Just curious, can THIS trick Aeroscope?

[Yaros]

I thought of a potential way to make the pilot location unidentifiable to DJI Aeroscope, I wonder if it works.
So, Aeroscope gets the GPS location of the pilot by the GPS in your phone, and the drone's location by the GPS in the drone, right?
What if the pilot:
- Puts phone in Airplane mode, so the phone's location is not being identified using cell networks
- Uses "Fake GPS" app to fake the location of the mobile device and its GPS
- Takeoff and then walks away 500 meters away from homepoint

After doing this, how would Aeroscope know that you are in a new location, if the GPS location transmitted to the drone using radio signals (and picked up mid-flight by Aeroscope) is transmitting a fake location? DJI Remotes don't have GPS modules in them, right?

I'm just curious, I'm not planning anything illegal whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 84685]

Smart remote has GPS module, most dont ,good idea though
Others have GPS receiver which is how home point is set

 

[Yaros]

Smart remote has GPS module, most dont ,good idea though
Others have GPS receiver which is how home point is set

I know that the Smart Controller and RC Pro do have GPS, but the standard remote doesn't, to my knowledge.
Homepoint is set using the drone's GPS module not by the one in the controller or phone.

 

[Dmedic5128]

I thought of a potential way to make the pilot location unidentifiable to DJI Aeroscope, I wonder if it works.
So, Aeroscope gets the GPS location of the pilot by the GPS in your phone, and the drone's location by the GPS in the drone, right?
What if the pilot:
- Puts phone in Airplane mode, so the phone's location is not being identified using cell networks
- Uses "Fake GPS" app to fake the location of the mobile device and its GPS
- Takeoff and then walks away 500 meters away from homepoint

After doing this, how would Aeroscope know that you are in a new location, if the GPS location transmitted to the drone using radio signals (and picked up mid-flight by Aeroscope) is transmitting a fake location? DJI Remotes don't have GPS modules in them, right?

I'm just curious, I'm not planning anything illegal whatsoever.

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

 

[maelstrom]

Aeroscope gets the GPS location of the pilot by the GPS in your phone

I don’t think that’s correct. My understanding is the same as what @Ianzone said - that the pilot location is assumed to be the home point. Most tablets don’t provide a GPS position so couldn’t give this information to Aeroscope.

 

[Alan_M]

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

Airplane mode on the phone shuts down Wi-Fi and cellular signals on the phone itself. The controller will still have a connection to the drone.

 

[BigAl07]

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

FALSE!!

Airplane mode stops Cellular and WiFi comms but your Remote Control is the link to the drone for control not your phone/tablet's comms. You don't even need a phone/tablet to fly the aircraft what so ever.

Here's how it works:

• Remote Control establishes 2-way connection with Aircraft
• Phone/Tablet is connected to Transmitter via hardwire (usb type) cable
• Phone/Tablet send all input and get output from aircraft via your Remote Controller

It's imperative to understand how this works in case something goes wrong and even MORE so when you're going to be giving advice on the subject matter.

 

[Cymruflyer]

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

That is incorrect, I always put the phone into airplane mode when I flew my Mavic Pro, so that an incoming call did not mess-up anything while flying.

 

[Airtony]

The privacy settings of your account let switch off GPS information on the drone and on the smartphone. Can Aeroscope find the coordinates of Home point or Take-off point in this case?

 

[Yaros]

The privacy settings of your account let switch off GPS information on the drone and on the smartphone. Can Aeroscope find the coordinates of Home point or Take-off point in this case?

No, I don't think so. However, the method I commented in my post may work.

 

[Daytona500]

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

WHAT? where did you get this info? LOL

 

[JimCunn]

Why would anyone care if their location and ID are known?
What is the downside?

 

[droncek]

Disable drone ID:

 

[MickeyMoo]

Great subject. Here is a professional that depends on getting it right for his life.

 

[Yaros]

Great subject. Here is a professional that depends on getting it right for his life.

Yes, I saw this video! Explains pretty well.

 

[smashse]

I've read that the FAA rule requires that the GPS location of the console be accurate within 15' of true location. I am not positive as I can't quote the section in the FAA rules, but if using a fake GPS app, you would actually be in violation of that rule and subject to penalty if it wasn't changed.

