60 Minutes Reports on Dangers of Drone Swarms
- Thread starter The Droning Company
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Someone will be along shortly to declare "where's the proof?" 
In a response to the question of shooting down a Drone Gen. Glen VanHerck Stated:
"or a land-based missile, or a missile off of a ship, is going to accelerate to two to four times the speed of sound and have large exploding titanium rods that come out of the warhead at thousands of feet per second,"
Hold on there Glen!!! When i was growing up we shot tin cans with bb guns not Bazookas!
Do you actually think the American people are wanting you to shoot mini tomahawks at every light in the sky!? Jeez...
Then again I read where 1 base sent up a few f-16s to investigate some lights one evening! Those cost 50 grand to start.
"or a land-based missile, or a missile off of a ship, is going to accelerate to two to four times the speed of sound and have large exploding titanium rods that come out of the warhead at thousands of feet per second,"
Hold on there Glen!!! When i was growing up we shot tin cans with bb guns not Bazookas!
Do you actually think the American people are wanting you to shoot mini tomahawks at every light in the sky!? Jeez...
Then again I read where 1 base sent up a few f-16s to investigate some lights one evening! Those cost 50 grand to start.
RockyMtns
Well-Known Member
Regarding the concerns about the jamming of 2.4 and 5.8 frequencies and its effect on unrelated electronics.......I don't really care. I'd rather have the drone frequencies jammed (and losing my wifi access in the process) than allow the drones to have unimpeded access to the military facilities.
Felix le Chat
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It isn't just drones that would get hammered and I beg to differ about it being a great idea and worth the patriotic 'inconvenience'. Not all military bases are way out in the back of beyond - the majority of military infrastructure is within a few miles of population centres.
Last summer, RF frequency jammers were being tested near the UK city of Coventry. They created havoc on and off for a week - not just with drones: but with a wide range of everyday tech people take for granted and also rely on.
Even the SatNav systems in cars within a 10 mile radius were affected... three-quarters of the way home from a shoot: mine decided I was in Lichtenstein and I ended up 20 miles out of my way and in totally unfamiliar territory before it clicked that the bloody thing hadn't got the faintest idea where the hell it was. I suppose that was fair: because by that time, neither had I.
Would you care if the RF jamming affected the welfare of someone you care about? What about
Professional hospital staff who rely on the wifi network transmission of data between departments to co-ordinate complex care, run RF jammers and that goes kaput as well. So do all the tablets used by hospital staff to enter data and transmit it dynamically to other departments. There are two major hospitals in the Coventry area and both had mysterious wifi problems last summer.
AMann
Well-Known Member
AI will thwart jammers- autonomous drones using it don’t necessarily need GPS and remote control to navigate once they are deployed. Similar to what some cruise missiles, the Mars helicopter Ingenuity, and the Mars rover landers do, a drone swarm could utilize dead reckoning by using topography and other visual cues from the land to navigate.
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Somewhere I heard in some instances, attempts were made to jam the rogue "drone" but it failed.
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Chip
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NORAD's mission – in close collaboration with homeland defense, security, and law enforcement partners – is to prevent air attacks against North America, safeguard the sovereign airspaces of the United States and Canada by responding to unknown, unwanted and unauthorized air activity approaching and operating within these airspaces, and provide aerospace and maritime warning for North America. NORAD may be required to monitor, shadow, divert from flight path, direct to land and/or destroy platforms deemed a potential threat to North America.
NORAD is the bi-national Canadian and American command that is responsible for the air defense of North America and maritime warning. The command has three subordinate regional headquarters: the Alaskan NORAD Region at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska; the Canadian NORAD Region at Winnipeg, Manitoba; and the Continental NORAD Region at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla. The command is poised both tactically and strategically in our nation’s capital to provide a multilayered defense to detect, deter and prevent potential threats flying over the airspace of the United States and Canada.
Audio confirming two F 15s from the 142nd Wing of the Oregon Air National Guard ready to depart Portland for Montana to intercept UFO (maybe a balloon).
This is what they are trained to do and should be doing particularly to protect military bases and sensitive infrastructure.
F15s made two supersonic flights from Portland to Seattle in the last 15 years, once when a small float plane violated a TFR during a Presidential visit and once when a plane was stolen from the airport by a baggage handler.
Video explaining pilot training and the most recent Portland scramble.
NORAD press release from 2010:
Anyone who violates a TFR may be met with deadly force. Is it not that simple? Once the National Guard F-15 is airborne, do you know who may give order to fire missile?
