What is the point of recreational flying if you can't fly anywhere?

[Sminagos]

So practically if I interpret CASA's rules, you cannot recreationally fly a Mavic mini in Austalia;

Within 30m of people (in a cylindrical shape, so that excludes directly overhead even at 120m)
Over a populous area at any altitude (over my house, neighbourhood, streets, roads, businesses, sports clubs, beaches, events)
Over National Parks (not really CASA's initiative, but the precious greenies)

That leaves, the outback and deserted beaches 5hrs away from any city.

So, what is the point!!

 

[Galeforce1]

Depends on where you live. When I was living in inner city Sydney, I knew there were very few places within a couple of hours driving where I could fly. Now I am just south of Perth, WA in the suburbs not far from the coast, and there are many more places I can fly within 20-30 mins driving distance. I mainly fly from the beaches, but can also fly over the Swan river in places, and even over some local parks within the CASA rules.

Try using Opensky, UAV Forecast or Airmap to check possible locations.

 

[Crouching Leopard]

I think you are reading too much into the "rules". What is written on websites and the actual regulations are 2 different things. I fly in lots of places within the rules. You can fly in almost all the places you have listed, just not loiter over someones home, fly directly over people, vehicles in motion etc. You can fly over parks, including national parks, just not take off or land from them so, take off, walk through the park, and land outside the park. Not saying you should, but you can.

You can fly over a local sports event, just not over people. Busy beach, fly from a quiet spot, over the water and land in a quiet spot. Too busy? don't fly

Use the CASA OpenSky app. If it says you can fly, stick within the normal safety rules and fly safely.
I find most people actually enjoy seeing a drone and don't care as long as you don't invade their space. If they ask questions, offer them a go.

Don't read council websites regarding drones. Most of it is rubbish written by people who don't know the rules
I do lots of flying legally, including Philip Island (not the nature reserves), Mount Elizah Glen, Waverley, Knox, Pakenham, side roads near bushland at a height that does no bother wildlife or stock.

It's not the precious greenies for parks, it's the park authorities, but they have no authority 1 metre outside the park, or above the height of the tallest tree.

Also, the rules regarding parks in Australia is dependant on the state.

Police have no authority to intervene, only report to CASA. Local law officers are the same.
Only CASA can enforce flying regs, no one else. And if there isn't an accident or incident, basically they aren't bothered as they don't want to get tied up in drone stuff. Even a registered pilot finds it hard to get CASA to approve commercial flights because Drones are at the bottom of the pile as far as they are concerned.

As soon as you take even the most basic licence, many of those rules disappear.ie the distance for people goes down to 15 metres.

CASAs basic concern is that there are no accidents either from aircraft collision or a drone falling out of the sky.

Finally don't draw attention to yourself
Maintain your drone and dont ignore warning messages in the apps
I fly almost every day and have never had a problem

You have to make your own decision, but I fly with a licenced pilot and they all say the same thing. The rules as displayed on the website etc don't tell the whole truth, they are there just to deter people from buying a drone.

Happy flying

 

[Sminagos]

Just not loiter over someones home,

Good post, but isn't loitering over someone's home and passing over their home breaking the same law? Flying over a populous area?

 

[Meta4]

So practically if I interpret CASA's rules, you cannot recreationally fly a Mavic mini in Austalia;
... That leaves, the outback and deserted beaches 5hrs away from any city.

Actually that leaves about 98.5% of the country available for flying.
Perhaps you should try travelling more than 5 km from the centre of your capital city?
Australia is one of the least populated countries on earth and has a vast area available for flying.

So, what is the point!!

It's a very big country.
Try looking on Google Earth to see what's available close to you.

 

[bushie]

Depends on where you live. When I was living in inner city Sydney, I knew there were very few places within a couple of hours driving where I could fly. Now I am just south of Perth, WA in the suburbs not far from the coast, and there are many more places I can fly within 20-30 mins driving distance. I mainly fly from the beaches, but can also fly over the Swan river in places, and even over some local parks within the CASA rules.

