Why does the dome base take longer to charge the MM????

[vindibona1]

I got the MM package with 2 batteries and the dome charger bass for $369. Seemed like a good deal considering I didn't need everything in the flymore for $500 and the battery was worth $45 ala carte. The dome base charger is pretty, but it seems like it takes twice as long to charge compared to plugging the MM in direct with the same wall wart 5v/3.1Amp. My experience from the same battery condition was about 2 hours. Tonight I've had it in the dome for at least 4 hrs and it's not charged yet.

In a way I'm glad I didn't get the flymore with the series charging (three bank but one-at-a-time) pack. I think if one of those adapters didn't have to come from China, expected delivery mid-August, I'd get one of those and be able to charge both batteries simultaneously, only slowed down by the power output of the wall charger. Anyone using one of those adapters? I know I could spend $40 for a Yx 4 port plus charger, but I've only got two batteries.

Any thoughts? Different experiences?

 

[lannes]

For fast charging the MM batteries require a minimum of 18w, if your using the power adapter that came with the Fly More combo that should be able to do it.

 

[RogerDH]

For fast charging the MM batteries require a minimum of 18v, if your using the power adapter that came with the Fly More combo that should be able to do it.

18 watts, not volts, and vindabona1 is not using the Fly More charger. I don't know which the Mini prefers, but you can get 18W quick charge from 6V @ 3A, 9V@2A, or 12V @ 1.5A. I don't know for sure, but I believe that the charger shipped with dome base is QC 3.0 compliant, so if that charger is being used in both cases, I don't know why the charging time should be slower for the dome, unless the dome isn't QC 3.0.

EDIT: I see the problem now: That package doesn't come with a wall charger, so vindibona1, you need to get a QC 3.0 wall charger if you want quick charge.

 

[vindibona1]

18 watts, not volts, and vindabona1 is not using the Fly More charger. I don't know which the Mini prefers, but you can get 18W quick charge from 6V @ 3A, 9V@2A, or 12V @ 1.5A. I don't know for sure, but I believe that the charger shipped with dome base is QC 3.0 compliant, so if that charger is being used in both cases, I don't know why the charging time should be slower for the dome, unless the dome isn't QC 3.0.

EDIT: I see the problem now: That package doesn't come with a wall charger, so vindibona1, you need to get a QC 3.0 wall charger if you want quick charge.

I am charging with a QC3.0 compliant charger. 3.1 Amps translates into 15watts. I suppose I could order another charger. But I don't think it's the wall wart. I had the Mini in the base for 6 hours yesterday and it didn't fully charge the battery yet my experience charging the Mini battery directly through the drone, from the same battery condition, has been less than 2 hours. I've ordered a 24 watt QC3 compliant wall wart which should be here on Monday and I'll try that. But I suspect that it's the base. One of the reasons I ordered the Costco package rather than the flymore package is because the charger in the flymore charges in series rather than in parallel. One would think that DJI could have done better with their premium package with little added cost.

This is what I've been using the charge the batteries... QC3 charger from Amazon

 

[RogerDH]

...
This is what I've been using the charge the batteries... QC3 charger from Amazon

It looks like only the top port is QC 3.0 -- are you sure that's the one you used in both cases? If so, then it does look like a problem with the base -- I wouldn't expect it to take 6 hours to charge even if it was using 5V @ 1A.

 

[vindibona1]

It looks like only the top port is QC 3.0 -- are you sure that's the one you used in both cases? If so, then it does look like a problem with the base -- I wouldn't expect it to take 6 hours to charge even if it was using 5V @ 1A.

Interesting... I thought they were all QC3... I'll try charging from the top port and see if that makes a difference. But evern so, 3.1A should be faster- and are when plugged into the drone directly.

 

[vindibona1]

It looks like only the top port is QC 3.0 -- are you sure that's the one you used in both cases? If so, then it does look like a problem with the base -- I wouldn't expect it to take 6 hours to charge even if it was using 5V @ 1A.

