Air 3 vs DSLR Experiment - Help needed again... Thank you!! (First result in...)

[Bussty]

Hi there!

I have made a bold claim that using the 70mm Air 3 lens and stitching a grid of photos to match a 24mm image you can create a 65MP or larger file that would match or exceed a DSLR camera 24mm image.

This is so far theory as I don't own an Air 3 to test yet but if DJI implement one-button-True-High-Res-mode using the 70mm I certainly will as the Air 3 would become a truly remarkable photo platform in the sky.

So... I was hoping someone could do a test for me which involves taking 3 photos, 2 with the Air 3 and one with a DSLR or Mirrorless camera. Thinking is simple, line up the drone at head height (unless you can fly your DSLR around ) take a picture with the 24mm wide lens then from the same spot pointing to he centre of the scene but not matching the range of view, capture a single shot with the 70mm then grab your DSLR and capture the same scene at 24mm then basically pixel peep! Can someone kindly undertake this test??

Details...

1. Find a spot to take the photos, could be your backyard does not matter, but just make sure the scene has plenty of details with lots of light.
2. Crank up the Air 3 and take it to about head height.
3. Using manual or auto exposure (as long as exposed correctly) capture a scene with the 24mm wide lens (RAW best)
4. Now from the exact same spot switch to 70mm and take a shot of the centre of the scene not moving the drone. (RAW best)
5. Now grab your DSLR/Mirrorless camera and attach a 24mm equivalent lens to cover the exact same field of view as the 24mm drone shot. So...
   • 24mm lens if Fullframe system
   • 15mm lens if Crop Sensor APS-C system
   • 12mm lens if Micro 4/3 system
6. Place the camera in the same spot the drone was located and using the 24mm equivalent capture a shot matching as close as you can the view if the 24mm wide on the Air 3 (RAW best)
7. Then if you could post a link here to the RAW files would be awesome.

Thanks so much and hopefully someone will be able to oblige.

Goal? To see if in fact the resolution of the Air 70mm Tele (if used in a 16 shot stitch - not that we are taking 16 images in this test) equals or surpasses that of a DSLR/Mirrorless Image


Many thanks

Andrew Busst

P.S. If you haven't already and you think it is a good idea to have an automated 16 stitch stills option using the 70mm on the Air 3 please vote here so we let DJI know we would find this a valuable addition. Thank you!
DJI The case for TRUE High Res on the Air 3 – Please Vote

 

[SkyeHigh]

Hi there!

I have made a bold claim that using the 70mm Air 3 lens and stitching a grid of photos to match a 24mm image you can create a 65MP or larger file that would match or exceed a DSLR camera 24mm image.

This is so far theory as I don't own an Air 3 to test yet but if DJI implement one-button-True-High-Res-mode using the 70mm I certainly will as the Air 3 would become a truly remarkable photo platform in the sky.

So... I was hoping someone could do a test for me which involves taking 3 photos, 2 with the Air 3 and one with a DSLR or Mirrorless camera. Thinking is simple, line up the drone at head height (unless you can fly your DSLR around ) take a picture with the 24mm wide lens then from the same spot pointing to he centre of the scene but not matching the range of view, capture a single shot with the 70mm then grab your DSLR and capture the same scene at 24mm then basically pixel peep! Can someone kindly undertake this test??

Details...

1. Find a spot to take the photos, could be your backyard does not matter, but just make sure the scene has plenty of details with lots of light.
2. Crank up the Air 3 and take it to about head height.
3. Using manual or auto exposure (as long as exposed correctly) capture a scene with the 24mm wide lens (RAW best)
4. Now from the exact same spot switch to 70mm and take a shot of the centre of the scene not moving the drone. (RAW best)
5. Now grab your DSLR/Mirrorless camera and attach a 24mm equivalent lens to cover the exact same field of view as the 24mm drone shot. So...
   • 24mm lens if Fullframe system
   • 15mm lens if Crop Sensor APS-C system
   • 12mm lens if Micro 4/3 system
6. Place the camera in the same spot the drone was located and using the 24mm equivalent capture a shot matching as close as you can the view if the 24mm wide on the Air 3 (RAW best)
7. Then if you could post a link here to the RAW files would be awesome.