Try using Opensky, UAV Forecast or Airmap to check possible locations.

WE are very lucky here in WA. I live a little further south than you and have almost limitless places to fly.

Some thing to be aware of. The software available tends to show a lot of areas of restricted airspace that is in reality only occasionally activated by Notam. Learn how to use the info CASA publishes and a lot of areas open up.

 

[ICHOTT]

Go for it, better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission, you will have plenty of opportunity to fly, it doesn’t need to be over people, house, roads etc, neither does it need to be more than 2/300 metres away, leave that for when your experienced and are in more open space.

 

[spsphotos]

I wish I had my drone when I visited Sydney couple years ago. But I did take 1000+ pictures anyway...lol. I love visiting there.

 

[Sminagos]

. You can fly over parks, including national parks, just not take off or land from them so, take off, walk through the park, and land outside the park. Not saying you should, but you can.

I still can't find where you can fly in a national park - even if you take off and land outside the park. Here is an extract from Parks SA. I think you are confusing the rules with manned aircraft and not Remotely Piloted Aircraft.

I see that it's an offence to fly 'in' a national park (without a permit) seems black and white to me. Would appreciate it if you can point me towards a reference where it's permitted without a permit?

Drones (remotely piloted aircraft)​

It is an offence to fly drones (remotely piloted aircraft) in South Australia's national parks, reserves and marine park restricted access zones without a permit. Permits are considered for scientific research and commercial filming."

 

[Crouching Leopard]

CASA considers UAVs to be no different from aircraft when it comes to flying over a national park or state reserve. Any height above maximum tree height is considered an "easement" to national park rules. Park rangers have no authority even 1 metre outside the park and have no authority over navigable airspace, and very little, if any authority at less than maximum tree height, except if you are disturbing wildlife at lower than that altitude ie flying close to ducks on a lake.

"In", means from the parkland. Separate "in" from"over. National park landspace does not translate to airspace. As far as CASA are concerned. a UAV is no different to a manned aircraft in that respect (helicopters not included). Parks cannot control aircraft from flying over their land. Only CASA can do that.

Some examples
See this link What are Australia's drone laws? | Remote Aviation Australia

Also:


Also


From the same site

Introduction to Australia’s drone laws​

"Whether you agree or not with the legislation, drones (not matter the size or use) are considered as “aircraft” as per Australia’s Civil Aviation Act. The Act defines aircraft as “any machine or craft that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface”. Thus, all drones are governed by the regulations set out by CASA (the Civil Aviation Safety Authority). Most of the legislation that affects drones is provided in Civil Aviation Safety Regulation (CASR) Part 101. The major rules are":

If you want further details, spend a few days researching the actual aviation laws, as I did. You will find a drone flying aviation lawyer who goes into great depths regarding air easements, park limits of authority, "friendly neighbour" policies, successful prosecutions in Australia (0 as of a year ago) against drone pilots etc.

It is very time-consuming but worth it. Sorry, I don't have that link anymore as I did it over a year ago and don't need it now anyway as I fly as second cameraman to a fully licenced drone pilot/helicopter pilot who also runs an aerial media company specialising in state and federal government promotion videos and deals with CASA almost every week. In their own words (not a website) "Info on park, local government etc websites is often written by people who don't know the rules to deter recreational flyers from flying over their land, but have no basis in aviation law." The same goes for council sports grounds. They can stop you from taking off from their land, but can't stop you flying over their land (minimum tree height a possible exception). They have authority over the land only, not the navigable airways above it ie nothing above maximum tree height. Most of these websites just copy and paste from others without research.

NB
Thats exactly what CASA, as well as the UKs CAA and many others did. They copied from the US FAA, added a bit of local stuff and websited it.

