Wow that’s a long way. I’m thinking I might just keep the antennas folded so I get a lot less range and I can see where it is while it’s losing signal. Either that or fly it out to the middle of the frozen lake and just the. The RC off.
Who has has the guts to take it to the max.
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Wow that’s a long way. I’m thinking I might just keep the antennas folded so I get a lot less range and I can see where it is while it’s losing signal. Either that or fly it out to the middle of the frozen lake and just the. The RC off.
787steve
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You will get a lot of advice here. Some very good, some not so good. Sounds like your parents are being very wise. Be aware that in the US, flying it further than you can see it totally illegal. And if you did that, and something bad happened, your parents would be the ones held responsible to make it right. Being a responsible pilot is a challenge for many, and it sounds like you might have better intentions than a lot of older operators here. Have fun with your new Mavic. It is a wonderful piece of machinery.
Realize that flying far only requires you to hold a joystick forward for a long time. Not what I would call a display of piloting skill. In fact THE BEST piloting skill you can develop is the skill to make wise decisions. Think hard about the possible problems you could cause innocent people when you operate a drone illegally. And as has been mentioned, if enough people keep breaking the law, then bragging about it, our rights to fly as we do, may go away in a hurry. As a Captain, every time I briefed a new First Officer at the start of a trip ended the same way. "FLY SAFE, AND HAVE FUN. IN THAT ORDER."
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Rocketramo
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Am I missing something. Could you not let it fly a few hundred yards away, let it hover, and then turn the controller off to check the RTH?
I believe we are confusing legality with recommendations. We're confusing controlled airspace with other airspace. If you're going to claim something is illegal please include a link to the law.
We regularly fly to heights of 3,000 feet and Beyond. All completely legal.
You do need to understand what is the law.
The FAA does not have authority over all airspace from the ground up.
We regularly fly to heights of 3,000 feet and Beyond. All completely legal.
You do need to understand what is the law.
The FAA does not have authority over all airspace from the ground up.
787steve
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Fair enough. Yes, I should have included my links. I think you are referring to the FAA guidelines. But I totally agree that this young drone enthusiast should look for proof, and not rely solely on what you, or I, or anyone else claims is, or is not the law. As I give you links to the law, as I understand it, perhaps you could give links to the lack of law, as you understand it.
Firstly, I can find no law limiting you altitude, with the exceptions of the catch alls of giving way to manned aircraft, or endangering the national airspace, and the AMA saying you should not exceed 300' within 3 miles of an airport without notifying them. . So I have no argument with you flying up to 3000' as long as you are not near an airport, have your drone in sight, and obey the catch alls.
So, here we go:
Section 336 of the FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF 2012, on the 6th page of this link is the portion of interest. This is a law which says what I think you were referencing above, the FAA cannot regulate drones flown for hobby. But it doesn't stop there. The congress went on to define what you have to do to be considered under the "hobbyist" clause. Among those are to follow a set of safety guidelines established by a "national community based organization". The only organization that anyone can find which fits this discussion is the AMA. If you can find another, please post it here. You don't have to be a member of the AMA. I am not a member. But you have to follow their safety guidelines to be a hobbyist. At the top of the next page, you can see where the law goes on to say "(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft". The VLOS restriction is in the AMA guidelines, AND separately in the law. If you don't operate by VLOS which is one of the factors that defines a hobbyist, you fall under FAA Part 107, which is subject to all the FAA regs that go with it. And the FAA can, and does go after hobbyists who violate the safety of the airspace, or conflict with manned aircraft.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf.
AMA Safety Code:
https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf.
Addressed above. I have seen one poster here say this is way out of date, because it still addresses control line flying. It is not out of date, it is just trying to address all model aircraft pilots. Believe it or not, people still fly control line flying control line models.
I have also seen claims that Sec 336 is not law, or is unenforceable. So I will show the link to this info on it becoming law.
H.R.658 - FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012112th Congress (2011-2012)
LAW
Hide Overview icon-hide
Sponsor: Rep. Mica, John L. [R-FL-7] (Introduced 02/11/2011)
Committees: House - Transportation and Infrastructure; Science, Space, and Technology; Judiciary
Committee Reports: H. Rept. 112-29,Part 1; H. Rept. 112-29,Part 2; H. Rept. 112-381 (Conference Report)
Latest Action: 02/14/2012 Became Public Law No: 112-95. (TXT | PDF) (All Actions)
Roll Call Votes: There have been 15 roll call votes
Tracker:
This bill has the status Became Law
H.R.658 - 112th Congress (2011-2012): FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012
Here is an article on the FAA's fines by enforcing the law on 24 people with most fines ranging from several hundred to several thousand dollars.
