United States National Park Ban

[ColinF]

Unfortunately these days I have been doing lest nature and more commercial work, and like a lot of us my Reel is way out of date. That said you are more than welcome to watch what I have.

Wow. That is awesome. I will watch that again and again to learn from you. Truly beautiful!

 

[Thwyllo]

There has to be controls. I agree no one wants fleets of unchecked quads flying around. With the correct rules and controls it is managble. Allow it only at certain times of the year. Sell permits and only allow a certain number at different areas, etc. Banning everyone is the easy way out. It would take a little work by the NPS, but it would be better than just saying no to everyone.

Frankly I find it hilarious that you guys have to pay good money to enter what is, after all, public land. Maybe when the fossil fuel companies move in they should be required to subsidize that.

 

[Pauxier]

The thing that I noticed in your video was you flying over people! It's hard to say what the FAA would be most concerned about if they did have the resources to enforce all the regulations all the time. I'm not trying to call you out or anything i'm just trying to point out that everyone has a view about things that need to be taken into consideration but no one wants to compromise. I for example would rather hear a drone than a bunch of bratty kids. If some one is being dangerous with a drone, they should be dealt with individually because regulation won't stop them. Nice video---- I do agree that just because something has already been discussed doesn't mean it should stop being discussed------

 

[badaxed]

"There is a 100% ban on drones in National Parks and yet, people still fly within them. "Allowing" drones would make the situation even worse. People who don't know now that they are banned would instead see that they are allowed and not bother to understand a limited permit is needed. Spend a lot of money to get to a National Park and want to fly your drone only to find out your can't get a limited permit? Screw it, just fly anyway. After all, it took a lot to get there. There is less of a chance of getting caught if they let some people fly. Limited number of permits? I guess there will only be a few drones stuck in geysers, bussing around people while they attempt to enjoy the area or just a few people getting hit because someone needed a drone shot of a popular attraction. "

There are laws that govern the use roads also, yet people are not banned from driving because of those who violate road laws.

Imagine if certain roads were banned for use because of too many speeders.

Outright bans to me (my opinion) are government over regulation. The goal should be balance of use, not prohibition.

There are areas of national parks that are very remote that would not hinder other people or animals that could provide a place for great drone photography opportunities at certain times.

To ban all areas at all times to me is excessive overregulation.

 

[jctarvin]

Another futile and annoying thread. Just follow the rules. Fly from outside the park. Post your beautiful video.

 

[Clockman]

This is a really interesting thread. I didn't have time to read every post but I tend to agree with the OP. A total ban is excessive. Drones were made for capturing the beauty of the landscape and our national parks have some of the most beautiful scenery. Instead of opening the entire park to drone flyers on certain days, why not set designated areas of the park for drone flyers to operate? Maybe have time limits on that. I live near Valley Forge National Park and the park service has a designated area for the local RC flying club to fly there fixed wing and helicopter models. I've seen a few drones there too but the club generally frowns on those. It's a popular area for flyers and spectators to visit. The state of PA bans drones in state parks but they do have a few parks throughout the state where they allow drones in designated areas. These areas are clearly marked as drone flying areas so the public knows what to expect. The only drawback would be as a drone flyer you would be relegated to one area of the park so exploration would be limited but it's better than nothing.

 

[sar104]

"There is a 100% ban on drones in National Parks and yet, people still fly within them. "Allowing" drones would make the situation even worse. People who don't know now that they are banned would instead see that they are allowed and not bother to understand a limited permit is needed. Spend a lot of money to get to a National Park and want to fly your drone only to find out your can't get a limited permit? Screw it, just fly anyway. After all, it took a lot to get there. There is less of a chance of getting caught if they let some people fly. Limited number of permits? I guess there will only be a few drones stuck in geysers, bussing around people while they attempt to enjoy the area or just a few people getting hit because someone needed a drone shot of a popular attraction. "

There are laws that govern the use roads also, yet people are not banned from driving because of those who violate road laws.

Imagine if certain roads were banned for use because of too many speeders.

Outright bans to me (my opinion) are government over regulation. The goal should be balance of use, not prohibition.

There are areas of national parks that are very remote that would not hinder other people or animals that could provide a place for great drone photography opportunities at certain times.

To ban all areas at all times to me is excessive overregulation.

That's not a comparable argument. Roads were designed and intended for vehicle use. National Parks were not designed or intended for drone use. A better comparison would be the prohibition on vehicles in wilderness. Is that overregulation?