As a final example of deliberate or otherwise misinformation, Monash city council has on their website a statement that drones can take off from their parks, but not fly higher than 65 metres. This is not the case. Only CASA can set drone height limits, and that is 120 metres in controlled airspace (basically cities but can include other areas). Check the CASA opensky app before you fly anywhere.

 

[Crouching Leopard]

Good post, but isn't loitering over someone's home and passing over their home breaking the same law? Flying over a populous area?

I guess it depends on how close you get and the "populous area" itself. If you stay 30 metres away then I don't believe so. ie fly past the house as opposed to hovering in front of it, or flying down the centre of an empty street as opposed to flying down a street filled with parked cars.

Once you get to the reoc licence level, many "rules" disappear.

From the remote aviation website

11. No flying over “populous areas”​

When considering drone operations over populated areas, the safety of people and property below is paramount. The term ‘populous area’ is regularly used in the legislation, with the definition being:

“An area is a populous area in relation to the operation of an unmanned aircraft or rocket if the area has a sufficient density of population for some aspect of the operation, or some event that might happen during the operation (in particular, a fault in, or failure of, the aircraft) to pose an unreasonable risk to the life, safety or property of somebody who is in the area but is not connected with the operation.”

It is important to note that it refers to posing an unreasonable risk to “life, safety or property of somebody”. Therefore, not only does the term populous area consider the possibility of a person becoming injured (or killed), it also considers the likelihood of damaging property, such as houses, cars and infrastructure.

Some might view this meaning as ambiguous, and different people may have different views on the meaning of phrases like “sufficient density of population” and “pose an unreasonable risk”. However, CASA has attempted to provide clarification of drone laws by providing further examples in their advisory circulars:

“If a rotorcraft-type RPA (drone) is flying at a relatively low height (i.e. 100 feet) directly above a single person not associated with the flight, it may be considered to be operating in a populous area due to the fact that a complete loss of power may cause injury to the person below. Similarly, an RPA (drone) operating over a large public gathering at a high level (i.e. 400 feet) would pose an unreasonable risk to the safety of the people below because, in the event of a systems failure, it may not be able to clear the area. This interpretation would apply equally to higher flight over built-up areas where there is a greater risk to property.”

While these clarification statements from CASA are guidance only (and are not law), it is strongly recommended you follow CASA’s advice to ensure you are complying with the regulations. Most drones will not be able to glide clear of the area in the event of a failure.

Either way, if you damage someone's roof tile or car, you will have to cop the abuse from the owner and pay, but I doubt CASA will come knocking on your door.

 

[bushie]

In WA you are allowed to fly in National Parks provided you comply with CASA regs. As for local parks etc, many local authorities have regulations prohibiting flight from these. Interestingly my local authority (Mandurah City Council) was intending to make such a reg., but had legal advise that they did not have the power to do so. Presumably this applies to all local authorities in WA.

 

[Sminagos]

Thanks Guys

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Here is an extract from Parks SA.

Old-ish post, but if you're still hanging out here . . .

Looks like you're in SA then, makes it easy to say not allowed to be in a park and fly, that is take off, operate the drone on parks land, or land it.
You can fly from outside the boundary and over any of the parks regions.
This is handy for places like Hallett Cove Cons Pk, you can find places just outside the boundary along the cliff line, or take it down to the rocks via the numerous staircases . . . though when I fly down there I take it to sea, usually for sunsets, don't usually bother over the park, which is pretty ordinary in most parts (Sugarloaf excepted, maybe the dam area.

But further, you should be sticking to the VLOS rule, which limits how far you can fly away and over a park.
In some cases it pretty much makes flying over NPs, and CPs basically a moot point.

Depending where you are located though, there'd be many places to fly.
As Meta suggested, get onto Google maps sat view, and scroll around . . . check one of the CASA apps in conjunction to see if ok to fly there . . . check if there might be some other reason you can't fly there (could be city regs, sports game on at the oval, people in a park on a busy Saturday, busy beach) so planning the time right is important too.