80% more run time than lipo

[djhoodrich]

Also if anyone is thinking about ordering titan batteries I have a discount code that will save you 10% on your order but you have to order it directly from the Titan website

Greetings! Thanks for your order. Sure! Use this code for 10% off: TitanPower-d6372457

7.0Ah 11.1v 120W Endurance

 

[MacIak]

With these batteries im really worried that they might overheat and fail. Not a desirable side-effect when several miles out!

 

[djhoodrich]

Here is how to estimate time of flight for any type of copter.
The Great Copter’s Theorem usage examples

 

[MacIak]

Also if anyone is thinking about ordering titan batteries I have a discount code that will save you 10% on your order but you have to order it directly from the Titan website 7.0Ah 11.1v 120W Endurance

Im about to order these (don't like to talk, do like to test)... discount no workie?

 

[MacIak]

Ordering from UK(in stock) to Netherlands....charging me $48 for shipping?! That;s sick! @GetTitanPower , jump in please!

 

[Ed209]

I even experimented with building my own back in the day. Was not worth it.

 

[Howdeedoodee]

Ordering from UK(in stock) to Netherlands....charging me $48 for shipping?! That;s sick! @GetTitanPower , jump in please!

I had the same $40 ish shipping, my first Titan cost 10$ shipping, why is the shipping now 4 x as much

 

[Howdeedoodee]

I've Emailed Titan to ask why my first battery cost $10 shipping but now they want $40-$50 dollars shipping because on their map they indicate they have a UK,EU and USA warehouse.
John from UK

 

[MacIak]

1.5watt boost mode to go with your batttery mod

Who made this vid? Does it boost the bird side too? Does it cause overheat?

 

[MacIak]

digdat0

Oh..off course. Was watching it in small window no sound..
Edit: The titan battery guy was here some time ago. Hopefully he will shed some light on this shipping thing. I normally tend to abandon vendors that operate like this, i do not find the shipping cost acceptable.

 

[MacIak]

.
.

You might want to remove these vids. Threads have been shut down here for less. I d refrain from discussing firmware mods too.

 

[ScottJD]

2.6Ah TITAN

Best flight times so far with this battery is 29 minutes 45 seconds Plus the Mavic battery has been re-charged 24 times

From what I saw on the pack tells me it's not enough.
11.1V pack
113W for 12 min max is 10 amp constant for 12 minutes
300W for <60 seconds is 27 Amps for <60 seconds

Don't look at the 2.6Ah or whatever Amp Hour rating. This mostly gives you a capacity rating for the packs voltage, but the amp hour rating doesn't say what the max constant amp discharge and peak discharge is. This is what you need to really know when it come to the mavic. Well first you really need to know what the total power consumed by the mavic is under all conditional. My point is you can have a higher Ah pack, but it might have more total capacity and do less constant discharge amperage.

Assuming it's a 1C pack and a charge rate of 2.6A, then the cells are probably 2600mAh cells.
If this is a 6 cell pack, then it's 3p3s to double the amperage.
If 2 cells paired together by 3 pairs only gives 10 Amps constant for a max of 12 minutes then this is DEFINITELY NOT the correct battery pack for the mavic.

You can not cool down the batteries by air flow, or heat compounds. If they are hot then you were over draining them, end of story. The seals are safety seals designed to vent from shorts and failures of the batteries. Some ways these seals fail by melting away caused by over heat. If you try to cool down the cells then your bypassing the safety.
What happens to a chemical that reaches a temperature at the point it combusts while it's contained in a metal canister???? Anyone???
Well if the seal doesn't break and release this pressure by venting properly then it explodes in this metal canister with shrapnel dispersing. This is why these batteries have this seal, this is why you don't add ways to cool them down like I've seen mentioned.
So stop now, don't even bother trying to work out the voltage reporting issue for flight time reported correctly, it doesn't matter.

So we know for sure now the mavic is pulling more then 10A drain, that was sort of a given assumption to tell you the truth. Voltage regulators will add heat and weight, weight will decrease flight times and add stress to the thrust needed to maintain flight, added thrust will drain more amperage and current. For a voltage regulator to do 30 amps while boosting the voltage then it will be a big regulator and need a big heat sink that will add more weight. Do you see a cycle yet?