Thanks so much and hopefully someone will be able to oblige.

Goal? To see if in fact the resolution of the Air 70mm Tele (if used in a 16 shot stitch - not that we are taking 16 images in this test) equals or surpasses that of a DSLR/Mirrorless Image


Many thanks

Andrew Busst

P.S. If you haven't already and you think it is a good idea to have an automated 16 stitch stills option using the 70mm on the Air 3 please vote here so we let DJI know we would find this a valuable addition. Thank you!
DJI The case for TRUE High Res on the Air 3 – Please Vote

The camera and lens in any consumer/pro-sumer drone will never match a DSLR/Mirrorless camera. The image sensor is substantially smaller, less sensitive and noisier and the lens (often plastic) will never be as sharp as that of a DSLR/Mirrorless camera with a real glass lens or such good control of distortion, chromatic aberration, noise…

Trying to stitch an image with so many frames will rarely correct for all the distortion in each shot.

 

[Bussty]

The camera and lens in any consumer/pro-sumer drone will never match a DSLR/Mirrorless camera. The image sensor is substantially smaller, less sensitive and noisier and the lens (often plastic) will never be as sharp as that of a DSLR/Mirrorless camera with a real glass lens or such good control of distortion, chromatic aberration, noise…

Trying to stitch an image with so many frames will rarely correct for all the distortion in each shot.

Hey SkyeHigh thanks for your prediction I'll let you know how the results compare.

 

[Mikeboruta]

Bussty - I have an Air 3 and most of the photographic work I do involves stitching big panoramas. I recently upgraded to the Air 3 from the Mavic 2pro & P4pv2. I have to say, I love just about everything about the Air 3...except the camera quality. Generally I'm finding that it is quite good for what it is and I have to make less color and tonal adjustments to the raw images. But, the lower resolution is noticeably disappointing after using drones with 1" sensors for the past several years. Also, the chromatic aberration is often REALLY bad. There is so much purple fringing in high-contrast areas of images that I'm just dragging the "color noise" slider in LR all the way to 100. Luckily, that helps a lot. All that said, I still love the drone and could make a pretty long list of how it beats my trusty Mavic2pro in other categories.


I have experimented with using the 70mm lens to capture panoramas. You have to take a TON of photos to cover an area equivalent to what you'd seen in the normal wide lens, and this ends up requiring a lot of computer power and memory to stitch. But the results can be quite good. I posted two panos to a Google Drive folder for you to examine. The 70mm pano was stitched from 104 images, the 24mm pano was stitched from from 16 images. "Auto" settings were applied to both upon stitch and they were shot from roughly the same location, give or take 100-200 feet. These were processed from the 12mp raw stills. I don't have a DSLR to compare with but hopefully these two panos will give you a sense of the Air's capabilities for panorama resolution with the 70mm lens.

Here are the files: Air 3 Panos - Google Drive

Let me know what you think. I voted on your link at the DJI support page. I don't ever use the panorama jpgs stitched in-camera, but I do think automated panos for the 70mm would be nice so I don't have to manually shoot all those 100+ images. I wouldn't mind it if they let you shoot bracketed panos too!

 

[Bussty]

Bussty - I have an Air 3 and most of the photographic work I do involves stitching big panoramas. I recently upgraded to the Air 3 from the Mavic 2pro & P4pv2. I have to say, I love just about everything about the Air 3...except the camera quality. Generally I'm finding that it is quite good for what it is and I have to make less color and tonal adjustments to the raw images. But, the lower resolution is noticeably disappointing after using drones with 1" sensors for the past several years. Also, the chromatic aberration is often REALLY bad. There is so much purple fringing in high-contrast areas of images that I'm just dragging the "color noise" slider in LR all the way to 100. Luckily, that helps a lot. All that said, I still love the drone and could make a pretty long list of how it beats my trusty Mavic2pro in other categories.