I admit, I am not versed on the electrical technicalities, and have no idea how QC 3.0 works differently from standard charging. But have taken your word for it and ordered a different charger. I'm still a little perplexed, but am in a better situation but would like to understand so there is no more confusion. Below is a combined image of the charger I had been using. I did not use the orange port, not realizing that THAT one might have provided quicker charging,

But in the meantime I ordered this charger 24w QC 3.0 charger from Amazon and received it yesterday. FWIW, the charger feels heftier than others I own, weighing 84 grams. The 4 port charger weighs 67 grams, and for comparison the charger from my iPad weighs 58 grams.

I flew my MM until battery warning on both batteries so they would both require a full charge. In fact with one that I got a "battery low- will RTH in 8 seconds" warning.

When I returned home I wanted to see how fast I could get the batteries to charge. The charger I purchased has a coded indicator light: Blue for standard charge. Green for "quick charge" mode. I thought I'd start by plugging direct into the Mini. The blue light came on, and I wondered if I had the wrong cable or the charger didn't work. I had no idea what was wrong. Could it be that only the base has the QC3 ability? And so I installed the Mini inside the domed base... and the green light came on the charger.

I timed how long it took to get a full charge... 90 minutes. I changed batteries, charging the second depleted batter. Again, 90 minutes. Three hours total for two batteries. But because of the indicator light issure- remaing blue when plugged direct into the Mini...
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE MINI ITSELF ISN'T QC3.0- ONLY THE BASE???

So how do WATTS come into play, when the power output seems to be limited nominially to 3Amps?

Below are two images, first, the multi-port charger that I purchased, follwed by an image of the new QC 3.0 charger rated at 24 watts. Could somebody please help me sort this all out so I understand better?

 

[RogerDH]

I admit, I am not versed on the electrical technicalities, and have no idea how QC 3.0 works differently from standard charging. But have taken your word for it and ordered a different charger. I'm still a little perplexed, but am in a better situation but would like to understand so there is no more confusion. Below is a combined image of the charger I had been using. I did not use the orange port, not realizing that THAT one might have provided quicker charging,

But in the meantime I ordered this charger 24w QC 3.0 charger from Amazon and received it yesterday. FWIW, the charger feels heftier than others I own, weighing 84 grams. The 4 port charger weighs 67 grams, and for comparison the charger from my iPad weighs 58 grams.

I flew my MM until battery warning on both batteries so they would both require a full charge. In fact with one that I got a "battery low- will RTH in 8 seconds" warning.

When I returned home I wanted to see how fast I could get the batteries to charge. The charger I purchased has a coded indicator light: Blue for standard charge. Green for "quick charge" mode. I thought I'd start by plugging direct into the Mini. The blue light came on, and I wondered if I had the wrong cable or the charger didn't work. I had no idea what was wrong. Could it be that only the base has the QC3 ability? And so I installed the Mini inside the domed base... and the green light came on the charger.

I timed how long it took to get a full charge... 90 minutes. I changed batteries, charging the second depleted batter. Again, 90 minutes. Three hours total for two batteries. But because of the indicator light issure- remaing blue when plugged direct into the Mini...
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE MINI ITSELF ISN'T QC3.0- ONLY THE BASE???

So how do WATTS come into play, when the power output seems to be limited nominially to 3Amps?

Below are two images, first, the multi-port charger that I purchased, follwed by an image of the new QC 3.0 charger rated at 24 watts. Could somebody please help me sort this all out so I understand better?

I'm not claiming any special expertise, but: QC 3.0 allows a "smart" charger and device to negotiate a charging voltage and amperage, and the wattage is just the product of the two numbers. It's this negotiation that allows a quicker charge: A standard USB charger is nominally 5V and not variable, and while a charger might be capable of supplying 3A, the actual amperage drawn (and thus the charge time) will depend on the device's charging circuitry. A QC 3.0 charger plugged into a compliant device, on the other hand, can negotiate a higher voltage if the device says it can accept it, so 6V @ 3A, 9V @ 2A, or 12V @ 1.5A will all result in 18W charging (and again, I don't know which the base prefers).

I haven't tried it, but it does sound like the Mini itself might not be QC 3.0 compliant. I'm just guessing, but it may have charged faster than the base with a non-QC charging port because it accepted a higher amperage at 5V than the base does.

