California officials used drones to track addresses allegedly tied to fireworks

[mavic3usa]

It appears we may finally get to adjudicate the *usage* of drones by the government under legal scrutiny in terms of enforcement in front of a court at the state/local level. Perhaps something like this will attract the attention of the bigger organizations such as the ACLU and The Institute for Justice. We've already touched on the drone's relationship to the first amendment and surveillance and privacy and similar but how about the proper usage of a drone in enforcing the law and the penalties assessed?

Leave it to Cali, the people there voted for this nonsense even though they were told the drones are needed to show up as a first responder on the scene to render aid, and to record crimes in progress for evidence and now they are about to find out. It didn't take long for the government to figure out how to turn those drones against the citizens and violate their rights. No one can say they didn't see this coming. This has to be record in terms of time and how long after it is said "We don't use these drones for anything else...." until someone figured it out that a drone is priceless when it comes to revenue collection, spying, and collect data against anyone.

Let's see what happens here, watch the video or read the article and next time your local police department tells you they need drones so they can respond more quickly, handle the low-level crimes with ease, and back-up officers for officer safety and they want 50 drones pre-positioned in a dozen fixed sites around your city, and drones don't patrol they are dispatched on 911 calls only, think about making sure you set the limits and the guard rails on what you think those drones should be used for. Personally, I think it's as easy as "follow the law, obey the Constitution" and that's a good place to start before you dive into transparency and data retention because let's be honest, the taxpayers are going to pay for those drones, it's inevitable. Our job is to keep the drones and the operators under control so you don't get burned by the predictable and eventual abuse that is inevitable especially when you partner with predatory and aggressive 3rd party private contractors. While this isn't exactly a "drone" case, it should wake people up in terms of capabilities and possibilities. You don't want rogue government law enforcement drones unleashed in your community, only bad things will happen.

Drone Surveillance Nets $300,000 Fine For California Homeowner Who Says He “Wasn’t Even Home”

A California homeowner faces a staggering $300,000 fine after a city drone recorded illegal fireworks at his property on July 4th—even though he insists he

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[Cafguy]

They have been using them in Bakersfield for years now. They have 8. If the Drone caught you...Suck it up and pay the fine..You got caught!

 

[anotherlab]

The issue is not with the use of the drones, but the ordinance itself. A cell phone picture could also be used as evidence.

In Stanton, if evidence (drone, camera, physical evidence) can show that fireworks were discharged from a property, the property owner, property manager, or tenants are liable.

The article where the owner says he wasn't home also mentions that the owner said he was in the backyard. If you have that many fireworks going off at your home and you didn't do it, then call the police. How do you not notice 300 fireworks going off?

 

[Cafguy]

The issue is not with the use of the drones, but the ordinance itself. A cell phone picture could also be used as evidence.

In Stanton, if evidence (drone, camera, physical evidence) can show that fireworks were discharged from a property, the property owner, property manager, or tenants are liable.

The article where the owner says he wasn't home also mentions that the owner said he was in the backyard. If you have that many fireworks going off at your home and you didn't do it, then call the police. How do you not notice 300 fireworks going off?

Yep and almost every time that Drone video has the owner standing there watching the whole thing OR lighting the fireworks.

 

[mavic3usa]

... While this isn't exactly a "drone" case.....

The issue is not with the use of the drones, ...

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Meta4]

You don't want rogue government law enforcement drones unleashed in your community, only bad things will happen.

You don't want law enforcement in your community or for them to use the best tools for their job.
Only bad things will happen ???

 

[Cafguy]

Honestly Its fine with me UNLESS they put biometric cameras on them Then I will protest while I move to the country. lol.

 

[anotherlab]

Thanks for agreeing with me.

In a state that appears to be made entirely out of kindling, and after years of one wildfire after another, it's hard to find sympathy for people illegally setting off fireworks.

You can't set off 300 fireworks all at once, not without burning down your house. Why didn't the police send a car out when they saw what was going on? The mayor said that it happened over a period of three hours. It doesn't take that long to send a squad car.

 

[mavic3usa]

You don't want law enforcement in your community or for them to use the best tools for their job.
Only bad things will happen ???

I think I made it clear in my opening post what I am FOR and what I am AGAINST.

We can bicker and quibble about nothing using weasel words or you can discuss this from a legal standpoint (which was the intent of my thread). Something tells me you will chose the former.

I want my government to follow the law and the US Constitution *over* the best tools for the job. The best tools for the job comes second.

 

[mavic3usa]

Honestly Its fine with me UNLESS they put biometric cameras on them Then I will protest while I move to the country. lol.

I think I made it clear I'm not fine with allowing a 3rd party contractor abuse the equipment and the citizens.

Plus, I'm not completely fine with it because I believe it is in conflict with several laws and the Constitution.

BTW, I hate crime.

 

[mavic3usa]

In a state that appears to be made entirely out of kindling, and after years of one wildfire after another, it's hard to find sympathy for people illegally setting off fireworks.

You can't set off 300 fireworks all at once, not without burning down your house. Why didn't the police send a car out when they saw what was going on? The mayor said that it happened over a period of three hours. It doesn't take that long to send a squad car.

I hate wildfires and the destruction of personal property as much as the next guy. What I hate more is abusing the law and the Constitution using the government. If you have a problem, find a legal way to fix it. If you don't know how to legally fix it, ask me....I'll figure it out for you. You might not like it because it my solution involves obeying the Constitution and I know how much *some* people in Cali don't like that.

