Altitude Mini 2

[izometric]

UK is one of the member countries of EASA. So it is about EASA regulations, not "British Law"

 

[netfolks2000]

The wind can be very much stronger up high. There is more risk of a huge drift in one direction or another. I live in a very rural area and even I don't want to try that. Too much forest and vast area to ever try to find a drone if it came down or drifted so far it could not make it back. You can be sure, though, that there will be some "risk takers" that don't further drone innovation but curtail it by invoking new stricter laws when they cause disruption thru their actions.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

UK is one of the member countries of EASA. So it is about EASA regulations, not "British Law"

As I understand it, the implimentation of these EASA rules is reponsibility of the individual governments. Whilst the rules may have been developed in accordance with and as part of EASA it is the individual governments that enforce them.
If I break them I am pretty sure any prosecution will be brought by "The Crown" or maybe the CAA, not the EU and certainly not the FAA, so as such I see the rules as British Law.

Drones | Civil Aviation Authority

 

[izometric]

Not really. EASA regulations are an effort to unify the air space regulations to achieve a superior air space safety consistency.

Before that (december 2020), every EU country had its own regulations which made it very difficult to follow and comply with.

If you want is like EN norms or the Eurocode for constructions.. Without the Eurocode it would be practically impossible for an engineer to practice in different EU countries.

With EASA regulations you can be sure that a certified pilot in Luxembourg will be able to respect the same rules in Greece, without having to read a whole new manual and a dozen local regulations.

 

[Rich QR]

So is there any country you can fly your Mini 2 legally above 400ft?

Yes. In the USA, if you have a Part 107 license and are flying under Part 107 rules, the altitude limit is 400 ft above the top of the highest structure within 400 feet.

So if you are licensed and hired to inspect a tower that is 1000 ft tall, you may legally fly up to 1400 ft above the base of the tower. This might put you into controlled airspace, requiring authorization, but it is not prohibited.

There is also the possibility of terrain causing you to be more than 400 ft above your launch point while remaining less than 400 ft AGL.

 

[Paleomanjim]

I believe it is a breach of regulations for manned aircraft to fly below 400 ft unless they are approaching for landing in controlled air space (no fly for UAS).

Not sure about the Police, but technically they are in breach of airspace regulations if they are flying too low. The flight ceilings do not (and should not) overlap.

By the way, you will always wrongly estimate the height of a large aircraft. Whatever height you estimated, it was probably wrong.

As a liscensed private pilot I can tell you that is not uncommon for pilots to fly below the allowable ceiling. While pilots are most always aware of their altitude at all times, they often are not aware of the ground elevation they are flying over. In other cases some pilots just want to experience the thrill of flying low often times over their own house or neighborhood. Of course it is illegal but it happens all the same. For that reason drone pilots should not assume that planes are flying at the legal altitude. If they appear to by flying low, assume they are and land or lower the elevation of your drone immediatly.

 

[old man mavic]

@PhiliusFoggg ,@izometric ,gentlemen Gentlemen ,while it is true that the EASA rules governing airspace are a joint effort by all countries involved ,it is also a fact that each individual member will have their own interpretations of implementation specific to their countries airspace ,which in the UK is the CAA in order for these requirements to be enforceable in Law then they have to be passed through the legal process of each country ,and in that respect they will become British law

 

[izometric]

What is the purpose of passing a new law when they adhered to a group of countries that make common laws and regulations in a specific but very common domain, like air space?

Any presumably future British law will say EASA is the law. So in this regard you may be right.

 

[old man mavic]

although we are no longer a member of the EU when it comes to shared interests ,with regards to the administration of airspace then there is always going to be a shared common interest, so that commercial aircraft can safely fly in airspace other than their own ,that has not changed ,with regards to unmanned aircraft apart from weapons of war ,then many countries have there own interpretation of what is allowed in their country ,regardless of what rules for manned aircraft they are following, for drones they set height limits, distance limits, and airspace restrictions, to suit there individual needs and laws

 

[Camino Ken]

I believe it is a breach of regulations for manned aircraft to fly below 400 ft unless they are approaching for landing in controlled air space (no fly for UAS).

Not sure about the Police, but technically they are in breach of airspace regulations if they are flying too low. The flight ceilings do not (and should not) overlap.

By the way, you will always wrongly estimate the height of a large aircraft. Whatever height you estimated, it was probably wrong.