I have experimented with using the 70mm lens to capture panoramas. You have to take a TON of photos to cover an area equivalent to what you'd seen in the normal wide lens, and this ends up requiring a lot of computer power and memory to stitch. But the results can be quite good. I posted two panos to a Google Drive folder for you to examine. The 70mm pano was stitched from 104 images, the 24mm pano was stitched from from 16 images. "Auto" settings were applied to both upon stitch and they were shot from roughly the same location, give or take 100-200 feet. These were processed from the 12mp raw stills. I don't have a DSLR to compare with but hopefully these two panos will give you a sense of the Air's capabilities for panorama resolution with the 70mm lens.

Here are the files: Air 3 Panos - Google Drive

Let me know what you think. I voted on your link at the DJI support page. I don't ever use the panorama jpgs stitched in-camera, but I do think automated panos for the 70mm would be nice so I don't have to manually shoot all those 100+ images. I wouldn't mind it if they let you shoot bracketed panos too!

Wow! Mike that Pano is stunning and the 70mm version takes it to a whole other level. If you have time on your hands then DJI incorporating the ability to to do 360 degrees or 180 degrees automated pano certainly has it's place.

My current "crusade", if you like, talks to how you are finding a big difference in dropping down from the inch sensor of the Mavic 2 Pro (or even 4/3 of the Mavic 3 Pro) to the 1/1.3inch Air 3. For high quality 24mm output single view from the Air 3 I'm saying just take a quick and dirty automatic 16 frames and then either stitch in camera (I never do that) or in a Panorama Software (currently use Panorama Studio 3 enjoying that over PTGUI which I aways used to use.) I think (and this is where the comparison with a DSLR lens will confirm) that this approach for a singe 24mm view will beat anything the large drones can provide with a single sensor frame. Of course they can adopt this approach to with their 70mm lens and it would be the same as the Air 3 as same sensor (I believe and if they used the bigger lens it would be even better. The maths just says it has to be better.

Once DJI has made that change it gives drone pilots a great way to quickly and accurately capture (hopefully) better than DSLR 24mm views (but I stand to be corrected on that)

Regards your image I do a lot of 360x180 panos and find just the 24mm 12MP sensor on the Mini 3 Pro great for that. Your shot reminds me a lot of where I live! This image is taken with the Mini 1 12MP and almost cuts it, the Mini 3 Pro is better (also like how the Mini 3 pro almost lets you get complete 100% coverage for 360x180 Panos)

Arrowtown Autumn 360 Panorama | 360Cities

Really hoping DJI will come to the party and make things next level for stills photographers.

Cheers

Bussty

 

[Bussty]

Hi have had a kind donor on the DJI Forum page and with thanks to Noob1957 I can post the following...

I think Noob1957 has just proven (first glance anyway as I need to get to bed and thought I would post this first before I do) that the Air 3 can indeed via a 16 shot stitch match, infact completely better, the result taken by a Sony FF Digital Camera.

Here are my findings on the first image, I'll try and do the other tomorrow.

So here is the full view AIr 3 on the left and Sony on the right. The Sony should easily be better but you probably won't see it on the size I have had to crop these images. They are just to set the scene really...




Now on to the real meat and bones of the test. So the image on the left is from the Air 3 using the 70mm lens not moving the drone from the first shot. It's then zoomed to 200%, the image on the right is the same shot as above taken with the FF Sony but blown up to match about 405%...



...it is super clear that the Air 3 is SIGNIFICANTLY sharper with more detail than the Sony FF Digital Camera.

I'll try the same on the other scene as one result does not a conclusion make! But it is looking really promising. This is showing that using a 16 grid stitch of the Air 3 Tele lens you can "make" a 24mm image of greater clarity than if if you had a DSLR in the air!!! This is awesome news

Please every one vote on the DJI Forum page to let them know this is a must have for the Air 3.

Many thanks

Andrew Busst (Bussty)

 

[Bussty]

The camera and lens in any consumer/pro-sumer drone will never match a DSLR/Mirrorless camera. The image sensor is substantially smaller, less sensitive and noisier and the lens (often plastic) will never be as sharp as that of a DSLR/Mirrorless camera with a real glass lens or such good control of distortion, chromatic aberration, noise…

Trying to stitch an image with so many frames will rarely correct for all the distortion in each shot.