No one sent a patrol car out there because they allowed *their* drones (not the People's drones) to collect the maximum amount of money they could as long as and up until they thought it was going to get out of hand (which apparently it never did). They abused those citizens. They fleeced them and shook them down, plain and simple. for all we know, the 3rd party contractor was standing right there instructing the city manager or the chief(s) to not respond. We'll never know because there's no transparency.

 

[Cafguy]

Why didn't the police send a car out when they saw what was going on?

I hate to say this about the State I moved too but To answer your question. Ineptness, Lack of skilled leadership, Less funding Year after Year as the Crime rate Climbs.
Frankly, this has been going on unhindered for some time now and what we have ended up with is a sort of a "Gommorrah" State on the west coast where crime runs rampant and if caught you are simply sent on your way.

Until last year The act of shoplifting in this state was legal! I dont mean it wasnt against the law, I mean.... The cops aint comin! and the only way they would is if you tried to stop the shoplifter, Then they would come and arrest you for detainig or kidnapping someone for a non violent crime and send the thief on their way with a ticket.
A store owner down the street from us closed his doors and moved to Arizona because of this. He actually wheeled the stuff he couldnt offload into the parking lot and told the homeless to have at it and Drove off!
If you Call 911 in Bakersfield they will send a policemen.....In about 8-12 hours!! Unless you are killing someone or being killed over the 911 call, you are on your own! Don't get me wrong its not that their not busy, its just they Don't seem to be able to realize that their job is public safety, Not just racing around to other calls..and speaking of that... IF You do something crazy enough to get the police to your home. You will get them alright, Almost all of them! and some Drones, and the Chopper, and the little bulldozer with the gunbox on the Front..etc,

 

[AMann]

I love it, law enforcement can finally start to control the annual aerial wars. People aren’t celebrating the 4th of July anymore when they do that, they are just playing with bigger and louder sky bombs for fun. I get it, they’re exciting and cool and all, but not when you cause a fire that burns down your neighborhood, and upsets sensitive people who may have PTSD or other loud noise anxieties living around you.

I was really surprised how well flying my Mavic decked out with lights around the neighborhood worked that night to quell the fireworks when dummies were shooting them off. It was a great way to return peace and quiet to our neighborhood.

 

[mavic3usa]

I love it, law enforcement can finally start to control the annual aerial wars. People aren’t celebrating the 4th of July anymore when they do that, they are just playing with bigger and louder sky bombs for fun. I get it, they’re exciting and cool and all, but not when you cause a fire that burns down your neighborhood, and upsets sensitive people who may have PTSD or other loud noise anxieties living around you.

I was really surprised how well flying my Mavic decked out with lights around the neighborhood worked that night to quell the fireworks when dummies were shooting them off. It was a great way to return peace and quiet to our neighborhood.

Maybe that's what the government should do is fly those drones around the neighborhood all night and keep the peace. Use the least amount of force necessary to get the job done, do that. Much better than going too far and violating rights. However, that makes no sense since it doesn't raise money. No one is going to spend time and money and batteries keeping the peace. If you can't make a lot of money off it, no one wants to waste their time because, while I agree with you, nobody actually cares about "upsetting sensitive people, etc." Nobody really cares about what that, not even the government. What they care about is mistreating the citizens, using excessive force, punishing people, sending a message, taking advantage of the marginalized. Do they fly those drones in BH or OC? Mr Mann they will tell you "good idea but your plan won't work. People don't respond useless you use a heavy hand with swift and decisive punishment. No we haven't tried it before but we don't allow the inmate to run the asylum." That's the excuse. Yet we don't have a fireworks problem around here where I live and we have no fire problems. If my government even talked about flying drone and collecting fines in the hundreds of thousands, you would be laughed out of office. That's the difference between my state and Cali.

 

[Cafguy]

If your Government starts using them for fireworks it wont be long till code enforcement starts getting jealous.
Don't Forget State Farm who will fly around your city from time to time with a drone to check their policy holders. then theres your electric company, checking lines while dodging the Amazon drone doing a juicy flick over the pizza delivery Drone as it brings the latest must have Stanley cup to your Neighbor. I would thank goodness that at the moment theres only one Drone above you!

 

[mavic3usa]

If your Government starts using them for fireworks it wont be long till code enforcement starts getting jealous.
Don't Forget State Farm who will fly around your city from time to time with a drone to check their policy holders. then theres your electric company, checking lines while dodging the Amazon drone doing a juicy flick over the pizza delivery Drone as it brings the latest must have Stanley cup to your Neighbor. I would thank goodness that at the moment theres only one Drone above you!

Private companies using drones is an entirely different manner. It won't be long until those Cali governments start to include jail time in lieu of or additional to those fines once they realize the citizens are never going to pay those excessive fines. Either the city will make a deal with the victims so they can keep their scheme going or they'll go to court and lose but contractors will still get paid because the contract is set to fleece the taxpayers regardless the outcome. When the contractors can't make enough money to stay in business they'll pack up and leave to go elsewhere (like Colorado; it's always the same group of states) to see what they can do just like the Flock cameras hustle. First it's fireworks then it's parking then license plates then warrants....

 

[Kilrah]

I want my government to follow the law and the US Constitution *over* the best tools for the job. The best tools for the job comes second.

In that example in the OP it looks like the government/police both enforced a reasonable law and did so with the tool that was most effective at doing so.
So what's your point? That having the ability to do the right thing means the wrong thing could be done too? If so you don't need drones for that.