I don’t know about Belgium but in the US a VRF pilot can fly as low as they want as long as they are 500ft away from any structure or person. For example, a VRF pilot can be 500ft from the shore and fly until the wheels tough the water and still be legal. Another example is crop dusting, which is typically done at 50ft and lower. Over built-up areas the minimum is 1000ft.

 

[Paleomanjim]

I don’t know about Belgium but in the US a VRF pilot can fly as low as they want as long as they are 500ft away from any structure or person. For example, a VRF pilot can be 500ft from the shore and fly until the wheels tough the water and still be legal. Another example is crop dusting, which is typically done at 50ft and lower. Over built-up areas the minimum is 1000ft.

I got my license in 1970. What I remember most about my flight instructor is him constanty pulling back on the throttle and asking me where am I going to land? I expected that on every flight. The idea was that pilots should always have a spot picked out for emergency landing at all times and maintain enough altitude to be able to reach it. Not a legal limit, but a safety expectation. With a glide ratio of 12/1 a small plane at 1000' elevation has a max glide distance of around 2 miles. I can tell you from personal experience that panic sets in below 300' elevation and the best plans may be discarded, having come within 100' of having to land on Lake Nacimento after engine failure. That said, most cross country pilots back then flew around 4,000' to 8,000' and I usually did have a spot picked out just in case. But when I would take my buddies up we often went out to the desert and landed on dry lake beds. On other occasions I would fly out over the ocean just skimming the waves for the sheer fun of it. Yeah it was crazy but it was fun and legal. These are different times, but human nature is what it is and pilots will fly low in remote areas. Drone pilots should not expect that plane/helicopter pilots will be above 400'.

 

[Camino Ken]

I got my license in 1970. What I remember most about my flight instructor is him constanty pulling back on the throttle and asking me where am I going to land? I expected that on every flight. The idea was that pilots should always have a spot picked out for emergency landing at all times and maintain enough altitude to be able to reach it. Not a legal limit, but a safety expectation. With a glide ratio of 12/1 a small plane at 1000' elevation has a max glide distance of around 2 miles. I can tell you from personal experience that panic sets in below 300' elevation and the best plans may be discarded, having come within 100' of having to land on Lake Nacimento after engine failure. That said, most cross country pilots back then flew around 4,000' to 8,000' and I usually did have a spot picked out just in case. But when I would take my buddies up we often went out to the desert and landed on dry lake beds. On other occasions I would fly out over the ocean just skimming the waves for the sheer fun of it. Yeah it was crazy but it was fun and legal. These are different times, but human nature is what it is and pilots will fly low in remote areas. Drone pilots should not expect that plane/helicopter pilots will be above 400'.

I agree. I actually flew much higher than necessary because I remember a flight instructor telling me that “altitude is your friend”. It gives you more time to plan and execute an emergency landing if necessary.

I was actually just commenting on the legality of it not that I was encouraging the behavior.

 

[dixter]

Drone at 400ft. Kite at 200ft. Low flying planes below 200ft. Going to be problem. They don’t mix well

 

[Zbip57]

So is there any country you can fly your Mini 2 legally above 400ft?

In Canada none of the other restrictions, including the 400ft restriction, apply to the Mini 2 as it weighs less than 250 grams.

With some important exceptions, the only regulation that does apply is 900.06 which says, "No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person."

Of course if you choose to fly higher than 400ft, that might well be interpreted as reckless or negligent, and almost certainly would be interpreted as such if it resulted in an accident.

The exceptions are Flight Restrictions such as those that exist over our Parliament Bldgs, Niagara Falls, prisons, etc. Such restrictions explicitly apply to ALL remotely piloted aircraft, including those weighing less than 250 grams.

 

[Fun Flyer]

In Canada none of the other restrictions, including the 400ft restriction, apply to the Mini 2 as it weighs less than 250 grams.

With some important exceptions, the only regulation that does apply is 900.06 which says, "No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person."

Of course if you choose to fly higher than 400ft, that might well be interpreted as reckless or negligent, and almost certainly would be interpreted as such if it resulted in an accident.

The exceptions are Flight Restrictions such as those that exist over our Parliament Bldgs, Niagara Falls, prisons, etc. Such restrictions explicitly apply to ALL remotely piloted aircraft, including those weighing less than 250 grams.

Hi Zbip57. I’ve attached a photo of the TC rules for micro drones which the Mini 2 falls under. It does state that you should not fly above 400’ AGL. so not sure where you found information stating otherwise.