Lets go back to my post of needing to figure out how much the mavic requires for flight in hover, flying, sports mode and what the highest drain is on punch outs in sports modes.
Then, and only then we can figure out what the best Li-Ion batteries would be for the mavic application that will handle the constant wattage needed for the full flight time. Theirs another thread that's looking into the logs and decifering logs to correctly figure out total wattage power consumption, let them finish fist and maybe Titan has a pack that might meet what they figure out is needed,

Or waist your money, buy the wrong batteries, possibly crash the mavic, possibly blow the battery up or vent them and catch the mavic on fire, possibly have a thermal runaway and let us know how it turns out. But don't expect sympathy from me or warranty coverage from DJI. But do everyone a favor and DO NOT fly these outside the house. One crash and bad press on top of everything else going on and they may stop all flights.

Food for thought, why do you think Titan checked in, read the thread, gave some legal words and rartngs of the batteries and never posted since then. I don't think he will be back anytime soon. As a new company I wouldn't want my batteries to be part of a big ores news of a drone crash from people modding them. It would hurt his company and he's trying to grow it and make something better.

Scott

 

[Howdeedoodee]

Trying thursday, got myself a thermal telemetry sensor attached to battery to keep a second by second eye on temperatures.

 

[Howdeedoodee]

Get Titan power said.
We're not giving up and have plans to further pursue options.

 

[djhoodrich]

From what I saw on the pack tells me it's not enough.
11.1V pack
113W for 12 min max is 10 amp constant for 12 minutes
300W for <60 seconds is 27 Amps for <60 seconds

Don't look at the 2.6Ah or whatever A p Hour rating. This mostly gives you a capacity rating for the packs voltage, but the amp hour rating doesn't say what the max constant amp discharge and peak discharge is. This is what you need to really know when it come to the mavic. Well first you really need to know what the total power consumed by the mavic is under all conditional. My point is you can have a higher Ah pack, but it might have more total capacity and do less constant discharge amperage.

Assuming it's a 1C pack and a charge rate of 2.6A, then the cells are probably 2600mAh cells.
If this is a 6 cell pack, then it's 3p3s to double the amperage.
If 2 cells paired together by 3 pairs only gives 10 Amps constant for a max of 12 minutes then this is DEFINITELY NOT the correct battery pack for the mavic.

You can not cool down the batteries by air flow, or heat compounds. If they are hot then you were over draining them, end of story. The seals are safety seals designed to vent from shorts and failures of the batteries. Some ways these seals fail by melting away caused by over heat. If you try to cool down the cells then your bypassing the safety.
What happens to a chemical that reaches a temperature at the point it combusts while it's contained in a metal canister???? Anyone???
Well of the seal doesn't break and release this pressure by venting properly then it explodes in this metal canister with shrapnel dispersing. This is why these batteries have this seal, this is why you don't add ways to cool them down like I've seen mentioned,
So stop now, don't even bother trying to work out the voltage reporting issue for flight time reported correctly, it doesn't matter.

So we know for sure now the mavic is pulling more then 10A drain, that was sort of a given assumption to tell you the truth. Voltage regulators will add heat and weight, weight will decrease flight times and add stress to the thrust needed to maintain flight, added thrust will drain more amperage and current. For a voltage regulator to do 30 amps while boosting the voltage then it will be a big regulator and need a big heat sink that will add more weight. Do you see a cycle yet?

Lets go back to my post of needing to figure out how much the mavic requires for flight in hover, flying, sports mode and what the highest drain is on punch outs in sports modes.
Then, and only then we can figure out what the best Li-Ion batteries would be for the mavic application that will handle the constant wattage needed for the full flight time. Theirs another thread that's looking into the logs and decifering logs to correctly figure out total wattage power consumption, let them finish fist and maybe Titan has a pack that might meet what they figure out is needed,

Or waist your money, buy the wrong batteries, possibly crash the mavic, possibly blow the battery up or vent them and catch the mavic on fire, possibly have a thermal runaway and let us know how it turns out. But don't expect sympathy from me or warranty coverage from DJI. But do everyone a favor and DO NOT fly these outside the house. One crash and bad press on top of everything else going on and they may stop all flights.

Food for thought, why do you think Titan checked in, read the thread, gave some legal words and raring of the batteries and never posted since then. I don't think he will be back anytime soon. Maybe someone should direct him to the other thread.

Scott

This was very well said I agree with you the battery is hot when I landed I'm going to test it one more time because it was 95° when I was flying the drone so maybe the temperature outside may have affected the battery I'm going to try it in the house with no sun on it because I have central air if the battery is still hot to the touch when I land I will not use it anymore

 

[Ed209]

I did the calculations with the P3 back in the day using DatCon to see how much amps the P3 pulled. It was interesting to see how much power different maneuvers took. And also interesting was when getting near critical low voltage how the packs would burn up and amperage would increase. One thing I learned from analyzing the logs was that when flying extreme distance (landing at 1%), I always left left stick locked forward. Even for the turnaround I just used right stick to turn around. The braking consumed more power than just keeping forward momentum. Also when coming in on fumes, I would ease throttle off so that braking wouldn't eat much power. I can guarantee this saved my *** from pluging into the bay a few times.