 

[vindibona1]

I'm not claiming any special expertise, but: QC 3.0 allows a "smart" charger and device to negotiate a charging voltage and amperage, and the wattage is just the product of the two numbers. It's this negotiation that allows a quicker charge: A standard USB charger is nominally 5V and not variable, and while a charger might be capable of supplying 3A, the actual amperage drawn (and thus the charge time) will depend on the device's charging circuitry. A QC 3.0 charger plugged into a compliant device, on the other hand, can negotiate a higher voltage if the device says it can accept it, so 6V @ 3A, 9V @ 2A, or 12V @ 1.5A will all result in 18W charging (and again, I don't know which the base prefers).

I haven't tried it, but it does sound like the Mini itself might not be QC 3.0 compliant. I'm just guessing, but it may have charged faster than the base with a non-QC charging port because it accepted a higher amperage at 5V than the base does.

I appreciate the explanation even though it might not be fully complete.
My experience in this past week is that a standard charger can charge the Mini directly in about 2 hours or so. The standard charger, hooked up to the (dome) base charger take longer- up to 6 hours in my experience. However the QC charger @ 24 watts, however that works, cuts the charge time in the base to 90 minutes. As I only have two batteries and won't usually see a need to rush to recharge and get back out, am fine at the moment. I would like to get one of those adapters that snaps onto the battery so, like the charger from the flymore kit, I don't have to wait for sequential charging.

 

[RogerDH]

I appreciate the explanation even though it might not be fully complete.
My experience in this past week is that a standard charger can charge the Mini directly in about 2 hours or so. The standard charger, hooked up to the (dome) base charger take longer- up to 6 hours in my experience. However the QC charger @ 24 watts, however that works, cuts the charge time in the base to 90 minutes. As I only have two batteries and won't usually see a need to rush to recharge and get back out, am fine at the moment. I would like to get one of those adapters that snaps onto the battery so, like the charger from the flymore kit, I don't have to wait for sequential charging.

Well, if the Mini allowed a 5V charge from a standard charger at something near 3A, that would be 15W, which should be fast but not as fast as 18W. If the base limited the power to 1A, say, that would only be 5W and should take about three times longer to charge.

 

[vindibona1]

Well, if the Mini allowed a 5V charge from a standard charger at something near 3A, that would be 15W, which should be fast but not as fast as 18W. If the base limited the power to 1A, say, that would only be 5W and should take about three times longer to charge.

And here's the partly confusing part. The DJI charger that DJI provides in their flymore kit (and separately) touts 18 watts. Ok... I recognize the conversion of amps to watts generally being a factor of 3x. But if the charger is a QC3 charger and has a 5v/3A output what difference does it make if the charger is 15w, 18w (DJI) or even 24w (the one I bought) as long as they are QC 3.0 rated? Wouldn't the 3A output be the limiting factor within them all?

DJI charger specs:
DJI Battery Charger Link
Model: QC18-CN
Input: 100-240 V~50/60 Hz, 0.5A
Output: 5V/3A 9V/2A 12V/1.5A
Charging time for one Mavic Mini Intelligent Flight Battery: About 90 minutes. (depending on temperature).
Charging Time for One Mavic Mini Intelligent Flight Battery (1100mAh): About 50 minutes (depending on temperature). [Mavic Mini 11mAh battery????].

 

[RogerDH]

And here's the partly confusing part. The DJI charger that DJI provides in their flymore kit (and separately) touts 18 watts. Ok... I recognize the conversion of amps to watts generally being a factor of 3x. But if the charger is a QC3 charger and has a 5v/3A output what difference does it make if the charger is 15w, 18w (DJI) or even 24w (the one I bought) as long as they are QC 3.0 rated? Wouldn't the 3A output be the limiting factor within them all?

DJI charger specs:
DJI Battery Charger Link
Model: QC18-CN
Input: 100-240 V~50/60 Hz, 0.5A
Output: 5V/3A 9V/2A 12V/1.5A
Charging time for one Mavic Mini Intelligent Flight Battery: About 90 minutes. (depending on temperature).
Charging Time for One Mavic Mini Intelligent Flight Battery (1100mAh): About 50 minutes (depending on temperature). [Mavic Mini 11mAh battery????].