The FAA Gave Us a List of Every Drone Pilot Who Has Ever Been Fined.
Here are a couple more supporting links:
Fly under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57A_Ch_1.pdf
OK. Your turn. Please post your links.
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Not sure if skip would work for a drone. You know how the signal fads with skip.
787Steve - Very much appreciate what you're trying to do here here. As you probably well know your citations above are debated in great detail and many places.
Some of the most common views not covered in your response are:
1) Guidelines are not regulations, which are not law. Been a AMA member for a long time and flown at many sanctions fields.
There are many types of airborne vessels.
2) no one including the FAA believes that they have guidelines concerning flying indoors. Indoors has been defined very broadly by the FAA including through their more than 130 exceptions. One of the most curious exceptions is flying over athletic events is ok, if you have permission from the events management.
3) many (most?) of the DJI no-fly-zones have no relationship to anyone's guidelines regulations, rules or law.
I agree and believe you've accomplished what needs to be said and that is ... it is not at all clear. Thank you
Some of the most common views not covered in your response are:
1) Guidelines are not regulations, which are not law. Been a AMA member for a long time and flown at many sanctions fields.
There are many types of airborne vessels.
2) no one including the FAA believes that they have guidelines concerning flying indoors. Indoors has been defined very broadly by the FAA including through their more than 130 exceptions. One of the most curious exceptions is flying over athletic events is ok, if you have permission from the events management.
3) many (most?) of the DJI no-fly-zones have no relationship to anyone's guidelines regulations, rules or law.
I agree and believe you've accomplished what needs to be said and that is ... it is not at all clear. Thank you
i got the guts to try it,no problem,no worries and not scared a bit of not being able to fly again cause i bought a spare mavic just in case.
Mad Mavic
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Did it several times and it worked perfectly in the daylight... not to be trusted in the dark. I even went a little further a forced my Mavic to stay aloft until the battery reached such a critical level they to force landed. I made sure I was at low altitude in a field near the road. I simply used my go4 app in reverse and too home to the bird. It still had power so I walked right up to it. Instead of the red plane coming to the home icon (blue dot) it was reversed. It was actually quite exciting to be able to remotely land and retrieve it so easily. Just glad a dog didn’t get there before me lol
In summary, watch the battery and be on or near the ground before the power level gets critically low and the drone lands. It could possibly fall from high altitude, if forced to stay aloft too long. Not sure about that last statement
787steve
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I have seen them debated, but you can debate anything. People debate that the earth is flat. That doesn't mean it is considered questionable, by intelligent, well informed individuals.
As to your other points.:
1. Correct. Guidelines are not recommendations. But these are not guidelines. As you requested, I posted links to what the law says, the fact that it was passed into law, and articles on the FAA fining people for violating the law. Nothing I posted was identified as a guideline, with the possible exception of the AMA Safety Code which the LAW says you have to follow
2. No, the FAA does not consider air in a building as part of the national airspace. But I'm fairly certain the discussion in this thread was talking about flying outdoors.
3. DJI no fly zones are irrelevant. That is why I didn't mention them. They are in no place mentioned in the law. You asked for confirmation of what I "claimed to be illegal".
You asked me to include links to what I was claiming to be law, and I did so. Now you say that it is not at all clear. I could not disagree with you more. Unless you question my links, it is very clear what the law is. How people operate in regard to the law us up to them. (There is more to the law, but nothing relevant to this discussion.)
Remember, there is at least one young man (or lady) on here who is wanting info on what the law is as it applies to them. I told Droneteen that there is a lot of good, and a lot of bad info here. Saying what people debate, or SAY or FEEL does not help when trying to find out what the law IS. Please post links to support your point that the laws, as expressed in my reply do not apply to Droneteen, or you, or me.
BTW, I have been searching for all these rules for my own understanding. I have not come across the exception you mentioned for sporting events. Can you post a link to that as well. I would like to add it to my files.
Thanks.
csevengo
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There’s almost 700 pages of info here. I had it printed. Nearly 2 inches thick. I just started reading it myself.
Drone Pilot Field Kit
787steve
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What you just posted is one of the least understood issues we face. It causes much debate. That is a comprehensive list of things related to flying under Part 107. You have to be very careful as to whether what you read is related to part 107, or related to hobbyist. If you fly for commercial purposes, or fly without adhering to the requirements to be a hobbyist, you fall under Part 107.
There is a LOT there. If you want to avoid that, you must fly as a hobbyist.
To do that, you must obey Public Law No: 112-95, The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Section 336, addressed in my earlier post. Sec 336 is less than one page long. It helps to read a couple more pages to understand how the law is constructed. If you just want to know what you have to do to avoid all the complexity f Part 107, you only need the small section 336. It is very simple, and very clear cut.