Hey SkyeHigh check out the results above is looking really promising, will do some more testing tomorrow. Also look at this link and you will see that the 16 70mm images stitched together perfectly actually removing some of the distortion that existed in the original 24mm view...

Asking DJI to code a TRUE High Res Mode for Air 3 please vote. No hardware changes required...

Hello there. I have started a poll over on the DJI forum to ask DJI to have a mode that will capture a grid of tele photo lens images to match the 24mm wide angle view providing a true 65MP image (unheard of in a drone of the Air 3's class). You can do this now manually of course but my vision...

mavicpilots.com

 

[Wreckhunter]

Hi there!

I have made a bold claim that using the 70mm Air 3 lens and stitching a grid of photos to match a 24mm image you can create a 65MP or larger file that would match or exceed a DSLR camera 24mm image.

This is so far theory as I don't own an Air 3 to test yet but if DJI implement one-button-True-High-Res-mode using the 70mm I certainly will as the Air 3 would become a truly remarkable photo platform in the sky.

So... I was hoping someone could do a test for me which involves taking 3 photos, 2 with the Air 3 and one with a DSLR or Mirrorless camera. Thinking is simple, line up the drone at head height (unless you can fly your DSLR around ) take a picture with the 24mm wide lens then from the same spot pointing to he centre of the scene but not matching the range of view, capture a single shot with the 70mm then grab your DSLR and capture the same scene at 24mm then basically pixel peep! Can someone kindly undertake this test??

Details...

1. Find a spot to take the photos, could be your backyard does not matter, but just make sure the scene has plenty of details with lots of light.
2. Crank up the Air 3 and take it to about head height.
3. Using manual or auto exposure (as long as exposed correctly) capture a scene with the 24mm wide lens (RAW best)
4. Now from the exact same spot switch to 70mm and take a shot of the centre of the scene not moving the drone. (RAW best)
5. Now grab your DSLR/Mirrorless camera and attach a 24mm equivalent lens to cover the exact same field of view as the 24mm drone shot. So...
   • 24mm lens if Fullframe system
   • 15mm lens if Crop Sensor APS-C system
   • 12mm lens if Micro 4/3 system
6. Place the camera in the same spot the drone was located and using the 24mm equivalent capture a shot matching as close as you can the view if the 24mm wide on the Air 3 (RAW best)
7. Then if you could post a link here to the RAW files would be awesome.

Thanks so much and hopefully someone will be able to oblige.

Goal? To see if in fact the resolution of the Air 70mm Tele (if used in a 16 shot stitch - not that we are taking 16 images in this test) equals or surpasses that of a DSLR/Mirrorless Image


Many thanks

Andrew Busst

P.S. If you haven't already and you think it is a good idea to have an automated 16 stitch stills option using the 70mm on the Air 3 please vote here so we let DJI know we would find this a valuable addition. Thank you!
DJI The case for TRUE High Res on the Air 3 – Please Vote

In theory,as you yourself do not own the Air 3,but it sounds good.

 

[Bussty]

In theory,as you yourself do not own the Air 3,but it sounds good

Not sure I follow?

 

[Wreckhunter]

Not sure I follow?

How do you yourself know this will work if you do not own and have no experience with the Air 3.
Most drone photographers will not spend all that time trying to stitch together 16 photos to create 1.
So you have an idea,which there is nothing wrong with .But that is about it an idea.If you are trying to convince
DJI this is a good idea,then I would say good luck with that.

 

[Meta4]

Also look at this link and you will see that the 16 70mm images stitched together perfectly actually removing some of the distortion that existed in the original 24mm view...

Where to look to see this in the link?
What "distortion that existed in the original 24mm view"?

 

[Bussty]

Where to look to see this in the link?
What "distortion that existed in the original 24mm view"?

Asking DJI to code a TRUE High Res Mode for Air 3 please vote. No hardware changes required...