Again, QC 3.0 is more than a wattage rating; it's a protocol where a smart charger and a smart device negotiate what the charging voltage will be. The charger controls the voltage and, at any given voltage, there's a limit to how many amps of current it can supply, but the electronics of the device will determine how much current is actually drawn while charging. And again, the wattage -- the effective power -- is simply the product of those two numbers. The intent of the QC protocol is to safely maximize the power transfer by setting a voltage higher than 5V, depending on what the device can safely and efficiently use.

So a "dumb" 5V charger may be capable of supplying 3 amps of current, but it can't force a device to use that much current. If the "dumb" ports on your charger don't negotiate more than 5V, then it's not a QC quick charge, and how quickly the device charges is just dependent on the electronics of the device.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

The attached are photos of the current and voltage being sent by the flymore charger to the flymore battery block through two different BLACK cables, the grey cable and 'ammeter' were the same. It would seem not even all 'charging only' cables are the same. The result were repeatable so not flukes.
Personally, I dislike the idea of using the micro USB connection on the drone any more than is absolutely necessary. If it gets damaged whilst being used as a charging connection then you possible lose the ability to connect the drone to a PC etc. but "to each their own".

 

[vindibona1]

The attached are photos of the current and voltage being sent by the flymore charger to the flymore battery block through two different BLACK cables, the grey cable and 'ammeter' were the same. It would seem not even all 'charging only' cables are the same. The result were repeatable so not flukes.
Personally, I dislike the idea of using the micro USB connection on the drone any more than is absolutely necessary. If it gets damaged whilst being used as a charging connection then you possible lose the ability to connect the drone to a PC etc. but "to each their own".

I'm not sure how to read the data, so if you could walk me through it, please? I think it's handy to have one of those devices. I didn't know exactly how to measure USB current.

"Connect the drone to a PC"??? I didn't know you could do such a thing. How would one use that ability?

 

[RogerDH]

The attached are photos of the current and voltage being sent by the flymore charger to the flymore battery block through two different BLACK cables, the grey cable and 'ammeter' were the same. It would seem not even all 'charging only' cables are the same. The result were repeatable so not flukes.
Personally, I dislike the idea of using the micro USB connection on the drone any more than is absolutely necessary. If it gets damaged whilst being used as a charging connection then you possible lose the ability to connect the drone to a PC etc. but "to each their own".

The one on the left is using QC -- it's apparently negotiated a nominal 12V/1.5A charge -- while the one on the right is not QC -- it's using a nominal 5V and only drawing 0.32A, which will take a very long time to charge.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

see attached, for clarity the difference in charging voltage and current of post #13 came about when I changed the black cables, everything else remained the same. The results were repeatable so not flukes

 

[vindibona1]

@PhiliusFoggg Thanks. I just ordered one of them gizmos. Should be here in a week. It will be interesting to discover what works best.

Now the question becomes, based on your readings, would 11.4v @ 1.5 Amps be (nominally) fasters/slower/different than 5v @ 3 Amps?

 

[Deleted member 103366]

I can't answer that with any thing other than "I think"s, so that's one for others

 

[Deleted member 103366]

"Connect the drone to a PC"??? I didn't know you could do such a thing. How would one use that ability?

Sorry foRgot to answer this bit, you can download the images stored on the mSD card but again you would be using the connection unnecessarily where there is a handy alternative available i.e. and from habit, I just remove the mSD card and put it in a reader which is attached to the computer.

The thing I use it for is getting, via "DJI assistant 2 for mavic", a copy of the flight logs that are stored on the drone, I may not be able to do anything with them as they are apparently encripted but at least I have a copy stored on my computer just incase some one cracks the encryption.
It looks like you can also do updates via the assistant but I haven't done any so "don't know owt about that"

 

[vindibona1]

Sorry foRgot to answer this bit, you can download the images stored on the mSD card...

The thing I use it for is getting, via "DJI assistant 2 for mavic", a copy of the flight logs that are stored on the drone,

Thanks. I have a very fast multi slot card reader to download to my PC. The one I have can also copy from card to card. I've been doing digital photography for 20 years so downloading immediately is habitual. I don't think it would hurt to periodically download my flight logs. Thanks again.