I know it was in the rules in 2021. The rules I did look at did say it was required, and it was law enforcement that pushed for it, so 500' away might not upset as an officer as they should still be able to ID you. Part 14 § 89.305 states the control station location must be transmitted, not just "a" location, but an indication of the control station location.

And I don't know that 500' in the first post would really deter someone from finding you. I mean they couldn't just follow the app on their phone, but they would get pretty close, and then look for someone holding a remote and looking up in the sky once in a while.

One thing to note, if the UAS isn't RID compliant, you can use a "bolt-on module" that does the same. Except that in a bolt-on, you aren't required to send the control station location, just take off location. RID Broadcast Module (§ 89.115(a)). Makes older drones more desirable maybe?

Penalties included are from section 107.5, which include revoking your cert, drone registration, and civil penalties for anyone intentionally creating a false record. With a Fake GPS app, it would be hard to deny.

TL;DR you probably wouldn't get in trouble for it, but it does appear to be against the FAA rules to use a program to intentionally transmit false data on your RID transmissions. And, you may be totally in compliance with a Phantom 3 with a bolt-on RID module as it will only transmit takeoff location, not control station location. And I wouldn't try huge distances because they could fine you for "BVLOS" or transmitting false RID data, take your pick as to which you take based on flight logs if saying you were miles away from actual.

 

[rgarjr]

Just wondering, doesn't the RC-N1 have a GNSS chip? Wouldn't the Aeroscope use that instead of the Home Point. I thought I'd seen it on the specs.

Ii know that the DJI RC, RC Pro, and Smart Controller have on board GNSS

 

[Yaros]

Just wondering, doesn't the RC-N1 have a GNSS chip?

I don't think so, however I'm not sure.

Also one thing to point out: in DJI Fly settings, in the privacy settings there is a toggle to disable Mobile device GPS info, and it says that this needs to be enabled for remote ID to work, so with it disabled, will Aeroscope still show your location?

 

[Felix le Chat]

If you go into Airplane mode on phone you will not have a connection with the drone, that mode shuts everything off

Regardless of airplane mode: the drone still broadcasts a radio signal direct to the controller, which then feeds it to the screen device. Aeroscope is a series of 3 RF receivers (1 wi-fi: 1 lightbrdge: 1 ocusync) all working at the same time that listen in on the broadcast signal from drone to controller at the same time your controller gets the input. This is on both 2.4 and 5.8ghz. Airplane mode only turns off your screen device RF Comms.

 

[Felix le Chat]

I've read that the FAA rule requires that the GPS location of the console be accurate within 15' of true location. I am not positive as I can't quote the section in the FAA rules, but if using a fake GPS app, you would actually be in violation of that rule and subject to penalty if it wasn't changed.

I know it was in the rules in 2021. The rules I did look at did say it was required, and it was law enforcement that pushed for it, so 500' away might not upset as an officer as they should still be able to ID you. Part 14 § 89.305 states the control station location must be transmitted, not just "a" location, but an indication of the control station location.

And I don't know that 500' in the first post would really deter someone from finding you. I mean they couldn't just follow the app on their phone, but they would get pretty close, and then look for someone holding a remote and looking up in the sky once in a while.

One thing to note, if the UAS isn't RID compliant, you can use a "bolt-on module" that does the same. Except that in a bolt-on, you aren't required to send the control station location, just take off location. RID Broadcast Module (§ 89.115(a)). Makes older drones more desirable maybe?

Penalties included are from section 107.5, which include revoking your cert, drone registration, and civil penalties for anyone intentionally creating a false record. With a Fake GPS app, it would be hard to deny.

TL;DR you probably wouldn't get in trouble for it, but it does appear to be against the FAA rules to use a program to intentionally transmit false data on your RID transmissions. And, you may be totally in compliance with a Phantom 3 with a bolt-on RID module as it will only transmit takeoff location, not control station location. And I wouldn't try huge distances because they could fine you for "BVLOS" or transmitting false RID data, take your pick as to which you take based on flight logs if saying you were miles away from actual.

Good luck to the FAA demanding +/-15' accuracy. Civvie GPS is still mostly inaccurate at 3 times that distance. Military GPS isn't much better.