The choice is yours. Do you want to follow 700 pages related to Part 107, or one page related to flying as a hobbyist? I know what I'm choosing.
BTW, a lot of the resistance to this comes from people who think VLOS means they are not to look at their screens. I searched the legal definition of VLOS and it says you must "BE able" to see it, not that you cannot look away.
There is a LOT there. If you want to avoid that, you must fly as a hobbyist.
To do that, you must obey Public Law No: 112-95, The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Section 336, addressed in my earlier post. Sec 336 is less than one page long. It helps to read a couple more pages to understand how the law is constructed. If you just want to know what you have to do to avoid all the complexity f Part 107, you only need the small section 336. It is very simple, and very clear cut.
The choice is yours. Do you want to follow 700 pages related to Part 107, or one page related to flying as a hobbyist? I know what I'm choosing.
BTW, a lot of the resistance to this comes from people who think VLOS means they are not to look at their screens. I searched the legal definition of VLOS and it says you must "BE able" to see it, not that you cannot look away.
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Creature Boy
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787steve
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For simplicity, here is SEC 336, Special Rule for Model Aircraft summarized in one man's words. Again, please read the actual documents. This, like much of what you read here is one man's opinion as to what the facts are. My opinions are based on my reading of the original documents, not on what I have heard others say, or debate. If you believe I am in error, please let me know. To me, it isn't about winning an argument. It is about knowing the facts.
SEC 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft.
IN SIMPLE DRONE SPEAK
A. The FAA cannot make rules or regulations regarding a model aircraft IF
(IF is a small word with big significance.)
IF:
B. Noting here shall keep the FAA from pursuing enforcement action against operator of a model aircraft who endangers the safety of the national airspace system.
C. Model aircraft is defined as unmanned aircraft that iscapable of sustained flight
SEC 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft.
IN SIMPLE DRONE SPEAK
A. The FAA cannot make rules or regulations regarding a model aircraft IF
(IF is a small word with big significance.)
IF:
- It is flown strictly for hobby or recreation. (no making money)
- Operated in accordance with a “community based safety code. (The only one anyone seems to know which fits the law is the AMA safety code.) http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf
- Not more than 55 lb.
- Operated in a way that does not interfere with manned aircraft; and
- If within 5 miles of an airport, you must give airport operator, and tower controller (if there is one) with prior notice.
B. Noting here shall keep the FAA from pursuing enforcement action against operator of a model aircraft who endangers the safety of the national airspace system.
C. Model aircraft is defined as unmanned aircraft that iscapable of sustained flight
- flown within visual line of sight of the person operating it
- flown for hobby or recreational purposes.
I have an honest question - how can one say they can keep their drone in sight when flying 3,000' away from the operator? I can only legitimately see my MP when it's a couple hundred feet away max in perfect conditions. I'm curious how people can honestly say they're obeying VLOS when the drone is so small. Are people using something to spot it like binoculars? I'm genuinely curious as most of my flights so far have merely been for fun in the mountains in very remote areas, and I'd like to stretch my range a bit.
Yeah you’re right. Even if it did the Skip is weird anyways. There is a skip right now and I’m hearing people in Georgia, North Carolina. All over the place and I’m in Massachusetts. But I probably can’t hear people the next state over As it is skipping. And it goes in and out quickly.
You need binoculars to see that far. I can see mine about 1000 feet. But I put the yellow skin on mine just for that reason so I could see it much further away now. But when you are getting the distances like that it has to be completely wide open and. You use a spotter.
A lot of people who go that far are not following the line of sight law. The only way to do it is to have a pair of binoculars and a spotter. also when there are darker conditions. Right when the sun is starting to disappear at the end of the day or early morning you can see good because you can see the lights on the drone. As long as it’s not such great overhead.
I would say that a safer practice is to power on the Mavic(not the motors), wait for the GPS to get SAT lock, that is when you will hear "home point recorded, check it on the map", At that point is when I launch, otherwise I cannot be sure of the exact landing location for RTH. I have seen the flight logs for lost Mavics, several have a launch without GPS, then drifting in ATTI mode, then lost without a GPS location. Advise wait the few seconds before take off.what nice parents you have
try to keep it in sight and it will have the best signal (no trees or buildings in the way to block the signal)
check you have set you RTH high enough to clear anything between the drone and home point.
take off and wait for the home point has been established promt. before flying up and away.
stay in beginner mode till you are confident as this will limit you range.
you probably got a quick start guide in the box but download the FULL dji mavic pro manual and study it carefully.
any questions come back and ask or search your problem in the search bar (spyglass) don't think we can help with "how do I tell dad my drones gone"
good luck and take it easy.
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