Interesting interaction with police today

[minipro3]

What was the purpose of your flight?

The purpose is stated in my post

 

[FlySkyJumper]

For weeks I've been trying to get access to a lake where I want make my first edited video. I'm calling it " Mansions on a Lake ". It's a beautiful, fairly large lake with many Multi million $$$ dollar mansions all around the lake. There are several parks around the lake but not quite close enough to get my footage. I got permission to fly from one Park, but lake is too far out. I finally found an orange orchard next to the lake around a bend in the road not visible by any houses, and plenty of space to stop on the side of the road. I've been nervous to stop there and send out the drone fearing someone will call police and report me. This morning I saw a sheriffs department vehicle parked five minutes from that orchard and figured I'd take a chance and have a conversation with him. I explained my situation and told him I wanted to take a video of the lake and wanted to park next to the orchard to fly out and asked him what his thoughts were on that. He asked me if I had a license, I said no, drone is under 250 grams and just needed a trust certificate , which I have. He then asked me if I fly above four hundred feet, and I said I always stay about 120 feet while flying. I told him I was just going to hand launch out my window, fly over the Lake for 10 minutes at a time and then leave. He then said. " YOUR GOOD ".
I then said, there are lot of wealthy homes around there and someone might call on me and then you guys are gonna show up - what happens then. He said yeah they probably will call and we will show up, but you won't have a problem as long as you're being respectful and not doing anything stupid. He then said he's been flying drones since he was 15 years old and has a mavic 3 and used to be on the drone team for the police department, they have three $10,000 drones and fly them every day.
So starts the video

Great interaction, but you weren't doing anything illegal. You don't need permission to launch from where you were either. Meaning, everything you explained you were doing and every place you were mentioning is 100% legal to fly. You can fly around homes etc., as long as you're not being a creeper and trying to look into people's windows or literally flying over someone say laying out at their pool and hovering, that sort of thing.
It's always good to have law enforcement on your side and communication. That never hurts. The fact is most law enforcement have zero clue of the regs along with public. So as long as you know them and can even show them if needed, you're good to go! Either way, you would be legal regardless in the circumstances your described.

 

[FlySkyJumper]

I think that Part 107 is not necessary if you are doing it for free but I welcome input if I misunderstand. During the course of obtaining my Part 107, I had to reach out a couple of times for guidance as I am a Part 61 private pilot and the path is different. One of the guys I spoke with spoke of reaching out to emergency services for work but advised that I should be prepared to be called upon 24/7 should I choose to do that. I'd like to hear how you make out on it.

If it's not for profit in any way shape or form part 107 is not necessary! However, if you're going to be doing any sort of flight that requires even a tiny bit of skill and knowledge such as doing flights for search and rescue, one should still get part 107. In my opinion, if you fly a lot even just for recreational purposes you should get your part 107. It helps you be a better pilot overall and it's seriously not difficult to get. Not to mention it's cheap! The TRUST certificate is a total JOKE. It's not enough for a lot of people.

 

[FlySkyJumper]

Anything you do for anybody else regardless if it is volunteer or paid has to be under part 107 is my interpretation. I feel I am safe whatever the case.

Re-read the part 107 regs. If it's not for profit in any way shape or form, part 107 is not required.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

Re-read the part 107 regs. If it's not for profit in any way shape or form, part 107 is not required.

I read it and have my questions on it. Here is an FAA 'tool' to determine where you stand as a drone pilot What Kind of Drone Flyer Are You? | Federal Aviation Administration. The term used in that test is 'Non-Profit work' and it is in the third question down. Non-profit looks to me like it applies to organizations and entities Nonprofit Organization (NPO): Definition and Example. Once again, I asked a retired FAA fed that I know and he rolled his eyes at the concern.

I have not read the penalties for infractions but have heard (or seen typed) that they are pretty stiff. But I really don't believe that the FAA cares if one of us takes arial videos of parties at our friends' houses and gives them to the host. Or anyone else at the party for that matter. As a private pilot, I have attended quite a few FAA seminars regarding private aircraft and I can tell you that the FAA is not out looking to pass out fines like your local yokel police officer is, they are more inclined to educate people who cross the line. For example: At a recent seminar, they told us that nobody who has breached the POTUS TFR has gotten fined or lost their license. Some of them had to take a class, if their skulls were too thick to get the message.

 

[Torque]

I read it and have my questions on it. Here is an FAA 'tool' to determine where you stand as a drone pilot What Kind of Drone Flyer Are You? | Federal Aviation Administration. The term used in that test is 'Non-Profit work' and it is in the third question down. Non-profit looks to me like it applies to organizations and entities Nonprofit Organization (NPO): Definition and Example. Once again, I asked a retired FAA fed that I know and he rolled his eyes at the concern.

