Battery explosion, house nearly burnt down

EpicFlight · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
I've been dealing with lipo batteries since the beginning of their use in RC. I hate how this "intelligent batteries" work. They have a chip doing all the work that WE should be doing with a real battery charger. Not knowing the charge rate, cell voltage, capacity and cell RESISTACE when charging a lipo battery sounds to me almost surrealistic. If you can check all those parameters during charging, you'll never be able to detect any battery damage before things like this happen.

Are you distrustful of automatic transmissions? Seems an apt comparison. And they fail too.

The engineering in DJI Intelligent Batteries is very good. This is clear by the exceedingly rare catastrophe. All those things you say WE should be doing the BMS in DJI's batteries does it better and results in a significantly higher degree of safety.

I'd always rather have a well designed, proven reliable BMS take care of charging and balancing a lipo pack over 1-2 hours than a person. Unlike even the most experienced and knowledgeable human being, DJI batteries don't get distracted, have to go to the bathroom, get bored, multi-task, and many other unfixable problems that people have.

Yaros · May 15, 2022

Wow! I have seen hundreds of people reporting regular LiPo batteries doing this, but NEVER a DJI Battery!
Contact DJI immediately and tell them what happened!
Of course, you should always inspect your batteries for any damage or swelling.

To be honest, I have left both regular and DJI LiPos charging unattended at my own risk and experienced no issues (luckily). And I also have charged DJI batteries overnight (I still do that regularly), however I do not recommend doing this, always check on your batteries when they are charging.

Faster · May 15, 2022

EpicFlight said:
Are you distrustful of automatic transmissions? Seems an apt comparison. And they fail too.

The engineering in DJI Intelligent Batteries is very good. This is clear by the exceedingly rare catastrophe. All those things you say WE should be doing the BMS in DJI's batteries does it better and results in a significantly higher degree of safety.

I'd always rather have a well designed, proven reliable BMS take care of charging and balancing a lipo pack over 1-2 hours. Unlike even the most experienced and knowledgeable human being, DJI batteries don't get distracted, have to go to the bathroom, get bored, multi-task, and many other unfixable problems that people have.

Auto trannies are very easy to use and today's days are very reliable, but of course that I don't trust them as I trust my left foot on the clutch pedal!!!! Crazy statement. Ask any F1, NASCAR, INDI pilot that? Technology always help, no doubt, but man intelligence goes first.

EpicFlight · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
Auto trannies are very easy to use and today's days are very reliable, but of course that I don't trust them as I trust my left foot on the clutch pedal!!!! Crazy statement. Ask any F1, NASCAR, INDI pilot that? Technology always help, no doubt, but man intelligence goes first.

That's foolish.

Let's see you fly a Quad without a flight controller, but 4 throttle sticks instead. Good luck.

The reason humankind has advanced to where we are is because our intelligence has made it possible to design and construct artifacts that enable us to do things we are physically and mentally incapable of.

You trust the vast vast vast majority of this technology. Your mistrust of automatic transmissions and lipo BMS systems strikes me as irrational and selective. Do you refuse to trust the answers you get on calculators?

I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Present the data that's convinced you, rationally, that experienced, expert humans managing charging have a lower catastrophic failure rate than DJI Intelligent Batteries.

I'm skeptical.

Finally, if you're using a balancer, and a charger that does CCCV lipo profile charging then automatically cutting off at 4.2V, then you're fooling yourself that YOU are doing anything different, or in addition to what DJIs batteries are doing. You're not.

TheRock · May 15, 2022

I haven't hd this happen to my DJI batteries but I had a small battery for an underwater light just go up while sitting on a hotel bed. I managed to get it brushed off the bed and onto a tile floor. But the speed of ignition and intensity of these fires is downright scary. (this was a 3400mAH 3.7V, 12.6Wh Li'ion rechargeable). Plus, the chemical smell makes you worry about lung damage. It definitely pays to take cautionary steps with these things.

Barbara · May 15, 2022

XcYZ, glad to hear there were no injuries or damage as a result of the fire.

I've seen batteries being tested in the Lab where I used to work. Failures could be spectacular. Battery safety was impressed upon us as a matter of course.

I wouldn't trust myself to charge LiPos manually. Automated chargers are the only way to go, be they a smart battery or a smart charger. And yes, they can fail.

Personally, I charge my batteries in an ammo can, lid partially closed, with the can on a ceramic floor, or tile, away from walls or any other flammable surface. Once charged they are removed from the charger and stored in battery bags, again on ceramic tiles.

