Any Airplane Techies here

[MavicFT1P]

I understand it is old news.
But I am Curious as to the logisitics/mechanical effects of an entire flleet of Boeing 737 Max sitting on the ground for 6 (or more) months?

I know from combustion engines, and other vehicle systems (Hyrdraulics etc) that the worst thing you can do to them
is not use them.

Can an Airliner be prepped for long term storage, without some major work/servicing when there ready to fly again?


* To be fair, my concern stems from an episode of ACI i saw where a 757 had been ununsed on the tarmac for a month (the company had gone chapter 13 or something) and when it was finally flown, it had wasps nest blocking the pieto static tubes, and caused a horrible crash.

 

[Starz]

Probably some didn’t know the term “pre-flight”.

 

[Former Member]

Great series: Netflix: City in the Sky

Season 1 Episode 3

Starts at 42m explaining how aircraft are stored in the desert until they are ready to be put back into service.

 

[MavicFT1P]

Probably some didn’t know the term “pre-flight”.

Are you referring to Flight 701?

I think the "do not remove before flight" tags has been removed before flight in this case, hence the internal blockage,

Either way the pilot/crew arernt here to defend, so proabably best not to speak ill of them

 

[Starz]

All I’m saying is there may have been a lacking in the pre-flight.

 

[MavicFT1P]

Great series: Netflix: City in the Sky

Season 1 Episode 3

Starts at 42m explaining how aircraft are stored in the desert until they are ready to be put back into service.

Interesting. Lots of dc-10/md-9/747-100s waiting to be repainted I see.

I kid, there were obviously some there legitimate "resting/in transit" models there.
But I didnt see any 737 MAX

Doco guy: "is there a time limit to how you can keep a plane in the desert"
Worker: "indefinitely, for instance we checked the tire pressures on this plane today" Lol

The scene is practically the same as one from another doco in regards to retired military aircraft in Nevada.
B-52 graveyards, with everything from f-104's to early F-16's scattered between.
The perception put forth that in the event of war, they could be redeemed to airworthiness.

A sad sight, as you know the only way they are getting one airworthy working is by gutting/melting down the 10 next to it.

 

[MavicFT1P]

All I’m saying is there may have been a lacking in the pre-flight.

and there was. Fair enough

 

[Kilrah]

There is some work involved but it's very common and nothing major. The cost of prepping for storage and taking back out is likely a drop in the ocean compared to the other losses caused by the mess.

 

[Saigondroner]

and there was. Fair enough

In this day and age, big data analysis knew every detail, and showed an unusual equipment problem, many airlines, with both long term, and noob aircrew mistakes.

 

[thatswedishguy]

Great series: Netflix: City in the Sky

Season 1 Episode 3

Starts at 42m explaining how aircraft are stored in the desert until they are ready to be put back into service.

The wonders of the internet. Global and without borders. Until someone invented geolocation and subsequently geo restrictions and thus made that show unavailable for me to watch on Netflix in Sweden. It does sound interesting.


I'm know more about small planes, but I would assume the same general measures are taken for large planes as well.
Pitot tubes and static ports are covered when the plane isn't going to be used for some time. For small planes this happens after every flight unless it's a short stop. Big airliners are rarely out of service for very long between flights, so no need to cover anything up at least not if it's stuck waiting at the gate.

Engine inlets are also covered, and I know the engines are covered on large jets as well. Basically anything where insects (and birds in large engines) can establish a new home base will be covered to prevent such occurrences to happen.

After sitting for a long duration, a plane would be checked out by a mechanic to make sure it's good to go. I would assume that engines would be inspected and tested on ground prior to flight to make sure there are no leaks and that all readings look good. The plane would be inspected for leaks of both hydraulic systems and fuel. If the batteries have not been kept charged they would likely have to be replaced or at the very least tested. Corrosion is another concern that would surely be looked at. Lubrication of anything that needs it. Tire inspections, break inspections. Make sure everything that should move does, and that everything that shouldn't move doesn't (no duct tape or WD40 allowed ?).

Basically a complete airworthiness check. Hopefully the planes are also taken on a test flight sans passengers prior to being taken back into regular service.

Many of these items are part of the regular preflight checklist done before every flight. Engines can of course not be tested completely before every flight, but a short test is part of every takeoff. The engines are spooled up to about 40% N1 (N1 is the speed of the fan on a turbofan engine) for a short while before being advanced to takeoff thrust to check that the readings look normal and that all engines perform similarly for symmetrical thrust.

 

[Ringopizza]

The easy answer is yes, aircraft can be stored long term without detriment as they have preventative and environmental maintenance carried out frequently during the storage period, including hand turn of internal engine components, check for leaks, rotation of tyres and fuel systems inhibited with oil to prevent corrosion. The maintenance regime depends on the environment for storage and is carried out as per the manufacturers approved data.

