2.7 or 4k?

[tribar]

The Mavic records:
4K at 60mbps
2K7 at 40mbps
1080p at 40mbps

 

[rmb]

Thank you Ender. I do have 1 question (which I believe you answered) but wanted to be clear. I was once an audio engineer and the guys I worked with fell into 2 very distinct categories. The guys that watched the meters and the guys that used their ears. I followed your link to the detailed analysis and wow. There is detail there! Very impressive so thank you. Here is my question. Because my theory is that not all Mavics are created equal, when you looked at the 2 samples that I submitted (the house with bold features and wide ranging highlights and shadows and the field that was universally lit, but contained and almost unfair amount of detail) did you see a marketable difference between the 2k and 4k sample coming from my Mavic? Or do you believe that your machine is processing your images better/differently.

Thanks again for watching!

rb

 

[Ender]

Hi rmb.
I dloaded the original file from vimeo but noticed its "only" 1080p.
So whatever we see there is not the original size so the characterisctics of whatever downsamling you used comes into play.
Which means i cannot judge
As is to be expected bozh are very similar but due to above fact i use Mr. Comeys answer "Sir, i can not comment on that"

Another point is you used +1 Sharpness.

Without going to too much length that is the death of most pixels on the Mavic ALTHOUGH i have to confess it looks pleasant to the human eye at first.

But the key in this environment of limited h.264 bandwidth and *verey* limited smartness of denoise processing in the Mavics camera is to keep ALL postprocessing down.

Artificial shapening will produce artificial Details which then compete with real Details when compressing. Many real Details will loose that fight. So keep it to ONLY real Details, many will survic´ve the compression and THEN if you need to ( i dont) add Sharpness in post.

Also D-Cinelike is not a good idea on the Mavic as its 8 Bit compared to 10 or 12 Bit on other Systems where it is okay or even preferable. On 8 Bit Systems you should not shoot neutral but in the contrast / saturation (NOT Sharpness, see above !!) that comes slosest to your liking as its done before compression. If you choose a neutral / dull saturation & contrast many Brightness & color Details will be lost in Quantization noise.

Although i really don't walk on water and still learn new imaging stuff every day, you may trust me on this although i know that dozens of people will come down on that like hawks.
I am working for Leica & Konica Minolta right now and used to work for Heidelberger drum scanners and Nikon before so i saw some Megapixels before

Greetings,

Ender

P.S. if you like you could send me 2 vids in 2.7k / 4k and i could take a look at them although i doubt that it will be a far variance from my test setupo as i took the time before to compare my mavic optics with 3 others and 2 were very bad (they sent them back) and mine and the other were identical = OKAY.

 

[Marco Cantieni]

Thanks for the tests. I was fine for weeks shooting in 4K 30fps with 0,-1,-1 and Art. Then I noticed the water colour effect. I searched the web and did my own tests. Putting sharpness to +1 seems to be the solution to bypass Mavics internal compression. After shooting a while with that and still in 4K I feel it's a bad trade. I got noise and more vissible compression artefacts. My tests with 2k7 with +1,-1,-1 and Art turned out to be the better combination. There is less detail though but less noise and by far less compression artefacts. It remains personal taste. If you nuts for detail you have to go with 4k. If you can accept a bit less detail but get less compression artefacts 2.7K is better for you

 

[Ender]

I am mostly on -1/0/0 depending if i plan on video or Foto and if i will be too lazy for post
ALWAYS 2.7k of course.

Ender

P.S. there are many people who LOVE that "oversharpened" look and thats fine (90% of Asia for example) but please do so afterwards, NOT in the Mavic.

 

[rmb]

Hi rmb.
I dloaded the original file from vimeo but noticed its "only" 1080p.
So whatever we see there is not the original size so the characterisctics of whatever downsamling you used comes into play.
Which means i cannot judge
As is to be expected bozh are very similar but due to above fact i use Mr. Comeys answer "Sir, i can not comment on that"

Another point is you used +1 Sharpness.

Without going to too much length that is the death of most pixels on the Mavic ALTHOUGH i have to confess it looks pleasant to the human eye at first.

But the key in this environment of limited h.264 bandwidth and *verey* limited smartness of denoise processing in the Mavics camera is to keep ALL postprocessing down.

Artificial shapening will produce artificial Details which then compete with real Details when compressing. Many real Details will loose that fight. So keep it to ONLY real Details, many will survic´ve the compression and THEN if you need to ( i dont) add Sharpness in post.

