Battery Safety.......??

[Crow Horse]

What are your thoughts about using a 50 caliber ammo can with the gasket removed in conjunction with small LiPo bags for each battery?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Whatever storage is used, it’s probably best to seperate batteries from each other as much as possible.
If one goes and in close proximity to others, there’s a very strong chance thermal runaway will see them all go up.

Perhaps lipo bag for each in an ammo case or small fireproof safe would be ok.

 

[JMC3]

What are your thoughts about using a 50 caliber ammo can with the gasket removed in conjunction with small LiPo bags for each battery?

If your concern is safety I would leave the gasket in the can to prevent air from coming in. most materials need air to combust.

 

[Crow Horse]

If your concern is safety I would leave the gasket in the can to prevent air from coming in. most materials need air to combust.

Leaving in the gasket would effectively allow the ammo can to become pressurized and potentially become a bomb. I don't know at what point the gasket or the metal shell will fail but don't want to find out.......

 

[Rojan]

I am a Senior Engineer for a well known global product safety group. Within my expertise is the use of batteries in a wide range of equipment types including ITE, industrial, etc.
lithium electrolyte batteries of any kind are potentially hazardous- the amount of energy stored in a relatively small package is enormous ( a coin or button cell can potentially explode and cause extensive damage over an area you wouldn’t believe!).
Another problem is fire and yes, if a lithium battery does catch fire it’s difficult to extinguish-water, CO2, foam and dry powder won’t work, there are special extinguishing agents for “metal fires”.
Water vcan help to cool containers and nearby infrastructure but in large installations the best advice is often to keep everything nearby cool if possible and allow it to burn out
All lithium batteries must have a fire enclosure or be installed inside a fire enclosure (there is a power limit but it’s very low and anything for powering a drone etc will be well above that limit!). The fire enclosure limits the spread of fire but for large installations I have no idea if there is a ‘rule’ other than ensuring the building housing them is made of non-combustible materials. The fumes emitted by burning lithium are toxic, but I don’t see a lot about controlling these, the emphasis in smaller battery packs is to prevent fire and explosion.

Best advice if you get an overheating battery is to leave it alone, get well away and call your local fire service. It’s safe to drop it into a bucket of water to try and cool it or limit the spread of fire, but it won’t stop it from burning. Don’t take risks, stay well away!!
Battery packs should have built in safety devices to reduce the risk of external faults causing a man overload but a lot of spurious batteries aren’t certified and many just aren’t safe.
This also applies to NiMH batteries, they are potentially as hazardous as lithium but have a lower power density so they tend to be less of a problem in the real world but they still need treating with respect.

 

[Rojan]

If your concern is safety I would leave the gasket in the can to prevent air from coming in. most materials need air to combust.

Sadly not true, lithium is oxygen-rich, it doesn’t need an external air supply. All you can do is cool the battery If it starts to overheat.
A military grade ammo can is a pretty good storage but put enough battery packs together in there and there’s a possibility it will create a bomb! I think a bag is better, it can help contain a fire but will vent, I don’t know if taking the gasket of the can will be enough.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I am a Senior Engineer for a well known global product safety group. Within my expertise is the use of batteries in a wide range of equipment types including ITE, industrial, etc.

Thanks for coming by with those comments and pointers @Rojan

 

[Crow Horse]

Sadly not true, lithium is oxygen-rich, it doesn’t need an external air supply. All you can do is cool the battery If it starts to overheat.
A military grade ammo can is a pretty good storage but put enough battery packs together in there and there’s a possibility it will create a bomb! I think a bag is better, it can help contain a fire but will vent, I don’t know if taking the gasket of the can will be enough.

Thank you!!!!! This is precisely what I was looking for: a definitive answer from an expert in the field. Based on what you've shared, containment is pretty much the only thing we can do. I think I'll go with a gasketless ammo can and add additional venting in the top. I'll also store batteries in LiPo bags individually inside the ammo can. Maybe even use cement board dividers to further separate the batteries. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge!

 

[stuka75]

Yes, that's one of the threads I read through. The trouble is there is nothing definitive about the extinguishing procedure. What's presented is too ambiguous.

The smoke emitted by such a fire is another significant hazard.

Any firefighters out there with knowledge on this subject? It can't be sequestered too deep because we have the issue of the Chevy Bolts having a defect that causes fires.

I used extinguisher rated for chemical fires, home type. Worked fine on a lipo fire when I brainlessly charged a 3 s pack at 4 s.. Resultant fire was in basement and impressive! Cover with sand works as well. Again smothers the fire. Lipos combust when abused somehow, not spontaneously. Lion, I'm not experienced.