Faster · May 15, 2022

EpicFlight said:
That's foolish.

Let's see you fly a Quad without a flight controller, but 4 throttle sticks instead. Good luck.

The reason humankind has advanced to where we are is because our intelligence has made it possible to design and construct artifacts that enable us to do things we are physically and mentally incapable of.

You trust the vast vast vast majority of this technology. Your mistrust of automatic transmissions and lipo BMS systems strikes me as irrational and selective. Do you refuse to trust the answers you get on calculators?

I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Present the data that's convinced you, rationally, that experienced, expert humans managing charging have a lower catastrophic failure rate than DJI Intelligent Batteries.

I'm skeptical.

Finally, if you're using a balancer, and a charger that does CCCV lipo profile charging then automatically cutting off at 4.2V, then you're fooling yourself that YOU are doing anything different, or in addition to what DJIs batteries are doing. You're not.

You are an engineer, I'm a Medical Doctor. Technology helps us every day and always be glad for it. New horizons of treatments and diagnostics that were unimaginable yesterday are real today thanks to technology. This statemen also applies to other aspects of our lives. But if for any reason there is a discrepancy between what a machine (of any kind) says and what I'm able to interpret using my five senses, my knowledge and experience, you have no doubt that I will distrust what the machine says and will follow my reasoning and capabilities. Human capabilities CAN"T be supplemented by machines, reason why we still have F1 pilots, presidents, engineers like you, doctors, teachers, etc.
I trust DJI technology, I use their drones, but I trust myself better.

Barbara · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
You are an engineer, I'm a Medical Doctor. Technology helps us every day and always be glad for it. New horizons of treatments and diagnostics that were unimaginable yesterday are real today thanks to technology. This statemen also applies to other aspects of our lives. But if for any reason there is a discrepancy between what a machine (of any kind) says and what I'm able to interpret using my five senses, my knowledge and experience, you have no doubt that I will distrust what the machine says and will follow my reasoning and capabilities. Human capabilities CAN"T be supplemented by machines, reason why we still have F1 pilots, presidents, engineers like you, doctors, teachers, etc.
I trust DJI technology, I use their drones, but I trust myself better.

Hmmm, you ever tried flying an airplane through cloud by the seat of your pants? Myself, I'll trust the tech.

I think a generalization is a tricky thing.

Faster · May 15, 2022

Barbara said:
Hmmm, you ever tried flying an airplane through cloud by the seat of your pants? Myself, I'll trust the tech.

I think a generalization is a tricky thing.

I'll trust the pilot following the tech, don't you? Trust the human being, capable and prepared to follow the tech. Human first, machine after. It's simple.

bcfd29 · May 15, 2022

Torque said:
I also charge in the kitchen near the sink. Water is useless on these, but I can push/dump the tray into the sink and cover it if there is a fire.
This is a good reminder of the potential damage these batteries can do, but I think this is the first smart battery I've heard about igniting.
I fly RC planes with the lipo batteries that are basically a rectangular bag of gel. When they get puffy I dispose of them buy clipping the wires and immersing them in a bucket of salt water on my patio for a week or so - until they stop emitting bubbles. Not sure if this can be done with DJI batteries?

water is NOT useless, they need to be fully submerged and covered with several inches, preferable in a bucket or other portable container. a LIPO battery of the size used in our UAV's does not have that much LI in it; it is NOT the same as the science experiment where someone dumps a chunk of LI metal into a beaker and it explodes. WATER WORKS! It is the recommended extinguishing agent for larger LIPO arrays such as those found in vehicles or residential and commercial solar/inverter systems.

EricJT · May 15, 2022

I charge my M2P batteries in a 2" deep metal baking tray to which I added legs to have the bottom raised off the granite countertop. I typically am in the same room working on something else.

Faster · May 15, 2022

Best extinguisher for Lipos is an ABC Fire Extinguisher, I always have ABC Fire extinguisher near my Lipo batteries, When my Lipos are used, charged or storaged I always have one ABC extinguisher near . Where my lipos go, one ABC extinguisher goes with them.

Barbara · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
I'll trust the pilot following the tech, don't you? Trust the human being, capable and prepared to follow the tech. Human first, machine after. It's simple.

Not sure what you're saying.

The point I was trying to make is that the pilot, under the conditions stated, has to trust the technology, not their senses.

Faster · May 15, 2022

Barbara said:
Not sure what you're saying.