 

[Zbip57]

Hi Zbip57. I’ve attached a photo of the TC rules for micro drones which the Mini 2 falls under. It does state that you SHOULD not fly above 400’ AGL. so not sure where you found information stating otherwise.

Read that TC information carefully and note how they have divided their brochure into two distinct sections. There is a legal distinction between what you MUST versus what you SHOULD do...

Everything listed under MUST is what actually applies to sub-250 gram RPAS within the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARS). See this link to the index of the CARS.

Start right at the top at: 101.01 - Interpretation
then scroll down the alphabetical list of definitions to find:

"small remotely piloted aircraft means a remotely piloted aircraft that has a maximum take-off weight of at least 250 g (0.55 pounds) but not more than 25 kg (55 pounds);"

Now back up to the CARS index and scroll all the way down to:
900.01 - Part IX — Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems
Start reading...
900.02 This Part [i.e. all of Part IX] applies in respect of the operation of remotely piloted aircraft systems [i.e. including sub-250].

Click to the next page.

Reckless or Negligent Operation
"900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person."

Note: that one does apply to all RPAS, including sub-250.

Immediately after that we get to:
901.01 - Subpart 1 — Small Remotely Piloted Aircraft
Note: sub-250 are not included in this section or anything else that follows.

Conclusion: 900.06 is the only regulation directly applicable to sub-250 gram RPAS, with the exception of other general Flight Restricted zones, National Parks, Municipal Parks, etc.

You MUST obey this regulation 900.06.

Flying above 400ft, or buzzing the control tower in controlled airspace with your sub-250 gram drone, could reasonably be interpreted as reckless or negligent. Therefore TC strongly recommends that you SHOULD not do those things.

So even though 900.06 is vaguely open to interpretation vis-a-vis what exactly is considered reckless or negligent, if enough people do stupid things with their sub-250 drones, Transport Canada might eventually tighten their regulations. Therefore, you really SHOULD be smart about where and how you fly.

 

[Zbip57]

Don explains it best. Be sure to watch the bit after 5:05 as well.

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[Bobell69]

I wounder if anyone has ever tried it

There are a couple of youtube videos out there where people have tried it. One I remember had a maximum altitude that he reached and the drone wouldn't allow itself to go any higher.

 

[Bobell69]

Read that TC information carefully and note how they have divided their brochure into two distinct sections. There is a legal distinction between what you MUST versus what you SHOULD do...

Everything listed under MUST is what actually applies to sub-250 gram RPAS within the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARS). See this link to the index of the CARS.

Start right at the top at: 101.01 - Interpretation
then scroll down the alphabetical list of definitions to find:

"small remotely piloted aircraft means a remotely piloted aircraft that has a maximum take-off weight of at least 250 g (0.55 pounds) but not more than 25 kg (55 pounds);"

Now back up to the CARS index and scroll all the way down to:
900.01 - Part IX — Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems
Start reading...
900.02 This Part [i.e. all of Part IX] applies in respect of the operation of remotely piloted aircraft systems [i.e. including sub-250].

Click to the next page.

Reckless or Negligent Operation
"900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person."

Note: that one does apply to all RPAS, including sub-250.

Immediately after that we get to:
901.01 - Subpart 1 — Small Remotely Piloted Aircraft
Note: sub-250 are not included in this section or anything else that follows.

Conclusion: 900.06 is the only regulation directly applicable to sub-250 gram RPAS, with the exception of other general Flight Restricted zones, National Parks, Municipal Parks, etc.

You MUST obey this regulation 900.06.

Flying above 400ft, or buzzing the control tower in controlled airspace with your sub-250 gram drone, could reasonably be interpreted as reckless or negligent. Therefore TC strongly recommends that you SHOULD not do those things.

So even though 900.06 is vaguely open to interpretation vis-a-vis what exactly is considered reckless or negligent, if enough people do stupid things with their sub-250 drones, Transport Canada might eventually tighten their regulations. Therefore, you really SHOULD be smart about where and how you fly.

I read on the Federal site that the 400foot rule does apply to the sub 250 drone class as well.

 

[hiflyer201]

The Mini 2 can fly up to 1650 ft i believe although its illegal and we are limited to 400ft but whats stopping the Drone going higher than the max hight ??

All aircraft have a max service and absolute ceiling. As Meta says..it's hardwired and It won't go any faster with a tailwind either. At least drones won't.