 

[ColinF]

The thing that I noticed in your video was you flying over people! It's hard to say what the FAA would be most concerned about if they did have the resources to enforce all the regulations all the time. I'm not trying to call you out or anything i'm just trying to point out that everyone has a view about things that need to be taken into consideration but no one wants to compromise. I for example would rather hear a drone than a bunch of bratty kids. If some one is being dangerous with a drone, they should be dealt with individually because regulation won't stop them. Nice video---- I do agree that just because something has already been discussed doesn't mean it should stop being discussed------

Thanks for commenting. To be clear though, the FAA rule is no flying “directly over people.” They define that as over “any part of a body”. No one was directly under my drone at any time.” There were people in the peripheries of my shots.

 

[ColinF]

"There is a 100% ban on drones in National Parks and yet, people still fly within them. "Allowing" drones would make the situation even worse. People who don't know now that they are banned would instead see that they are allowed and not bother to understand a limited permit is needed. Spend a lot of money to get to a National Park and want to fly your drone only to find out your can't get a limited permit? Screw it, just fly anyway. After all, it took a lot to get there. There is less of a chance of getting caught if they let some people fly. Limited number of permits? I guess there will only be a few drones stuck in geysers, bussing around people while they attempt to enjoy the area or just a few people getting hit because someone needed a drone shot of a popular attraction. "

There are laws that govern the use roads also, yet people are not banned from driving because of those who violate road laws.

Imagine if certain roads were banned for use because of too many speeders.

Outright bans to me (my opinion) are government over regulation. The goal should be balance of use, not prohibition.

There are areas of national parks that are very remote that would not hinder other people or animals that could provide a place for great drone photography opportunities at certain times.

To ban all areas at all times to me is excessive overregulation.

Very well said.

 

[Endeavor]

I would have to side with the ban as I can envision the acceptance of a buzzing drone akin to the people trying to enjoy a summer day on the water fishing while jet skis buzz around them. And you know very well someone will get hurt and the entire sport will attain a black eye forever and eventually lead to more rules regulations and bans. Besides we were at the Grand Canyon last summer and there is so much to video outside the park that one does not need to photograph that which has already been photographed and posted on just about everything in gift shops.
It all has to do with the needs on the one does not infringe on the needs of the masses.

 

[rmb]

Wow. That is awesome. I will watch that again and again to learn from you. Truly beautiful!

Well Thank you colinF.
Much appreciated.

 

[ColinF]

I would have to side with the ban as I can envision the acceptance of a buzzing drone akin to the people trying to enjoy a summer day on the water fishing while jet skis buzz around them. And you know very well someone will get hurt and the entire sport will attain a black eye forever and eventually lead to more rules regulations and bans. Besides we were at the Grand Canyon last summer and there is so much to video outside the park that one does not need to photograph that which has already been photographed and posted on just about everything in gift shops.
It all has to do with the needs on the one does not infringe on the needs of the masses.

Very valid concerns. My perspective is, and others have suggested as well, is not to allow unfettered access, but have it controlled. Limited to remote areas, off hours and seasons,permitted to allow only a few at a time, geofence sensitive high pedestrian areas. , or other similar ideas. A little access is better than a complete ban.

 

[ScubaBob]

And now the link to the video....

I greatly dislike people who think that the laws don't apply to them. The laws, rules and regulations are written for EVERYONE and if you don't like them then please go to another country. I am an outdoorsman kind of guy. I once spent 10 days cross-country skiing in Yellowstone. It was beautiful. It was pristine. I was loving watching the bison capture warmth around the geysers. It was silent UNTIL a group of snowmobilers ran through the area spooking the bison and almost causing them to trample a skier. Snowmobiles were allowed in Yellowstone at that time. We could hear them coming in the distance and heard them for nearly a minute after they had disrupted the peace. As much as I would love to have some aerial photos from Yellowstone I realize that millions of people go there to enjoy nature and it isn't right that my buzzing drone should disturb their peace.

 

[ColinF]

I greatly dislike people who think that the laws don't apply to them. The laws, rules and regulations are written for EVERYONE and if you don't like them then please go to another country. I am an outdoorsman kind of guy. I once spent 10 days cross-country skiing in Yellowstone. It was beautiful. It was pristine. I was loving watching the bison capture warmth around the geysers. It was silent UNTIL a group of snowmobilers ran through the area spooking the bison and almost causing them to trample a skier. Snowmobiles were allowed in Yellowstone at that time. We could hear them coming in the distance and heard them for nearly a minute after they had disrupted the peace. As much as I would love to have some aerial photos from Yellowstone I realize that millions of people go there to enjoy nature and it isn't right that my buzzing drone should disturb their peace.