I have not read the penalties for infractions but have heard (or seen typed) that they are pretty stiff. But I really don't believe that the FAA cares if one of us takes arial videos of parties at our friends' houses and gives them to the host. Or anyone else at the party for that matter. As a private pilot, I have attended quite a few FAA seminars regarding private aircraft and I can tell you that the FAA is not out looking to pass out fines like your local yokel police officer is, they are more inclined to educate people who cross the line. For example: At a recent seminar, they told us that nobody who has breached the POTUS TFR has gotten fined or lost their license. Some of them had to take a class, if their skulls were too thick to get the message.

I believe you're right, the FAA will educate you before they fine you, unless your flight was clearly blatant disregard for the law and safety of the public (flying over a packed stadium, etc). If you continue to repeat the infractions, you will be fined. Continue to ignore and the fines increase. The YouTube drone pilot from PA for example is facing some very hefty fines for his continued BVLOS flights.

 

[minipro3]

Great interaction, but you weren't doing anything illegal. You don't need permission to launch from where you were either. Meaning, everything you explained you were doing and every place you were mentioning is 100% legal to fly. You can fly around homes etc., as long as you're not being a creeper and trying to look into people's windows or literally flying over someone say laying out at their pool and hovering, that sort of thing.
It's always good to have law enforcement on your side and communication. That never hurts. The fact is most law enforcement have zero clue of the regs along with public. So as long as you know them and can even show them if needed, you're good to go! Either way, you would be legal regardless in the circumstances your described.

I wasn't sure if taking off from the side of a public road was an infraction or not, that was my issue. Is there any documentation that can be shown to Law Enforcement that would show them that I was legal doing so, for the ones that are not informed. It's difficult for Law Enforcement to know and understand all the laws and details of every situation they come across. It's simply too much info, so it's a good thing when we can help educate them with facts.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

I wasn't sure if taking off from the side of a public road was an infraction or not, that was my issue. Is there any documentation that can be shown to Law Enforcement that would show them that I was legal doing so, for the ones that are not informed. It's difficult for Law Enforcement to know and understand all the laws and details of every situation they come across. It's simply too much info, so it's a good thing when we can help educate them with facts.

If they have an issue with it, they're the ones who need to have a code and ss's violated.

 

[seejake]

For weeks I've been trying to get access to a lake where I want make my first edited video. I'm calling it " Mansions on a Lake ". It's a beautiful, fairly large lake with many Multi million $$$ dollar mansions all around the lake. There are several parks around the lake but not quite close enough to get my footage. I got permission to fly from one Park, but lake is too far out. I finally found an orange orchard next to the lake around a bend in the road not visible by any houses, and plenty of space to stop on the side of the road. I've been nervous to stop there and send out the drone fearing someone will call police and report me. This morning I saw a sheriffs department vehicle parked five minutes from that orchard and figured I'd take a chance and have a conversation with him. I explained my situation and told him I wanted to take a video of the lake and wanted to park next to the orchard to fly out and asked him what his thoughts were on that. He asked me if I had a license, I said no, drone is under 250 grams and just needed a trust certificate , which I have. He then asked me if I fly above four hundred feet, and I said I always stay about 120 feet while flying. I told him I was just going to hand launch out my window, fly over the Lake for 10 minutes at a time and then leave. He then said. " YOUR GOOD ".
I then said, there are lot of wealthy homes around there and someone might call on me and then you guys are gonna show up - what happens then. He said yeah they probably will call and we will show up, but you won't have a problem as long as you're being respectful and not doing anything stupid. He then said he's been flying drones since he was 15 years old and has a mavic 3 and used to be on the drone team for the police department, they have three $10,000 drones and fly them every day.
So starts the video

That's very cool. Every interaction I've ever had with the police have been positive. Even one police officer started litterally telling at me and told me to bring it down. I asked him was I doing something wrong he said yes you have to have a license from the faa to fly one of those. I said I do have a license he said from the faa. I said yes. And he said let me see it. I said me stop what I'm doing and bring it down because i need to be paying attention to the drone by this time 3 other police have shown up. I was like oh hell I'm going to get a beat down. So I brought the drone down and I showed him my license the other police officers were schooling him they said the dude is ok. The original police officer appoligized to me said he was sorry for all of this. I Said its no problem. But just remember in the future you are totally within your rights To ask me to see any documents but you need to make sure that you leave them alone long enough to control the drone. Because if that drone goes out of control while you're distracting the pilot you could be held liable for whatever happens. I've since seen that same police officer while i was flying at another time. He just waved and kept on going

 

[seejake]

I wasn't sure if taking off from the side of a public road was an infraction or not, that was my issue. Is there any documentation that can be shown to Law Enforcement that would show them that I was legal doing so, for the ones that are not informed. It's difficult for Law Enforcement to know and understand all the laws and details of every situation they come across. It's simply too much info, so it's a good thing when we can help educate them with facts.