Imposing TFRs all over the place while authorizing secret drone flights over urban areas "for research and other things" may come with costs, risks and consequences.
NORAD is the bi-national Canadian and American command that is responsible for the air defense of North America and maritime warning. The command has three subordinate regional headquarters: the Alaskan NORAD Region at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska; the Canadian NORAD Region at Winnipeg, Manitoba; and the Continental NORAD Region at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla. The command is poised both tactically and strategically in our nation’s capital to provide a multilayered defense to detect, deter and prevent potential threats flying over the airspace of the United States and Canada.
Audio confirming two F 15s from the 142nd Wing of the Oregon Air National Guard ready to depart Portland for Montana to intercept UFO (maybe a balloon).
This is what they are trained to do and should be doing particularly to protect military bases and sensitive infrastructure.
F15s made two supersonic flights from Portland to Seattle in the last 15 years, once when a small float plane violated a TFR during a Presidential visit and once when a plane was stolen from the airport by a baggage handler.
Video explaining pilot training and the most recent Portland scramble.
NORAD press release from 2010:
Anyone who violates a TFR may be met with deadly force. Is it not that simple? Once the National Guard F-15 is airborne, do you know who may give order to fire missile?
Imposing TFRs all over the place while authorizing secret drone flights over urban areas "for research and other things" may come with costs, risks and consequences.
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RockyMtns
Well-Known Member
Back to Felix's comments regarding collateral damage to wifi networks. The examples summarized are inconveniences.....with the exception of hospitals. Those hospitals have ethernets that can be relied on. Further, neither police nor military are on the 2.9 and 5.8 frequency bands. The problems cited by Felix are relatively insignificant as compared to the national security threat that the drones may pose. Check out the post on this site: "High-Power microwave force field knocks drone swarms from sky.
Chip
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Chip
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Autonomous DJI Waypoint Missions set to continue in the event of signal loss should also still continue, but not if GPS is also blocked.
NORAD and the men and women that protect our skies have a mission that is both necessary and constant. We certainly need to protect our military bases and interests.
I will however say whomever is creating reactionary plans for investigating "lights" or "incursions" needs to be either fired or enrolled in an economics class.
Assigning a couple of F-15's to investigate a "UFO" is the same as running out there and throwing stacks of money in the air hoping to scare the offender away. I am a veteran I know very well that every branch of the military has a few Beechcrafts lying around.
F-15:..... 90 Million. Cost per hour: 30 grand
Beech T-6C:.... 5 million. Cost per hour 500 bucks.
I too am proud of our military and it awesome tech but as a taxpayer I must say I would rather you leave the fancy stuff in the hanger.
I will however say whomever is creating reactionary plans for investigating "lights" or "incursions" needs to be either fired or enrolled in an economics class.
Assigning a couple of F-15's to investigate a "UFO" is the same as running out there and throwing stacks of money in the air hoping to scare the offender away. I am a veteran I know very well that every branch of the military has a few Beechcrafts lying around.
F-15:..... 90 Million. Cost per hour: 30 grand
Beech T-6C:.... 5 million. Cost per hour 500 bucks.
I too am proud of our military and it awesome tech but as a taxpayer I must say I would rather you leave the fancy stuff in the hanger.
AMann
Well-Known Member
Iran used GPS jamming and spoofing to capture US drones. The only way to avoid this is for a drone to use terrain mapping and dead reckoning.
It is - the Leonidas has been fielded by the US Military, though not currently within the Continental US
AMann
Well-Known Member
That’s the same as wire guided missiles, which are old tech. Earlier ones just required you to hold a sight on your target, later ones had you paint a target with a laser and the missile follows it while trailing a control wire behind it. SAMs use the same method. All of these have a limited range unlike what terrain following fully autonomous cruise missiles and AI enabled drones could achieve.
AMann
Well-Known Member
Maybe this will thwart jamming of at least the first generations of fully autonomous drone swarms- defense technology is getting really advanced at an alarming pace!
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Chip
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You make many good points. But these pilots fly their jets every day to train. NORAD called in the jets to take down the weather balloon. A lot of people think they should have done it much sooner. Remember that car sized drones flew over Langley AFB at 100 mph for 17 days straight. They flew directly over the rows and rows of 40 F-22 Raptors @$300 million per copy. I would think that about two nights into it would be time to summon direct air support to confirm and track the drones if they cannot do it electronically from ground. Check this out, retired Lt. Commander Alex Dietrich describes witnessing firsthand the famous tic tac UAP/UFO.
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