2 there was no additional premium charged! It should be noted that State Farm will not cover incidents that happen when flying commercially. But as a recreational flyer it is good to know that it is all-risk. Additionally, as I have the fly more package, the coverage includes all that came with the kit as theft and non flying incidents are also covered.

 

[eaglesurfing]

Welcome to the forum and enjoy.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Sorry about the drone but I am just wondering why you think this could or should, be considered as a failure of the drone or its software? What would you have it do?
Yes, outside I do lift off without a satellite lock but often I have to, I need to climb out of the 'satellite shadow' of trees to get a lock. Do I fly the drone away from the take off point without a satellite lock? No, why?
Two reasons.
1) it seems simply unwise for something that relies on GPS postioning for many aspects of its behaviour.
2a) no homepoint (initially)
2b) the homepoint will be set if and when the drone gets a satellite lock and that homepoint will be beneath the drone at that point in time, where would that be in relation to me???????? (Yes I know I can subsequently reset it to the controller's position etc. but it's a step that is easily forgotten whilst caught up in piloting the drone.)

 

[matair]

Sorry about the drone but I am just wondering why you think this could or should, be considered as a failure of the drone or its software? What would you have it do?
Yes, outside I do lift off without a satellite lock but often I have to, I need to climb out of the 'satellite shadow' of trees to get a lock. Do I fly the drone away from the take off point without a satellite lock? No, why?
Two reasons.
1) it seems simply unwise for something that relies on GPS postioning for many aspects of its behaviour.
2a) no homepoint (initially)
2b) the homepoint will be set if and when the drone gets a satellite lock and that homepoint will be beneath the drone at that point in time, where would that be in relation to me???????? (Yes I know I can subsequently reset it to the controller's position etc. but it's a step that is easily forgotten whilst caught up in piloting the drone.)

Thanks for your answer. at least it allowed me to gain experience with drones haha
I'll try to find a drone replacement unit without controller and accesories...

 

[dixter]

The real question is why did you think it was ok to fly there in the first place.

 

[matair]

The real question is why did you think it was ok to fly there in the first place.

Because the app didn't show any warning message at the take off. I was allowed to take off and I was in GPS mode while take off according to:

DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help

Upload and view flight logs from your DJI drones

www.phantomhelp.com

 

[BigAl07]

The real question is why did you think it was ok to fly there in the first place.

Easy there.... let's be nice.

Many of us fly in similar (or a lot worse) locations. The trick here is being able to understand how to fly the aircraft when the "Training Wheels" come off. Unfortunately the vast majority of us UAS owners have no clue how to actually FLY the aircraft without the bells & whistles handing the majority of control/stability tasks. We Buy, Charge, and hit the GO button without ever learning the What If's of the "system" and how to handle when the "system" isn't fully operational.

 

[matair]

Easy there.... let's be nice.

Many of us fly in similar (or a lot worse) locations. The trick here is being able to understand how to fly the aircraft when the "Training Wheels" come off. Unfortunately the vast majority of us UAS owners have no clue how to actually FLY the aircraft without the bells & whistles handing the majority of control/stability tasks. We Buy, Charge, and hit the GO button without ever learning the What If's of the "system" and how to handle when the "system" isn't fully operational.

totally true and I learned it the hard way. Flying a drone has many intricacies and is more complex than it looks. Lots of advice for that is given on this page: Prevent a Crash or Flyaway with Your Mavic | Mavic Help
I will post it for the next ones and let them not make this mistake.

 

[dixter]

Not to try and be the parent here. But you just wrote that you had no clue where you were flying and if you were in restricted air or not. So if you had taken off and ran into a helicopter and it crashed you do know that your story of that you are relying on a toy drone to keep you out of trouble and put into prison. This is exactly why there are rules and laws in an attempt to protect other air craft. You should go to the FAA and ask them to pay for your drone. Then come back here and tell the rest of us what they tell you.

 

[dixter]

Ok... to attempt to help this type of situation out... there is an app that you might be interested in thats called B4UFLY that will give you an idea of if you should be in the area you want to fly in....

 

[tlswift58]

totally true and I learned it the hard way. Flying a drone has many intricacies and is more complex than it looks. Lots of advice for that is given on this page: Prevent a Crash or Flyaway with Your Mavic | Mavic Help
I will post it for the next ones and let them not make this mistake.

You kind of answered your own question. You had flown from that location before and had to go thru the process to "unlock" the location; but this one time it did not ask you to do so. That alone should have set off bells in your mind that something was amiss - thus finding out satellite issues kind of after the fact.

Properly setting up your drone before flying is a critical issue - almost every newbie video I've seen on YouTube / others covers this very important aspect pretty well. Having the drone set to land when an issue happens is not wise to me. You found that out too. Setting it to hover or RTH should be the go to setting, not land - esp if you fly a lot over water or other places where landing would end up losing the drone.