I keep a copy of the rules in my case just in case So i can pull it out and show them the rules if i get into a situation like that. It's alot if reading but i have the important parts highlighted. I actially have never had to pull it out since I've been keeping it in my case but I had one incident that scared the crap out of me. It ended very well but after that incident i was like I'm keeping a copy with me in case this happens again. Thankfully it hasn't happened again. Usually my run ins with the police are really positive. Just last week I was flying and three police showed up at the park and litterally parked right in front of me and watched me fly the whole time. I was so scared. I asked them did someone call and report me. They were like no we take our lunch here everyday. I was like oh. That watched me and didn't say anything else

 

[MS Coast]

Re-read the part 107 regs. If it's not for profit in any way shape or form, part 107 is not required.

That's not correct. Flying under 44809 I was not allowed to donate photos to a not-for-profit group. I had the get the Part 107 ticket to do that legally.

Operation under Part 107 is required in all cases where the requirements in 44809 are not met. Part 107 is the basic rule. Recreational operation under 44809 is an exception.

49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft​

(a)In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:
(1) The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes.
Continues.

49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[minipro3]

I keep a copy of the rules in my case just in case So i can pull it out and show them the rules if i get into a situation like that. It's alot if reading but i have the important parts highlighted. I actially have never had to pull it out since I've been keeping it in my case but I had one incident that scared the crap out of me. It ended very well but after that incident i was like I'm keeping a copy with me in case this happens again. Thankfully it hasn't happened again. Usually my run ins with the police are really positive. Just last week I was flying and three police showed up at the park and litterally parked right in front of me and watched me fly the whole time. I was so scared. I asked them did someone call and report me. They were like no we take our lunch here everyday. I was like oh. That watched me and didn't say anything else

What rules are you referring to that you keep with you ?

 

[zen20009]

If you're intention was to post the footage on YouTube and you are monetizing the video/channel then you need a part 107 certificate.

 

[Arkarian]

I have a cop buddy I fly with. He runs the drone program for the sherrifs office. He said most cops do not have time for the Karens in the world. As long as you are following the rules you are good.
Even with drones sub 250g if you make a video and monetize your youtube or make money from the flight, you have to have part 107 or you could potentially be fined.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

Have there been any reports of anyone being fined for not having Part 107 and doing work for pay?

 

[MA2 317]

Have there been any reports of anyone being fined for not having Part 107 and doing work for pay?

I did a quick Google search....

FAA Has Busted Multiple Drone Flyers. Here Are The Expensive Results.

We reviewed FAA enforcement actions from 2012-2020. Topping the list: one pilot received a whopping fine of $1.9 million based upon a series of commercial drone flights over a period of time.

www.forbes.com

70 FAA Enforcement Actions Against Drone Pilots Revealed [2012-2020]

Insights into the FAA's history of prosecuting drone pilots (which regulations, how much the penalty, did anyone lose their pilot license, where, etc.)

jrupprechtlaw.com

The articles cover multiple cases but there's one instance of a pilot being fined for real estate work and not having the Part 107.

.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1538595" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I did a quick Google search....

FAA Has Busted Multiple Drone Flyers. Here Are The Expensive Results.

We reviewed FAA enforcement actions from 2012-2020. Topping the list: one pilot received a whopping fine of $1.9 million based upon a series of commercial drone flights over a period of time.

www.forbes.com

70 FAA Enforcement Actions Against Drone Pilots Revealed [2012-2020]

Insights into the FAA's history of prosecuting drone pilots (which regulations, how much the penalty, did anyone lose their pilot license, where, etc.)

jrupprechtlaw.com

The articles cover multiple cases but there's one instance of a pilot being fined for real estate work and not having the Part 107.

.

There are some pretty stiff fines there. It's interesting that they all seem to have crashes as a common denominator.

And I wasn't able to find anything on it but my buddies at the airport claim that there was a drone/helicopter crash up in the Hudson Valley not too long ago.

 

[Arkarian]

I think that Part 107 is not necessary if you are doing it for free but I welcome input if I misunderstand. During the course of obtaining my Part 107, I had to reach out a couple of times for guidance as I am a Part 61 private pilot and the path is different. One of the guys I spoke with spoke of reaching out to emergency services for work but advised that I should be prepared to be called upon 24/7 should I choose to do that. I'd like to hear how you make out on it.

No part 107 is necessary. When you are scanning someone's roof you are no longer doing a recreational flight.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

No part 107 is necessary. When you are scanning someone's roof you are no longer doing a recreational flight.

Sounds applicable. OK, how many people got fined for doing that?

 

[SethB]

Sounds applicable. OK, how many people got fined for doing that?

Definitely the Pt. 107 certification requirement applies to all non-recreational or non-educational flying.

As to how many people have been fined, what I’ve picked up talking to people and reading various internet sources is that FAA has done a lot of warnings pointing out requirements to pilots they identify on Youtube. Some of those YTers have posted more clips about their experiences, I get the impression that it’s been regarded inside FAA as an educational campaign.

Since we *don’t* (yet?) seem to have the drone police lurking in every park and farm field demanding one’s ID and certificate the remainder of what I’ve picked up is the publicly flagrant violators, especially those who crash or whose actions require a public safety / law enforcement response.

Sorry, no numbers. Perhaps the FAA summary referenced earlier in the thread would answer your question?