I appreciate you have strong feelings, and I respect that. With that said, I don’t want anyone to break any laws. I respect the law greatly. No one should fly in National Parks at this time. It is against the regulations. (Not sure if you are implying that I broke a law, but just in case, I’ll reiterate, the video I produced did not break any laws. I went to great lengths to ensure I was within FAA, NPS, and local regulations.) What I am suggesting is the law (well, to be precise, the interim memorandum) needs to be changed. This is a very American and democratic thing to do, and the right thing to do if you disagree with the law. Never break the law or regulations. As to drones in National Parks, I do believe limited access could be balanced with thoughtful regulation. I would have loved to experience the pristine scene you described (up until the snowmobiles ruined it) The closest I have come to that is when skiing early in the morning in Killington, on subzero days, when you get to the top of the mountain, there is a quiet that covers everything like a warm blanket. It is amazing.

 

[rmb]

I have rarely been in a forum where such passionate and opposing viewpoints were shared with such class and dignity.

Congratulations to all.
Now if only we could get the political Left and Right could do the same...

 

[zorr0]

And now the link to the video....

Good Video. Thats an interesting place. LOve to take a train ride. Lst time I wet to the Big Apple, caught the train here in Petersburg VA, stayed thru NewYrs, then caught that Acela? It has a strange name. It has little compartments, Upper and lower bunk, little table and toilet. Much nicer coming home. But I just like the whole thing..he passengers, the accents of the north the hustle bustle of NYC! Im one of those Rebels that loves the BigApple. Greatest city on earth.

 

[zorr0]

I appreciate you have strong feelings, and I respect that. With that said, I don’t want anyone to break any laws. I respect the law greatly. No one should fly in National Parks at this time. It is against the regulations. (Not sure if you are implying that I broke a law, but just in case, I’ll reiterate, the video I produced did not break any laws. I went to great lengths to ensure I was within FAA, NPS, and local regulations.) What I am suggesting is the law (well, to be precise, the interim memorandum) needs to be changed. This is a very American and democratic thing to do, and the right thing to do if you disagree with the law. Never break the law or regulations. As to drones in National Parks, I do believe limited access could be balanced with thoughtful regulation. I would have loved to experience the pristine scene you described (up until the snowmobiles ruined it) The closest I have come to that is when skiing early in the morning in Killington, on subzero days, when you get to the top of the mountain, there is a quiet that covers everything like a warm blanket. It is amazing.

How can you compare the tinny little sound of a Mavoic to a SNOWMOBILE Grrrrrrrr!! SOmetimes I lose liine of sight, and I will strain to hear the darn thing. Finally I have to "come home" and finally when its right on top of me..I hear it. They just arent that loud. WHat a whiner.

 

[Jackcutrone]

I don't know but at about 2:26 in the video, it sure looks like you were flying over a person. I'm just saying.

 

[sar104]

How can you compare the tinny little sound of a Mavoic to a SNOWMOBILE Grrrrrrrr!! SOmetimes I lose liine of sight, and I will strain to hear the darn thing. Finally I have to "come home" and finally when its right on top of me..I hear it. They just arent that loud. WHat a whiner.

Very true, but it's not about "one Mavic". It's about a significant fraction of the park visitors flying drones. It's great that your aircraft doesn't disturb you when it's far enough away that you can't see it, but if there were tens of them flying around over scenic hotspots taking photos and selfies then firstly, there's a high chance of collisions and secondly, people would definitely be disturbed by them. And when your Mavic is far enough away that it's not audible to you, how do you know that it's not disturbing wildlife or other people? As pointed out multiple times, there are plenty of videos posted by people apparently pleased with themselves, or at least oblivious, for having chased animals.

Technology rarely retreats, and so somehow drones will get integrated into parks. They will get quieter, and more able to be regulated, and maybe they will be prohibited at the popular tourist spots but allowed in other areas. We'll just have to be patient.

 

[Mavhawk]

I think the point is drones can be allowed while also protecting the parks and the wildlife.

Colin, I'm on your side on this one. To me it's such an enthralling thought, to be able to some how fly and take air footage of a National Park, it's pitiful. I've been a serious armature videographer for years now, and when I finally woke up to drones, I'm kicking myself for not starting earlier. Maybe I'd of gotten some shots in before the rules and regs got so tough. To me, it's a very difficult issue to handle, even if you had the power, or could convince the rule makers to change things. I can see how the idea of only allowing certain days to fly, but I'll bet there would be a million people there on those days. The permit thing, might work, but like you say, you might have to wait years before you could get in there, depending on how they set up the permit. I can feel your passion and you've got me there too. I'm just not sure how they could do it, but I think there could, and if possible, should be a way to do it. You know these big travel programs get it done some how. Of course they're putting programs on the air for the whole world to see, but I only pray, the authorities will sincerely try and do something about it. Marc Trainor.