Highly encourage you to watch quite a few videos on how to fly your drone of choice - as each drone from the Mini to the Mavic Pro are way different in many respects. I've watched quite a few on my Air2 and still know about half of its features. So, until I learn more of them - I fly very conservatively as losing a $1k drone is not my idea of a good / fun time.

If Norway has "drone insurance," I'd recommend it as a failsafe, as DJI is real finicky on responsibility and replacement of the drone - even with Refresh and all their additional replacement items that earn them A LOT of money in the long run - as if they can blame it on pilot error - guess who pays - NOT DJI.

 

[tlswift58]

Ok... to attempt to help this type of situation out... there is an app that you might be interested in thats called B4UFLY that will give you an idea of if you should be in the area you want to fly in....

Dixter - he's in Norway. Not sure if B4UFLY works there - maybe it does. He needs to find an app like that or KittyHawk / UAVFly / etc. that covers Norway and probably most of Europe.

 

[elborak]

You should go to the FAA and ask them to pay for your drone. Then come back here and tell the rest of us what they tell you.

They'll probably tell him "We have no jurisdiction over Norway."

 

[raven swe]

well now you know what happens when you don't wait for a proper satellite count for the drone to fix onto to get its position, live and learn so they say

 

[DanMan32]

You kind of answered your own question. You had flown from that location before and had to go thru the process to "unlock" the location; but this one time it did not ask you to do so. That alone should have set off bells in your mind that something was amiss - thus finding out satellite issues kind of after the fact.

Properly setting up your drone before flying is a critical issue - almost every newbie video I've seen on YouTube / others covers this very important aspect pretty well. Having the drone set to land when an issue happens is not wise to me. You found that out too. Setting it to hover or RTH should be the go to setting, not land - esp if you fly a lot over water or other places where landing would end up losing the drone.

Highly encourage you to watch quite a few videos on how to fly your drone of choice - as each drone from the Mini to the Mavic Pro are way different in many respects. I've watched quite a few on my Air2 and still know about half of its features. So, until I learn more of them - I fly very conservatively as losing a $1k drone is not my idea of a good / fun time.

If Norway has "drone insurance," I'd recommend it as a failsafe, as DJI is real finicky on responsibility and replacement of the drone - even with Refresh and all their additional replacement items that earn them A LOT of money in the long run - as if they can blame it on pilot error - guess who pays - NOT DJI.

There is no setting on what the response will be when suddenly caught in an authorization or restricted zone. You're thinking of failsafe which pertains to signal loss. That was not the case here.

Since there's a discrepancy between what Go shows for the flight log vs what PhantomHelp. Below 10m, he should have had P-vision (or VPS) and not P-GPS. That would have limited him to 15ft altitude so as to remain in VPS range.
It did let him go beyond VPS altitude which then set him into ATTI.

So he may have a case here.

At the same time though, if his mobile device has GPS, the map view should have shown the zones. I just verified Go on my S20 shows the authorization zone over me without having my M2 connected. I'm not sure if I have ever had my M2 connected with my S20.

So on the one hand the AC or app may have misreported or mis-set flight mode on poor satellite environment, which isn't completely pilot error, but on the other hand map would show you in an authorization zone which would put you in trouble as soon as FC started using GPS. That's pilot error for not checking environment on pre-flight.

PS: always wait for and verify HP before takeoff or just after motor start. Sometimes you won't hear it stated, but map will show it if it is set.

Anyone know if you can counter zone violation forced landing like you can for critical low battery?

 

[DanMan32]

I'm sorry for your loss. It's a pity that the thing was programmed to shut down when it recognized that you were in a NFZ. But what restricted space is there when you're over the water????

For those in the US I think stuff like this makes a case for State Farm drone insurance. While I had DJI Care/Refresh for my Mavic 2 Pro I added State Farm coverage because it was cheap. $60 for the year. But strangely, when I added my Mini 2 there was no additional premium charged! It should be noted that State Farm will not cover incidents that happen when flying commercially. But as a recreational flyer it is good to know that it is all-risk. Additionally, as I have the fly more package, the coverage includes all that came with the kit as theft and non flying incidents are also covered.

Many airports purposely have their runways oriented to take advantage of flat water. Therefore the runway approach path would indeed be over water, and DJI mark such path as authorization zone.

Also large airports near water could be encircled with an authorization zone, part of which could be over water.

 

[DanMan32]

Since this is in a forum for all Mavic models, have we established what model we're dealing with?
Clues are it has a 3S battery and uses Go app, which means MA1 or older since M2 has 4S batteries. Another clue is that it seemed to drop VPS somewhere between 6 and 8ft.