 

[Meta4]

I think the "do not remove before flight" tags has been removed before flight in this case, hence the internal blockage,

Wouldn't that be Remove Before Flight tags?

 

[MavicFT1P]

Thx meta. i think we were all losing sleep over that one =P

edit: In this case it was the removal before flight that caused the problem, so i might have must
have been thinking "do not remove until flight"

Maybe their should be more than one type of color/advice tag. Maybe there is.

The USS Forestall disaster. What did those tags say?

 

[Cymruflyer]

Tags state Remove Before Flight.

 

[validatekev]

Short term prep, long term storage regularly used for rotary and small aircraft, rarely used for large airliners as they need to fly to be economical to the airline. Boeing probably paying a hefty fee for Max debacle.

 

[Racin8de]

Absolutely, there's a good article about the US AIR FORCE just taking a B-52 out of preservation storage and bringing her back to the fleet..

Military Daily News

Daily updates of everything that you need know about what is going on in the military community and abroad including military gear and equipment, breaking news, international news and more.

www.military.com

 

[Mr. Salty]

The wonders of the internet. Global and without borders. Until someone invented geolocation and subsequently geo restrictions and thus made that show unavailable for me to watch on Netflix in Sweden.

There are plenty of free VPNs out there with U.S. servers.

 

[Thomas B]

Absolutely, there's a good article about the US AIR FORCE just taking a B-52 out of preservation storage and bringing her back to the fleet..

Military Daily News

Daily updates of everything that you need know about what is going on in the military community and abroad including military gear and equipment, breaking news, international news and more.

www.military.com

This definitely speaks to proper care. I don’t think a B52 airframe has been built de novo since about 1964.

 

[MavicFT1P]

The wonders of the internet. Global and without borders. Until someone invented geolocation and subsequently geo restrictions and thus made that show unavailable for me to watch on Netflix in Sweden. It does sound interesting.


I'm know more about small planes, but I would assume the same general measures are taken for large planes as well.
Pitot tubes and static ports are covered when the plane isn't going to be used for some time. For small planes this happens after every flight unless it's a short stop. Big airliners are rarely out of service for very long between flights, so no need to cover anything up at least not if it's stuck waiting at the gate.

Engine inlets are also covered, and I know the engines are covered on large jets as well. Basically anything where insects (and birds in large engines) can establish a new home base will be covered to prevent such occurrences to happen.

After sitting for a long duration, a plane would be checked out by a mechanic to make sure it's good to go. I would assume that engines would be inspected and tested on ground prior to flight to make sure there are no leaks and that all readings look good. The plane would be inspected for leaks of both hydraulic systems and fuel. If the batteries have not been kept charged they would likely have to be replaced or at the very least tested. Corrosion is another concern that would surely be looked at. Lubrication of anything that needs it. Tire inspections, break inspections. Make sure everything that should move does, and that everything that shouldn't move doesn't (no duct tape or WD40 allowed ?).

Basically a complete airworthiness check. Hopefully the planes are also taken on a test flight sans passengers prior to being taken back into regular service.

Many of these items are part of the regular preflight checklist done before every flight. Engines can of course not be tested completely before every flight, but a short test is part of every takeoff. The engines are spooled up to about 40% N1 (N1 is the speed of the fan on a turbofan engine) for a short while before being advanced to takeoff thrust to check that the readings look normal and that all engines perform similarly for symmetrical thrust.

Thanks. Very Informative Did you edit this?
Surely i didn't gloss over a post in order to get my own thoughts into the Forum

As Ringopizza said, if these measures are to be taken, Boeing has some work on their hands.
I cant see them going Broke any time soon though. They are practically a government institution.
And Airbus can't fill the gap even if they want to.

I was watching a doco on about the Old Molten Salt, Thorium Reactor up at Oak Ridge and Boeing's name came up
a few times, along with General Electric (of course).
I wonder if Thorium advocates know just How much Radiation that Bad boy released into the Area, and to it's workers.
But..it was the 50's I guess.

Airplane Mechanics, No WD-40 & Duct Tape?
Do they use Super Glue, and Zip Ties instead?

 

[FormerMember06292019_2]

This wikipedia entry is a good start for reading about aircraft storage en masse. The AMARC stores many, many aircraft. Some can be returned to flying status in very short order. I've taken a few C-130E and H1s there for their long sleep. Those will probably never fly again.

TL;DR, long term storage with the intent to re-fly is a process of significant initial effort spent with subsequent and routine follow-ups over time. It's not a big deal given the resources.

Now somebody explain to me how to store these Mavic batteries!