The point I was trying to make is that the pilot, under the conditions stated, has to trust the technology, not their senses.

No, that's an error. He does not trust technology, he trusts him. The pilot will trust his experience/knowledge/ capacity and sense about what to do or not, If that includes technology, he'll do it. Why is he a pilot? Sit a 5 years old kid on the cockpit and that's it. Why not? If says red push red, if says blue push blue, wonderful!!

Sherifftruman · May 15, 2022

Cymruflyer said:
When I experience the swelling batteries, they remained swollen, I put them aside. They stayed swollen for several months. DJI did not want them returned to them, so I kept them in our detached garage. One day I found someone who bought swollen batteries for a few dollars. When I went to get them to sell, all 3 had returned to their original flat state, so they looked like they were fine again. Now I would be concerned buying a used battery that was flat, after seeing how mine went.

Had the exact same thing happen with an original Mavic Air battery. Swelled up and I left it out in an empty spot in the garage away from anything and a month or two later it looked totally fine.

EpicFlight · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
You are an engineer, I'm a Medical Doctor. Technology helps us every day and always be glad for it. New horizons of treatments and diagnostics that were unimaginable yesterday are real today thanks to technology. This statemen also applies to other aspects of our lives. But if for any reason there is a discrepancy between what a machine (of any kind) says and what I'm able to interpret using my five senses, my knowledge and experience, you have no doubt that I will distrust what the machine says and will follow my reasoning and capabilities.

Of course! Not because you have an inherent mistrust of the technology, but because of an anomalous condition that caused you to suspect the technology was not working properly. That's very different than mistrusting generally, say, an arthroscope and refusing to use it because you can do it better with a scalpel and your hands? No you can't

And this same question for you: Do you use a calculator? Do you trust the answers it gives you? Why?

Faster said:
Human capabilities CAN"T be supplemented by machines, reason why we still have F1 pilots, presidents, engineers like you, doctors, teachers, etc.
I trust DJI technology, I use their drones, but I trust myself better.

Oh, I disagree strongly. Supplementing human capabilities is EXACTLY what technology is all about. I note that the F22 pilot utterly fails at flying no matter how hard he flaps his arms. In order to fly, his capabilities must be supplemented (greatly) in order to tear around the skies.

I can't see miles away with my own eyes, but I can, supplemented with a drone, which can add to my vision capabilities extraordinarily.

EpicFlight · May 15, 2022

Faster said:
I'll trust the pilot following the tech, don't you? Trust the human being, capable and prepared to follow the tech. Human first, machine after. It's simple.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring the fact the pilot is trusting the tech.

Of course, something can go wrong with the tech, the pilot detects it, and responds. This doesn't say anything about how trusting they were in their altimeter before it failed.

Indeed, I would trust a properly working altimeter more (much) to give me our altitude than the best estimate of the pilot.

Faster · May 15, 2022

EpicFlight said:
Of course! Not because you have an inherent mistrust of the technology, but because of an anomalous condition that caused you to suspect the technology was not working properly. That's very different than mistrusting generally, say, an arthroscope and refusing to use it because you can do it better with a scalpel and your hands? No you can't

And this same question for you: Do you use a calculator? Do you trust the answers it gives you? Why?

Oh, I disagree strongly. Supplementing human capabilities is EXACTLY what technology is all about. I note that the F22 pilot utterly fails at flying no matter how hard he flaps his arms. In order to fly, his capabilities must be supplemented (greatly) in order to tear around the skies.

I can't see miles away with my own eyes, but I can, supplemented with a drone, which can add to my vision capabilities extraordinarily.

Human capabilities could be supplemented by technology, of course! and they are all welcomed, but the capacity of interpret, analyze and discern about something is only human, at the end is you who make the decisions, you and only you who's responsible for any error could happen. The F22 pilot could fly because humans were able to make a F22, We didn't want to flap our arms to fly, we made it for not doing so! We've been able to get out from the caverns, made tribes, construct cities, made countries, build the world we all know today. We build technology to be truth worthy but only we decided if it is or not.
I'm not arguing at all how important and beneficial has been Technoloy to human kind. Would be stupid from my part saying so. My whole point is that when you are capable, studious and responsible, you should be more than capable to charge your Lipo battery. If you are helped by technology, great, but why being substituted? I trust you more or any other reputable member of this forum to get an answer of any doubt I'll have about droning that whatever the Fly app tell me. I'm wrong?