As far as the Mavic, I havent looked at the data outside of Airdata but Airdata shows some peaks of over 22.4A. If you were running dual packs it would be safe to run these Titans as the amperage is spread across all cells. I never had temp issues when testing the Titans on the P3. But they still underperformed. You are leaving so much power on the table because they are designed to run much lower than LiPo.

 

[ScottJD]

I did the calculations with the P3 back in the day using DatCon to see how much amps the P3 pulled. It was interesting to see how much power different maneuvers took. And also interesting was when getting near critical low voltage how the packs would burn up and amperage would increase. One thing I learned from analyzing the logs was that when flying extreme distance (landing at 1%), I always left left stick locked forward. Even for the turnaround I just used right stick to turn around. The braking consumed more power than just keeping forward momentum. Also when coming in on fumes, I would ease throttle off so that braking wouldn't eat much power. I can guarantee this saved my *** from pluging into the bay a few times.

As far as the Mavic, I havent looked at the data outside of Airdata but Airdata shows some peaks of over 22.4A. If you were running dual packs it would be safe to run these Titans as the amperage is spread across all cells. I never had temp issues when testing the Titans on the P3. But they still underperformed. You are leaving so much power on the table because they are designed to run much lower than LiPo.

I think even DJI notes that hovering will use more battery, this is because of the constant break and throttle balance of the motors to maintain that hovering position. You will always get more battery run time from flying with forward inertia.

The good Li-Po packs do have a drop off, but what's always made them better then NiMh and NiCD is the constant power as you mentioned. So even as the voltage drops, the amperage increases still maintaining the same power output since Voltage X Amp = Watts (power). But when they run out they drop off fast. This is also why the battery monitoring is done by the voltage since most of the time it's predicable at what voltage is the lowest before the lack drops off and based in this they can estimate the flight time left. I would hope better software and smarter flight controllers these days like using phones as part of the flight setup has the ability to sort of track your flight behavioral patterns and if you hover more, break more, or fly more and give even better estimates on remaining flight time.
But because of these new ways of tracking flight patterns for estimating remaining flight time with complex tracking and algorithms is also what makes it even harder to swap one type of battery for another. It's not just as simple as monitoring the voltage only these days, the more advanced the software is behind the monitoring makes it even harder to accurately substitute one type of battery for another.
Everyone wants accurate battery and flight time reporting, so DJI made this. But now just boosting the voltage of a different kind of battery to trick the software in reporting it correctly isn't that simple as it was a few years ago.
The more I read this topic and think about this, I also think we will never see 100% accurate battery and flight estimates from another type of battery without the ability to change the firmware code in the ESC's or main board, or even the app on the phones of some of the math is calculated in the phones. And it probably is doing this on the phone apps, why burn up doing calculations on the mavic processor and waist battery when the phone can do it in the app and extend the battery life on the mavic. Every little parts plays together for a much bigger picture that we will probably never see the full picture of with DJI proprietary lockdown way of doing things.

 

[Ed209]

You had me until "we will probably never see the full picture of with DJI proprietary lockdown way of doings things."

No so much an issue now. [emoji12]

 

[ScottJD]

You had me until "we will probably never see the full picture of with DJI proprietary lockdown way of doings things."

No so much an issue now. [emoji12]

I thought about mentioning that, but I'm sure they are fixing as we speak and these modes might only apply to some that keep the older firmware.
In most cases like jailbreak phones people upgrade firmware then regret it later, so only a small percentage are left with the old firmware to do these things going forward.

 

[Ed209]

I thought about mentioning that, but I'm sure they are fixing as we speak and these modes might only apply to some that keep the older firmware.
In most cases like jailbreak phones people upgrade firmware then regret it later, so only a small percentage are left with the old firmware to do these things going forward.

Not quite. You can roll your own firmware and push outside of DJI Assistant. You can roll your own app too. Not much need for DJI when you have an Army of intelligent people reverse engineering everything. I won't get into detail here because of the "PC Police" but there is not much needed for anything from DJI now. You can cherry pic modules from a firmware and build your own. Maybe future DJI products would be blocked but as it stands, the power is with the "people".