Hello there. I have started a poll over on the DJI forum to ask DJI to have a mode that will capture a grid of tele photo lens images to match the 24mm wide angle view providing a true 65MP image (unheard of in a drone of the Air 3's class). You can do this now manually of course but my vision...

mavicpilots.com

 

[Bussty]

How do you yourself know this will work if you do not own and have no experience with the Air 3.
Most drone photographers will not spend all that time trying to stitch together 16 photos to create 1.
So you have an idea,which there is nothing wrong with .But that is about it an idea.If you are trying to convince
DJI this is a good idea,then I would say good luck with that.

Hey there firsthobby

I own a Mini 1 and Mini 3 Pro which I believe has a similar sensor to the Air 3 but you are right I don't own an Air 3 and I haven't personally had the experience of a tele lens on a drone yet, however I have had over 3 years experience with drones and it has become clear to me that especially down at the Mini and even to an extent the Mavic level there is a difference in quality in stills compared to a DSLR camera and that is what I'm trying to address. Luckily existing owners of the Air 3 have helped me collect real data on this idea to prove it is very possible.

If we can convince DJI to automate the process it will take about as much time to take as a Wide Angle Pano and way less time than a full 360 pano.

I really think if drone photographers know they can get quality as good or better than a DSLR (even approaching a DSLR) they will be more than happy to stitch 16 images, using PanoramaStudio3 it takes less than a minute to stitch. For big prints this technique delivers outstanding detail which you just can not achieve with a single wide shot.

I look at all the ideas started in these forums in the past... Waypoints for the Mini, 360 avoidance for the Mini, effectively return of the tripod mode across most drones, 360 stitching on the Mavic 3 using the tele lens and these all have become reality just like I'm hoping the idea of effortlessly capturing a high res image of a 24mm scene will become a reality also.

Cheers

 

[Meta4]

That wasn't distortion.
You've just noticed a subtle change in the perspective shown by each lens.

View attachment 169256

 

[Bussty]

That wasn't distortion.
You've just noticed a subtle change in the perspective shown by each lens.

Perspective distortion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Meta4]

Perspective distortion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Different lenses with different focal lengths show a different perspective.
The case you are talking about isn't "actually removing some of the distortion that existed in the original 24mm view"
It's replacing the perspective of one lens with the perspective of a different lens.

 

[Bussty]

Different lenses with different focal lengths show a different perspective.
The case you are talking about isn't "actually removing some of the distortion that existed in the original 24mm view"
It's replacing the perspective of one lens with the perspective of a different lens.

True but don't you think it looks more natural and without that edge curved perspective that wide angle lens gives? Ultimate goal here is to make a higher quality image.

 

[Meta4]

True but don't you think it looks more natural and without that edge curved perspective that wide angle lens gives? Ultimate goal here is to make a higher quality image.

It's not a case of wideangle perspective = bad and tele perspective =good.
If it was that simple photographers wouldn't use wideangle lenses.

 

[rddl]

True but don't you think it looks more natural and without that edge curved perspective that wide angle lens gives? Ultimate goal here is to make a higher quality image.

No, I do not. Because the height of the drone was not the same, and what are we supposed to see ? A straight road would offer a better comparison.
Buildings in the background also offer another perspective !
Could you convert your tiff file to jpg, same compression level, so that we can compare
or,
could you replace your left jpg with the raw image to be able to compare both pictures.

Many stitching artifacts, everywhere, with your tiff file examples below ...


Your tiff file has a blue dominant color.

 

[Bussty]

No, I do not. Because the height of the drone was not the same, and what are we supposed to see ? A straight road would offer a better comparison.
Buildings in the background also offer another perspective !
Could you convert your tiff file to jpg, same compression level, so that we can compare
or,
could you replace your left jpg with the raw image to be able to compare both pictures.

Many stitching artifacts, everywhere, with your tiff file examples below ...
View attachment 169258

Your tiff file has a blue dominant color.View attachment 169257

Hi there ok so...

These were only supplied in jpeg so final results could be much better if RAW. Original poster provide files here Favour please??? (Thank you! Job done the Air 3 is a beast!)

This was a dump and stitch so if you do a lot of stitching you'll know with a little work any stitch seams could be removed.

The blue cast is just the colour balancing of the stitch software and again easily adjusted.

If you look at the lineup of the buildings the drone is at same height you are just seeing changes in perspective.