Also D-Cinelike is not a good idea on the Mavic as its 8 Bit compared to 10 or 12 Bit on other Systems where it is okay or even preferable. On 8 Bit Systems you should not shoot neutral but in the contrast / saturation (NOT Sharpness, see above !!) that comes slosest to your liking as its done before compression. If you choose a neutral / dull saturation & contrast many Brightness & color Details will be lost in Quantization noise.

Although i really don't walk on water and still learn new imaging stuff every day, you may trust me on this although i know that dozens of people will come down on that like hawks.
I am working for Leica & Konica Minolta right now and used to work for Heidelberger drum scanners and Nikon before so i saw some Megapixels before

Greetings,

Ender

P.S. if you like you could send me 2 vids in 2.7k / 4k and i could take a look at them although i doubt that it will be a far variance from my test setupo as i took the time before to compare my mavic optics with 3 others and 2 were very bad (they sent them back) and mine and the other were identical = OKAY.

Thank you. I would like to follow up with you on this and provide you with your ideal test settings, so if you would could you just suggest a color profile and other specs i.e. 100 iso at a 50th and 24 or 30 fps color profile ____? sharpens 0,0,0? Once you do that and the weather cooperates I will shoot 2 identical scenes in both 4k and 2k. and then upload the raw uncompressed files.

Thanks a million, rb

 

[rmb]

I am mostly on -1/0/0 depending if i plan on video or Foto and if i will be too lazy for post
ALWAYS 2.7k of course.

Ender

P.S. there are many people who LOVE that "oversharpened" look and thats fine (90% of Asia for example) but please do so afterwards, NOT in the Mavic.

Just to qualify I hate the over sharp look, but anything but a 0 or +1 sharpness (on my mavic) produces mush.

 

[Ender]

Just to qualify I hate the over sharp look, but anything but a 0 or +1 sharpness (on my mavic) produces mush.

Using which progile ?
Anyways, will look at your vids, just PM me !

Ender

 

[rmb]

Using which progile ?
Anyways, will look at your vids, just PM me !

Ender

D-Cine.

 

[rmb]

D-Cine.

Sorry, just repeat. how would you like the samples please?
100 iso?
a 50th?
24 or 30 fps?
Color profile?
Sharpens 0,0,0?

Again thanks

rb

 

[Shawn3D]

This was shot in 2.7k and upscaled...
Try with the d-log +1/-3/0 setting and the SpectrumGrades LUTs...

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[tjbarney]

This was shot in 2.7k and upscaled...
Try with the d-log +1/-3/0 setting and the SpectrumGrades LUTs...

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Nice video! 24 or 30 fps?

 

[Shawn3D]

25p my friend [emoji106]

 

[bucefalo]

With my gopro I use 2k and mostly 2k 4:3 (FPS). But with Mavic I'm always using 4k. Then I create some Premiere proxies to edit my files in 1080.
Funny thing, gopro creates larger files, is it because of the sound recorded? I don't notice difference in video quality. Well I must confess, I usually use the start/stop recording, while with gopro I don't, and with gopro the videos are longer, so I guess my comparison so far is not that
accurate.

Regarding the zoom feature, in post production with 4K you can achieve better zoom without losing quality (with any fps setting)

i found out this opportunity recently.. since yo uare using it already how do you feeel? is it really so good as descrtibed? cause i can't edit 4k(would kill me.. and my pc)

 

[dsmpampis]

This topic is very interesting and now I'm gonna try some new settings because to be honest i didn't like the results of shooting in 4K at 24fps with +1 0 0 on D-Cine

Time to try 2K +1 0 0 on D-Log.

 

[RobP62]

This was shot in 2.7k and upscaled...
Try with the d-log +1/-3/0 setting and the SpectrumGrades LUTs...

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Holy crap this is fantastic video! Are you using any filters or a sun shade?
Thanks,
Rob

 

[gow7]

This topic is very interesting and now I'm gonna try some new settings because to be honest i didn't like the results of shooting in 4K at 24fps with +1 0 0 on D-Cine

Time to try 2K +1 0 0 on D-Log.

Try Standard on TrueColor in 4K too

 

[gow7]

i found out this opportunity recently.. since yo uare using it already how do you feeel? is it really so good as descrtibed? cause i can't edit 4k(would kill me.. and my pc)

Premiere's proxies is the way to go. Just create one that lowers your video resolution to 1080, wait the first time only (for the conversion made by Adobe Media Encoder) and then work with those files.
Finally when you export it, it will use your original videos

 

[dsmpampis]

Ok today I tried 2K 24fps with Cinelike and +1 0 0. I think for me are the ideal settings!!!

 

[Ziggy01]

Ok today I tried 2K 24fps with Cinelike and +1 0 0. I think for me are the ideal settings!!!

Breakfast of Champions.